[SCTS Modding Project] : Discussion

[Aqo]

So here is the thing, if we want to make a mod, it must stand out somehow, and be unique and fun.
What should we do?

Anyone up with ideas?

Here's what I think we can do; a game of Undead VS the living. scrap one of the races, and convert one of the two left into an army on Undead minions and their leaders, while the other race will be made of peasents, knights, medival stuff like that.

This will include a graphical conversion of many units, and lots of general modification, along with lots of balance tests. I suggest we do not use Memgraft, so that this can be playable online.

Like the idea? Yes? No? Post your own ideas if you want, and disucss the ones already suggested. We should already start working on a project by Saturday.

---

Memgraft poll: Should memgraft be used in the initial release of the mod? No, it won't be used.

Yes - (0 votes)
No - (4 votes)++

[Holocaust]

That sounds like a good idea, Undead V Humans, medieval style, sorta like Humans V Orcs in the first and second WC.

I be the first to offer up unit names and their roles, I'm also wondering if we could use a bit of Mythology with this mod

Humans (The terrans would be fitting)
--------------------

Human Miner
Peon/Worker

Human Swordsman
Basic Melee Infantry

Human Archer
Basic Ranged Support Infantry

Human Priest/Holy Missionary
Ranged Support Spellcaster?

Human Cavalry
Melee Assault Infantry

Human Trebuchet
Ranged Siege Unit

Human Battering Ram
Melee Siege Unit

Human Boltslayer
Ranged Ground Support/Anti Air

Human Scout Falcon
Perma-Invis Scout/Detector

Human Griffin
Basic Melee Air Unit

Human Phoenix
Heavy Ranged Air Support Unit

I be updating this with stats and abilities later

BTW, Aqo, what font is that?
The font you used for your sig?

[Aqo]

Hmm... well, if you start adding greek myth creatures it loses the focus of Human VS Zombie, but it might make it quite more interesting. W'll see about that.

As for the naming, good start, but may I suggest some changes?

Instead of Villager, Miner. After all all it's gonna do is mine some resources, so it makes more sense.
Archerist is not a real word like you said :P, Archer or bowman should do.
Assassin is mainly related to African culture, while undead (with mummies as an exeption) are mainly mythed to be around Europe. How about, instead of covert ops, a a holy missioners or something? Special priest peeps that came from afar yet not from too far to help fight the creeping death.

---

The font I used is Backslash.

---

Anyone who's reading this, if you also like the idea, start suggesting unit looks. I don't expect any of you to be an artist, just type descriptions. Like, for example, should Archers wear a robe or not? Should they use short or long bows? Should they have a hood? Should they have long or short sleeves? What colors are their clothing? Where on their clothing/items should the team color be located? Etc.
Or google images that you believe can be good and put them here.

[Hawthorne]

I'm gonna ask a sidequestion conserning something else. Can you od the mod in such a way that we can use other letters except for latin ones. Cus if we could od that & add asian, cyrillic and other languages it would be a MAJOR plus for the mod.

[Aqo]

I'm not sure what you mean Hawthorne, would you like some of the TBL strings in the mod to be written in other languages then English? What for...?

[Hawthorne]

No, I mean like the names of every unit the text, explanations and so on, could they be in other typer of characters/letters. Because StarCraft currently only allows the use of latin in-game, so if we could somehow shift this and if we could use cyrillic, asian letters ( chinese, japanese, korean and so on ) and so on translate it, we could modify everything ( somehow ) to give the player an option at the beginning for a language, the more languages a map is in, the more people would play it. I'm not so sure how you can trigger the names of units to be changed in-game but Isomebody would have some ideas about it.

[Aqo]

Oh... well, we can simply release several *.exe files with a different TBL in each. SC already have TBLs for different languages, so I believe it should be possible for us to release translated versions.

[Holocaust]

New languages?
That'd be interesting

Well, for the whole look appeal, I be researching medieval clothing/armour styles for the Humans, and for Undead, well we all know what zombies look like ;)

[Sikawtic]

I have a greek+nord mythology book if we go that way with the humans ^_^

I'm here for just ideas on this mod, I don't plan on jumping back into modding until FG is done ^^

[Hawthorne]

If we're going to have mythology with humans, we should add it with the zombies as well. Nord mthology has it's evil gods, Loki, we could add all other evil variations of the devil and so on. And btw can we modify any terrains? Because it would be nice to change some terrains like the Ash one and the Desert one a little bit. Like Desrt into fertile land and Ash one into a more kind of lava theme and fire?

[Sikawtic]

I'm not sure if those are harcoded or not.

I do know, however, that I want the font used in Aqo's sig.

[Aqo]

We can change terrains, it's rather easy actually, but I suggest we do not do it on our first project.

What I mean is, terrains are big. Very. So if a basic mod is 100kb~, and a graphic mod is 4m~, a terrain modif' mod is 20m+. That's if only one terrain was modified.
If the file is too big, people won't want to download it.

[Hawthorne]

We can try it in a later modification.

[Sikawtic]

We could also do different versions...

If we add music, we'll probably want one without that too.

so maybe a "Mod" "Mod lite (without music)" and "Mod deluxe (contains both music and new terrain" ? :P

[Hawthorne]

And we'll certaibly have to add custom unit speeches, or maybe we can borrow some from Warcraft?

[Aqo]

That mod deluxe thing will be like 500mb, you really think people will download it?

[Holocaust]

500 mb+....
If I was still on dial-up.....

Maybe for now, we could just stick with GRP, script and data editing.
If every unit from the human and undead races has a custom grp, that might all add up to...around 5-8 mb?

[Hawthorne]

Why not? I download mods for Diablo II all the timne, that are over 600 mb, and they're very popular. I don't see a reason why not. The fact is, some people are bored of StarCraft and they want a different kind fo StarCraft that can be played online with other people. Why deny them that right?

[Holocaust]

Yeah, but what about for dial-up users?
If the mods submitted on SC.org were 200 mb+, I would have never gotten to downloaded it fast enough to avoid disconnection, and thus never got into modding

Hell, even the Zeji mod, being around 50 mb was too excessive back then for me.
I ended dling it anyway :D, but I waited for around 4 hours :|

[Hawthorne]

I live in a 2nd World Country, I know people in 3rd World Countries that have better internet connections than countries like France, Britain and so on. Dial-up connections are practically extinct in europe and large areas of asia, not so sure about USS though, main thing is, there might be cutbacks for dial-up users, but there are a lot of people that aren't dial-up out there.

[Sikawtic]

Deluxe wouldn't be readily availible to people with dial up. No question about it.

But most of the world is moving towards highspeed, so it would still get lots of DLs one would think.

[U-238]

500 MB isn't a problem on dail-up as long as you use a download manager. You won't get it in one sitting but you can get a little bit each time you dail-out. I've gotten many things that way when I was on dail-up.

The current idea is pretty good. I'm sure graphics won't be a problem since we've got aqo and I can do a few things as well. We arn't doing anything "heavy duty" are we? Because I havn't found any of my offsets yet. :P

And when we say "zombies" what kind of zombies are we talking about? The cute and cuddly kind that chant some crazy phrase that gets stuck in our heads? Or the kind like the flood from halo?

[Holocaust]

Lol o_O
I think it'd be like the WC kind of zombies, with Undead minions with their infernal masters that come to wipe humanity kinda undead

[U-238]

I suppose this means I'll have to get warcraft so I can see the base models doesn't it?

[Holocaust]

Google is the bud ;)

[MidnightGladius]

Ooh, cool! While the timeline isn't really in my taste, here are my ideas:

Human Spells:

Priest:
Curtain Of Light: Creates a large blur in the map (think observer cloak blur, but a lot larger) about the size of 2x2, and make it so that any Human unit under it receives very little damage, while Undead moving through it take heavy damage.
Heavenly Touch: A melee Holy Light from WC, basically.
Divine Beacon: Recall-esque, but uses a charge-up time and affects a larger area.

Skyseeker Mage (Aerial Caster) (all the normal SC races have one :P)
Rolling Thunder: Makes a loud noise (:)) and stuns everything in a cone-shaped area.
Cloud Dancing: Increases target air unit speed greatly. I don't know too much about Memgraft, but if that's not possible, then just make it increase speed.
Tornado: Think a faster version of War2's DK's Tornado. In case you didn't play War2, it creates an uncontrollable, randomly moving tornado that damages everything it touches and fades after some time.

Undead Spells:

Channeler:
Death Ripple: Creates a circle ripple around the Channeler that damages all Human units, and has no effect on Undead.
Clutch Of Undeath: A melee Death Coil from War3.
Descecrate: Enchants a 3x3 piece of terrain to cause damage to Humans standing on it. Lasts for maybe 10 seconds.

Wraith (Aerial Caster) (all the normal SC races have one :P)
Shadow Spawn: Creates 4 Shades, weak ground STS units.
Life Drain: Deals damage and heals itself.
Clasp Of Undeath: Targetted on Humans only, it removes it and creates an Undead equivalent under your control.

Thoughts?

[Aqo]

Sounds all good; let's see exactly what undeads we'll be using first, aight?

Skeletons and zombies are a given, wraiths and ghosts as easily airs, a lich would be cool - that can be the Channeler maybe?, also deathknights, because everyone loves dread riders lol
http://www.gamedonga.co.kr/images/pc_images_h/heroes3_DreadKnight.jpg
vampires should be in, too. Maybe flesh golems as well, and some sort of walking dead necromancers?

There should be a draft on this.

SCV ->
Marine ->
Firebat ->
Ghost ->
Medic ->
Vulture ->
Siege Tank ->
Goliath ->
Wraith ->
Dropship ->
Science Vessel ->
Battlecruiser ->
Valkyrie ->

Probe ->
Zealot ->
Dragoon ->
High Templar ->
Dark Templar ->
Shuttle ->
Reaver ->
Observer ->
Scout ->
Corsair ->
Carrier ->
Arbiter ->

And fill what unit becomes what. We don't have to use all units, obviously.

- But before that, are we gonna be using memgraft or not? Using it would give many new options, but it would then limit the mod to single player. It would be much better if this could be played online on bnet.
To avoid confusion, my first post in the thread said "let's do use memgraft" I meant to post "let's do not use memgraft".

So, what goes? We can always make this w/o memgraft and then improve it later when FG comes out, or do it with memgraft now for SP... ideas?


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Another thing is, I thought, maybe instead of giving the humans air units - which will make this feel too unrealistic in a WCtish manner, how about we give them ships? This will add a nice triggering work to the maps we'll release for this, and make it unique in a way, too.

[Hawthorne]

Hmmm, I like the idea about the shhips. For the deluxe version we could modify the water a little bit, so when a sip omes through it it leaves a trace and whatever and we should get a better coastline, so that waves kidna seem to splash on it. Another thing that would give it th Warcraft feeling is instead of our normal dark land ( explored ), we could add fog.

Ok, specific things for triggers we might want to do. I say we do like BWLauncher does, when you start playing online/sp with it, it has small text in corner, we can do something like that in the middle with the font from Aqo's signature.

Another thing, what about resources. We're clearly goig to have to modify that one. Any ideas?

[Holocaust]

eh? ._.
Ships?
If you're talking about airships, wouldn't that lose the medieval feel?
Unless we going medieval....with a twist

[Aqo]

Lol Holocaust, don't you know how to make air units restricted to water? It's only a few triggers.

[Holocaust]

@_@
Gah I didn't know that >_><_<

In that case, that'd be awesome.
But then you can't use them for maps with no patches of water :(
Unless...water units are restricted to maps that have those triggers? o_O

[Dark_Soul74]

Ooh, cool! While the timeline isn't really in my taste, here are my ideas:

Human Spells:

Priest:
Curtain Of Light: Creates a large blur in the map (think observer cloak blur, but a lot larger) about the size of 2x2, and make it so that any Human unit under it receives very little damage, while Undead moving through it take heavy damage. This could be a variation of psi storm, but we can't affect damage by team. :(
Heavenly Touch: A melee Holy Light from WC, basically. I don't remember any spells in SC that could do melee damage. However, it might be possible to rig it up with some iscript to do the spell, and something with the ability slots, but I'm not sure if there's a working 'graft program right now.
Divine Beacon: Recall-esque, but uses a charge-up time and affects a larger area. Area is hard-coded. :(

Skyseeker Mage (Aerial Caster) (all the normal SC races have one :P)
Rolling Thunder: Makes a loud noise (:)) and stuns everything in a cone-shaped area. Can't do it in a cone specifically, but we could redo the graphics from that Dark Archon ability that stuns. (I haven't played in a while...)
Cloud Dancing: Increases target air unit speed greatly. I don't know too much about Memgraft, but if that's not possible, then just make it increase speed. Can't increase speed of other units. :(
Tornado: Think a faster version of War2's DK's Tornado. In case you didn't play War2, it creates an uncontrollable, randomly moving tornado that damages everything it touches and fades after some time. This could be possible if we rig up some insane iscript, but it would be extremely hard to do.

Undead Spells:

Channeler:
Death Ripple: Creates a circle ripple around the Channeler that damages all Human units, and has no effect on Undead. Can't have team-specific damage.
Clutch Of Undeath: A melee Death Coil from War3. Same as Heavenly Touch(although you might be trying to mean that they heal team and hurt enemy, which is impossible to include)
Descecrate: Enchants a 3x3 piece of terrain to cause damage to Humans standing on it. Lasts for maybe 10 seconds. Psi storm variation?

Wraith (Aerial Caster) (all the normal SC races have one :P)
Shadow Spawn: Creates 4 Shades, weak ground STS units. Hallucination base?
Life Drain: Deals damage and heals itself. Variation on medic with an iscripted missile effect might work.
Clasp Of Undeath: Targetted on Humans only, it removes it and creates an Undead equivalent under your control. Remake of the Queen ability that does a similar effect... Would spawn two small undead by sacrificing one biological unit.

Thoughts?

I've included some comments, but you seem to forget that SC doesn't have an interface to create spell effects. Most things are hard coded, and rigging stuff together will only work if the engine permits it.

[Aqo]

But then you can't use them for maps with no patches of water :(
Unless...water units are restricted to maps that have those triggers? o_O
Of course water units are restricted to where the area restriction trigger system is, what did you expect?
In the other maps, we'll just not use water units. If someone plays melee... he'll get flying ships.

---

Thanks for the comments, DS. I guess it's agreed already that this will be the project, so I should start working on the graphics, while the rest of you can figure out the iscript.
However, everything currently discussed is still undecided and will (probably) be changed anyway.

---

How about we get the basics done first people? What units will there actually be?
We'll then decide what abilities and attributes each unit is gonna have, but first we need to decide what types of units are we gonna have, and where in the techtree will they appear.

Here is a basic T/T draft:
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5051/listsctsmy9.png

It still doesn't have all units in, and requires more changes, etc, so modify it and post an image with your modifications until we get a satisfying result.

Also, I still need an answer, will we use memgraft in the first release or not?
Just say yes or no on this thread and I'll gather all your votes and post a text-poll in post #1.
I vote no, due to the option to multiplayer.


---


Last but not the least. This mod needs a NAME! doh. I guess we could settle for a tempurary name like HvUD, but start suggesting names alongside your posts. In anyone thinks of anything interesting that fits well I'll add that into a list, and once there's at least 5 we'll start voting on which one to use.

[Fedaykin]

I have some more special ideas about your units and what should be possible at modding and if not modding with triggers. I would i.e. recommend some of your "miners" to use the trebuchet, so they are i.e. just doing nothing alone and need some "peons" to roll them and shoot them. For sure if you would like to do the miners be pure miners you could create another unit for it, some kind of machinist. would also be funny to make seamen so the ships do the dam based on how many and what units are in there, also trebuchet archer etc. Also make the shooting GFX based of what is in if possible (don't know if it is).

Most things are possible with triggers if not possible with modding.

Just some quick thoughts about it, more after Aqo did send me my triggers question.
;-)

[Sikawtic]

Change Missionary with Crusader.

Can we do the third species as Greek/Norse legends? I mean.. hydras... minotaurs... gorgons...

Cool stuff.

[Aqo]

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/121/skeletonbq3.png
Rawr I made a skeleton. :) Comments?

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As for hydras and gorgons, this gave me an idea... we'll have a 3rd unused race, right? So how about we use it for hostile creeps?

[Holocaust]

I, as well, vote no
LOL, nice skeleton

I don't know if the third race should be used as hostile creeps, wouldn't it be pretty strange to be able to play as them in melee?
It'd be more fitting for hostile creeps to be critters no?

The tech tree also looks good so far

[U-238]

Yea the tech tree looks fine thus far.

Nice bones. Are we going to add any scary flesh to them?

How about "Legends of the Undead" or something for a name? Or "Rifts of Doom"?

[MidnightGladius]

HoMM3 owns.

DS, some of that is indeed possible with only iscripting and DATing, and I thought we were memgrafting, too.

NO to memgrafting, though it would be nice to get some of the cooler spell effects going.

And names... are we doing a campaign? We should, to get the non-modders involved. Then, we could name it after something in the campaign. Thoughts?

[Holocaust]

A campaign you say?
Sounds like a plan

Names, Humanity's Plague?

I dono, randomly combining things to do with Humans and Undead :|

[Sikawtic]

Be and Aqo have been discussing the campaign over PMs already :P

I'll let him release any of the info he wnats... I'm too lazy atm.

[Aqo]

Yes, there's already a map that may possibely split into a campaign in discussion. I'll only release more info once this mod is running, though. For now, everyone focus on the mod part.

---

HoMM3 owns.
tru dat :D

Nice bones. Are we going to add any scary flesh to them?
This needs a discussion. People, ideas!
I was thinking more along the lines of armour, etc. But maybe we can combine both. And there's possibely more options.

Comments please!

I don't know if the third race should be used as hostile creeps, wouldn't it be pretty strange to be able to play as them in melee?
We should probably just disable the option to play this on melee, there's going to be too many trigger reliant things in it already. Maybe that way, if this can only be played in UMS, we'll be able to add many spells that would've otherwise only been possible with memgraft.

[Sikawtic]

I like the skelly btw, but I've for some armor and a lil more grunginess, blood/dirt etc.

[Sikawtic]

Oh and no memgraft plz.

[MidnightGladius]

http://www.archangelcastle.com/chateaux/necropole/necropole08.jpg

That kind of skeleton look good? XD

[Sikawtic]

More buffish armor

[Aqo]

I'm already working on the graphics, I'll start releasing GRPs once I believe I have somewhat solid material. For now, I want to hear (well, read) if everyone agree for the units and techtree. Don't just be lazy and say 'yes, I do', take a look and put some thinking into it, try to change things to make it more unique, etc, then post an image like I did with your final result.

Also, I'll keep using HoMM3 units as a reference for now. But I urge you people to google interesting variations of the units envolved (or buildings) to be used as a reference instead.

[U-238]

That kind of skeleton look good? XD

Too childish.

As for the tech tree it looks good. I'll grab a copy and work on maybe a different version tonight if I have the time.

[Dark_Soul74]

Additionally, we could make the expansion pack I was leading before the SCTS faded out. I've got leftover files, etc, that might be helpful if we choose to do that.

[MidnightGladius]

U238, from my limited experience doing 3D - very limited, indeed - I can say that doing blood/gore/flesh strips can be a pain in the neck.

[U-238]

Exactly. That means if we can get this done then the mod will be that much more awsome. Also many programs like blender and 3d studio have come much further in the way of scripts which do alot of that for you.

[Dark_Soul74]

*cough*

[Holocaust]

Sorry, I've been caught up with school again, as are most of the members that are involved I think.

[Aqo]

I can't start making the GRPs until the techtree is decided. The task I gave everyone was rather simple, show your own idea of what the techtree should be. Doooo iiit.

---

Blood strips are made as part of the texture. The detail is barely noticeable anyway in a unit which is as big as 32*32 pixels.

---

We may work on the older SCTS projects later.

[Holocaust]

I'm good with the Tech-trees as they are

Human Town Hall/Centre - Miner

Human Rax - Footman - Bowman - Cavalry

Human Siege Shop - Battering Ram - Trebuchet - Boltslayer

Human Church - Priest - Missionary - Paladin

Human Lord's Round - Lord - Crusader

Human Shipyard - Transport Ship - Voyager - Battleship

Yeah, I made up some stuff as I went along, not sure if the race has enough units though

[Aqo]

How are you planning to get 6 factories, Holo'? By trigger-replacing buildings? What two buildings should we use for replacement?

This may end up being somewhat problomatic, if zerg is our unused race. Maybe we can use Zerg for undead, and make the hive a Crypt, then use toss for the extended terran factories?

[Holocaust]

How are you planning to get 6 factories, Holo'? By trigger-replacing buildings? What two buildings should we use for replacement?

This may end up being somewhat problomatic, if zerg is our unused race. Maybe we can use Zerg for undead, and make the hive a Crypt, then use toss for the extended terran factories?

6 factories...
I forgot about not using Mem :\
Maybe the Sci Fac could be an extra factory, I'm still thinking about that

Zerg for Undead, precisly what I'm thinking.
Protoss could be used as extended buildings for both races, I'm good with that

[MidnightGladius]

I suppose we could do addon-replace for some units, but otherwise, yeah, using gates/robofacs/sgates is fine with me.

[Hawthorne]

Addon, for archers, if they're attacking a unit that's far away, there should be a chance of mising the unit and the arrow should go on a parabule ( half circle ).

[Dark_Soul74]

The parabola(arch) can be coded in graphically, just not in a large arch based on distance. Also, missing based on range isn't really possible either, unless you do a wacky iscript that has the chance to despawn the projectile, and it gets more likely the farther it goes...

[Aqo]

We can use the option in .dat weapon entries that makes projectiles only damage what they actually hit, if anything, and not what they were originally shot onto. Units that move around will make projectiles shot on them miss in long ranges - when they have enough time to move away.

[Dark_Soul74]

Yes, but that would mean that it is practically impossible to hit anything fast, meaning extra work balancing.

[MidnightGladius]

It's entirely possible to make it so that, say:

WeaponGndAttkInit:
wait X
__1e_condjmp Y local00
goto WeaponGndAttkInit

local00
domissiledmg
end

Added to a __1e_condjmp in the unit's attacking animation (straight shot or halo), it would make for pretty haphazard shooting : /

[Hawthorne]

What about something else. All ground units leaving foot marks on the ground that diminish in a minute's time, and since there will be sea ships, they can leave water diminishes, meaning watter gets cut in two for a minute & so on.

[MidnightGladius]

Um... unless we get around the sprite limit, that will basically cause gameplay to fall on its face and die.

If we do get around the sprite limit, I'm all for it.

[Hawthorne]

Then I sincerely hope that we get around the sprite limit, that will make the game more challenging to say the least :)

[U-238]

The only way you're going to get past the sprite limit is to have a version depnedant mod. If you don't mind that then I'll see if I can get you guys past the sprite limit but otherwise it's not going to happen.

We can use the option in .dat weapon entries that makes projectiles only damage what they actually hit, if anything, and not what they were originally shot onto. Units that move around will make projectiles shot on them miss in long ranges - when they have enough time to move away.

That takes the word "micro" to a whole new level. :P

[Hawthorne]

There could be an upgrade for archer units, that lowers the chance of them not hitting something over long range a little :)

[Aqo]

Well, ok, this is all good, I say we should start writing the scripts already. But this can't be done without the graphics, for the play frame references, and I can't make GRPs unless we have the unit draft filled:

SCV ->
Marine ->
Firebat ->
Ghost ->
Medic ->
Vulture ->
etc...

Here's a general preview of what I see so far. This desperately needs modification, so anyone on the team or not on it, please suggest improvements (would be best if you write your own entire unit->unit draft):

SCV -> Human Miner
Marine -> Human Swordsman/Footman (isn't "Footman" too WC-reference-ish?)
Firebat -> Human Bowman/Archer
Ghost -> Human Crusader(!?!?)
Medic -> Human Cavalry... /Paladin?(paladins can heal, but this is way too WCish, so yay or nay?)/Priest? (doubt it, buying priests thru a Barracks? lol)
Vulture -> Human Battering Ram
Siege Tank -> Human Trebuchet
Goliath -> Human Boltslayer
Wraith -> Voyager
Dropship -> Human Transport Ship
Science Vessel -> ?used as a replacement for unit built from somewhere else? Human Priest.
Battlecruiser -> Human Battleship
Valkyrie -> ?used as a replacement for unit built from somewhere else? Human Missionary/Paladin

Probe -> Miner II ???!?!
Zealot -> Human Missionary??
Dragoon -> Human Missionary??
High Templar -> Human Paladin??
Dark Templar -> Human Lord/Crusader??
Scout -> Griffin??
Carrier -> Phoenix??

Drone -> Undead Slave
Zergling -> Undead Skeleton
Hydralisk -> Undead Zombie
Lurker -> Flesh Golem
Defiler -> Undead Channeler
Ultralisk -> Undead Deathknight/Vampire/Necromancer
Mutalisk -> Undead Ghost
Guardian -> ???
Devourer -> Undead Wraith
Scourge -> Undead Grim
Queen -> Undead Necromancer

[Holocaust]

o_o
I'm good with all of those
For the Guardian though, perhaps a unit called Oblivion? Just made up on the spot, I'll have to brainstorm some ideas on how it'll look like.
Maybe some 'toss should units should be undead as well, to balance things a bit

[MidnightGladius]

Guardian names...

Lightslayer
Descecrator
Lifetaker
Doomcaller
Hatesinger

[Holocaust]

Guardian names...

Lightslayer
Descecrator
Lifetaker
Doomcaller
Hatesinger

They sound alot like things that would good for WC hero names ;)
I'll give a few more names

Apocalisk or Apocalysk
Youkai
Korrosia

Stuff off the top of my head, again
Perhaps the guardian unit could be a mythologic creature for the Undead.
My idea of it's graphical looks, I'm still working on that

[MidnightGladius]

Haha, they're from my list of custom classes from WAY back, when I used to play DnD.

And for its looks - I think a skeletal/wispy version of Safer Sephiroth from FF7 would be awesome. Intimidating, at the very least.

[Dark_Soul74]

Also, will water units actually be possible? I remember hearing that it was a movement type in Arsenal, but I always thought it was buggy or something.

[Aqo]

There isn't a water walkable tag in Arsenal. That'd be impossible, since water is just basic unwalkable tiles, like cliffs and doodads.
With gridsystem blocking, however, we can restrict air units to an area. Thus we can restrict them to watery areas on our maps. A minor problem would be the building of Water-unit-factories inside water, with our ground-only workers, but I'm certain it'll just be an interesting trigger challange and not an actual block.

Anyway, people, please take the unit draft seriously and put thought into it. Don't just skim thru it and say it's ok. It can't be ok because many of the units are not even decided, not only the guardian; Also, many units that were suggested weren't fit in.
All to it, it needs your thoughts. Forget I created a unit draft, create you own.

All of you.

Then we'll sit together and compare what's inside those drafts to get the best result.

[Hawthorne]

Well, it is possible to create buildings on water, SCXE map editor does that and the game doesn't crash, maybe we can just make a restriction that these buildings be created near water and we can do some kind of an animation of the ship being carried into the water or something like that.

[U-238]

Terran = humans/human

SCV = Worker?
Marine = Footsoldier
Firebat = current name is good
ghost = Kight (well duh! you've got to have a knight in there)
medic = medicine healer

Vulture = basic calvaryman
Tank = War machine ( like a catapult)
Goliath = achertower?

Wraith = scout ship/corsair
Valk = medium warship
vessle = galleion
dropship = transport ship
battlecruiser = battleship

I'll work on some zerg ones a little more in depth. Terrans were just what sounded right to me.

[Holocaust]

Terran = humans/human

SCV = Worker?
Marine = Footsoldier
Firebat = current name is good
ghost = Kight (well duh! you've got to have a knight in there)
medic = medicine healer

Vulture = basic calvaryman
Tank = War machine ( like a catapult)
Goliath = achertower?

Wraith = scout ship/corsair
Valk = medium warship
vessle = galleion
dropship = transport ship
battlecruiser = battleship

I'll work on some zerg ones a little more in depth. Terrans were just what sounded right to me.

I thought the names for the human units were already final on the pages before.

SCV - Miner

Marine - Archer, with an upgrade that allows usage of fire arrows, xtra dmg and range (Ù2 Shells)

Firebat - Swordsman

Ghost - Crusader...Damn, I need to think of what a crusader does first...

Medic - Missionary, priest with healing powers, or Paladin would be another choice. Maybe instead of Paladin, it could be "Holy Knight"

Vulture - Battering Ram, yes indeed...that can spider mines...:P

Siege Tank - Trebuchet, think of Siege Tank that's always in Siege mode but can move.

Goliath - Boltslayer, A medium combination of the last 2 siege units but has the same role as the Goliath. Perhaps a crude turret that fires spears for anti air with spikes lining the base for a melee ground attack that's weaker than the battering ram or a ranged attack. I was thinking of a sort of cart with a crude looking turret that is used to line up multiple spears. Underneath the turret, there could be a place where the Boltslayer's pilot/driver could sit and shoot arrows using a crossbow for a short/med range ground attack.

Wraith - Voyager, some sort of fast ranged attack, arrows, small cannon balls, etc

Dropship - Transport ship

S.Vessel - I like the name Galleion from U-238, perhaps some sort of quick moving scouting sea vessel

BC - Battleship, mid/long ranged siege attack (Cannonballs)

I'll think of more...after I come back from school

[U-238]

There isn't a water walkable tag in Arsenal. That'd be impossible, since water is just basic unwalkable tiles, like cliffs and doodads.
With gridsystem blocking, however, we can restrict air units to an area. Thus we can restrict them to watery areas on our maps. A minor problem would be the building of Water-unit-factories inside water, with our ground-only workers, but I'm certain it'll just be an interesting trigger challange and not an actual block.

Actualy I think it'd be possible to have the factory be built near the waterway and when a water unit is buit it'll automaticly end up in the water. (This due to the fact that the water terrain is close enough that the unit will end up in there anyways.) The only thing would be finding a way to make it so you have to place the building near water.

[Dark_Soul74]

No matter which way we trigger it, it'll work poorly and will rely entirely on the map. We shouldn't include them if this is the case, since not only will it mean that it needs to be included per map, but water will need to be a neccesary part of gameplay, and many maps will be unusable, meaning that the maps playable in the mod will be severely limited.

Also, flying ships + trigger containment = Blocky and choppy restrictions and movement. Totally unrealistic.

I vote to completely replace them.

[MidnightGladius]

kk... I'm changing some of the names and adding in what I think their role would be.

Barracks -> Barracks
Factory -> Church
Starport -> Docks

SCV -> Human Miner (no role changes)
Marine -> Human Soldier (strong, high-HP expensive melee that can be used until end of game - think WC3 grunts)
Firebat -> Human Marksman (low-HP but high damage; chances of missing means it needs to be used en-masse for high effectiveness. Probably rendered obsolete later on by UD AoE spells)
Ghost -> Human Sharpshooter (replace with a non-nuker Ghost; low HP, low speed, high damage and range; lockdown would be replaced with a Incendiary Arrow that starts small fires where it hits; much more accurate than Marksman)
Medic -> Human Combat Surgeon (Let's leave Barracks units away from the Light, alright? In my view, they're just the basic, "secular" units) (Heal and Restoration would probably be kept the same, and I think we could change OptFlare into some sort of poison trap that deals continuous damage over terrain)

Vulture -> Human Seer (Mines would be "Foresight Wards"; normal attack would be a Parasite variant)
Siege Tank -> Human Elementalist (Very expensive, with low HP and speed but high damage potential; In Tank mode, hits ground targets with an Earth attack [rippling shockwaves or something?] and air targets with Lightning. In Siege mode, hits ground targets with a fireball and air targets with ice shards [a lot of low-damage projectiles with Halo properties] with an added random Ensnare effect)
Goliath -> Human Priest (replaced with SciVessel base; ground unit spellcaster)

Wraith -> Human Scoutship (lightly armored but cheap and fast, it has no ATS capabilities but is capable of doing lots of damage to other ships if in large numbers)
Dropship -> Human Transport Ship (slow and heavily armored, OR fast and lightly armored? I'm opting towards the former)
Science Vessel -> Human Hammer Ship (replaced with some air unit; heavily armored melee ATA)
Battlecruiser -> Human Battleship (Extremely heavily armored, with high damage and long cooldown, possible minimum range. We could make the GRPs so that YGun is a kind of 'Broadsiding' to pound a specific spot with heavy focused fire)
Valkyrie -> Human Submarine (low armor, low speed, but cloaked and able to deal massive damage per hit from close range, if not detected)

---------------

I don't think having religious and secular units produced from the same building would make much sense, so I just replaced the factory units completely.

And DS, since we're using a custom map anyways (didn't we say that a while back?), it's possible to use triggers so that attempting to build a Dock at anywhere but a waterway will destroy it and refund, or to just have pre-placed, captureable Docks, or something.

And about Knights/the lack of Knights, I just can't think of a realistic way to get them in there without screwing it up completely.

Think about it: If they're Ghosts, then the CovertOps has to be a Stables, or some such. That makes the ScienceFacility a bit iffy...

My way, I plan on having it so that:

SciFac: Weapons Development
- CovertOps: Bowcrafter (or something similar that has to do with archery)
- PhysicLabs: Gunpowder Refinery

Thoughts?

[Holocaust]

meh siege/artillery units T T ke

This mod is set in medieval ages, I'm not sure about the submarine, I'm still trying to picture an ancient submarine made of wood.
I'm still with the Marine being the Archer/Bowman because of the U-238 shell upgrade for range. The Firebat's Academy req can be nerfed so it can be built as default...but with mem :\.

We could still have Human Artillery/Siege and knights if we split half of the 'toss units with humans and half with the Undead.

[MidnightGladius]

Hmm... I forgot about that.

Well, I think it'd be possible, certainly, but probably not feasible. Hmm.

[Aqo]

Actualy I think it'd be possible to have the factory be built near the waterway and when a water unit is buit it'll automaticly end up in the water. (This due to the fact that the water terrain is close enough that the unit will end up in there anyways.) The only thing would be finding a way to make it so you have to place the building near water.
I guess we can disable pathing requirements, in which case, due to the workers still only being able to walk on land, the player will be able to build water factories of water-edges.

No matter which way we trigger it, it'll work poorly and will rely entirely on the map. We shouldn't include them if this is the case, since not only will it mean that it needs to be included per map, but water will need to be a neccesary part of gameplay, and many maps will be unusable, meaning that the maps playable in the mod will be severely limited.

Also, flying ships + trigger containment = Blocky and choppy restrictions and movement. Totally unrealistic.

I vote to completely replace them.
Download the attachement, play the map, fly dropships around. The system is not blocky, it's rather simple - you get too close on land, you DIE. :P
(the wraiths and BCs need switches added to work, so don't try them on that map, unless you wish to add the switches and see...)
Also, water won't neccesarily be something that you can't play without. There were more then enough waterless maps in WC2, Total Annihilation, and more, despite those games having water units (and many of them), and it never hurt anybody. No one ever always uses all of his units anyway.

---

I can't really picture a submarine either. And combat surgen sounds unfitting as well... healthcare back in the medical ages pretty much sumed up to: You get wounded -> you die. You get sick - you die. Something bad happens to you - sucks to be you. It will probably be a lot more reasonable to use priests as healers. I agree they shouldn't be built thru a barracks though, it makes no sense at all if they were.
Galleion is interesting and can be added; it'll mean our humans are either british or french then, though. Voyager also sounds better then just 'frigate' or something like that.
Hammar ship... can this maybe rather be a Ram-ship? Same concept / dif' name.

Now I see we all agree that there needs to be a barracks, a church, a workshop and a shipyard, but the problem is that these are 4 and we only have 3 factories available. So what if we make it so that when you build a nuke silo (I doubt we'll have anything nuke-like) you'll get a worker unit (probe) that can build either the church or workshop? I'd say make the workshop the factory, because siege tank can be the perfect Trebuchet, and make the gateway the church.

[Dark_Soul74]

Yes, you get too close to land, you die... It's not blocky, it just ruins pathing, since the air units wouldn't autonomously know better than to go on land. Blocky methods would be ones that didn't kill ships, since it would look like a crude teleport. Also, how do you plan on spawning the ships? If they build the factory too close to water, they'd all die.

[bomber7]

Even for a team, a mod of that size could take months if not a year to complete of continous work!
Not that, thats a bad thing, but you should realize how much work this will take!

[Aqo]

Yes, you get too close to land, you die... It's not blocky, it just ruins pathing, since the air units wouldn't autonomously know better than to go on land. Blocky methods would be ones that didn't kill ships, since it would look like a crude teleport.
It can be done with movement order instead of teleport and the blockyness would be nonexistant, but these kind of methods are very unit intensive and kill the 1650 limit... I wouldn't consider using them unless it's an RPG. So,

Also, how do you plan on spawning the ships? If they build the factory too close to water, they'd all die.
Like U-238 suggested, we'll come up with something to allow players to build water-unit factories right on water edges, so that units will spawn far enough from the death area on ground. We'll add a trigger that checks if a factory that's being built is too close to ground in a way that will not allow units to be built from it, and make it be removed and refunded in those cases.

So, yay or nay? Ships can be done, the technical part is not a block here.
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6563/gallioneseve9.png

Even for a team, a mod of that size could take months if not a year to complete of continous work!
Not that, thats a bad thing, but you should realize how much work this will take!
It's really not as much as it seems. I, alone, made tens (if not hundreds) of unit, projectile and overlay modifications over the last year. I'm certain everyone here is just as experienced, in which case, this should be done quickly as soon as we have the basics decided.

[U-238]

I say "yay" Those ship in that pic are awsome.

[Holocaust]

In total agreement.

[MidnightGladius]

Da, tovarisch.

Wo tong yi.

[Aqo]

Back to the unit sheet then...

SCV -> Miner
Marine / Firebat -> One is a footman other is a markshman, which is each?
Ghost -> Knight / Crusader / Sharpshooter
Medic -> Healer / Surjen / Priest
Vulture -> Calavary / Seer / Battering Ram
Goliath -> Arrowspear War Machine / Priest
Siege Tank -> Trebuchet / Elementalist
Wraith -> Scout ship -> Voyager
Dropship -> Transport Vessel
Science Vessel -> Galleion (fast, ranged) / Hammership (big and slow, melee)
Battlecruiser -> Battleship (Huge Water Domination Cruiser)
Valkyrie -> Submarine / Medium Attack Ship

Barracks -> Barracks
Starport -> Shipyard / Docks / Seaport
Factory -> Church / Workshop

To my belief we need both a Church and a Workshop, so I suggest to use nuclear silo as a second unit build button instead of addon, make it build probes that make gateways as a Church, where we can create a trigger that autoreplaces zealots with Medics.
Other then that, I feel a submarine would be too WC2ish and unrealistic, so I'm not in support of it.

Here is what I see as a possibility right now:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1439/sctsunitsheetrj9.png
The dragoon and vulture will be replaced with raynor and fenix so that seers can place wards.

Overall, this is an alpha layout of the human techtree. Comment on it at will!

There's several units that I left out of this, as I feel 17 is enough for one race, but if you wish to resuggest ideas that you posted and I didn't use please do, there's still the stargate...

Also, the Undead techtree needs some love.

[Holocaust]

That is an awesome techtree there Aqo'

Let's see... Undead

Drone - Undead Slave/Skeletal Harvestor

Zergling - Undead Skeletal Melee Warrior/Zombie

Hydralisk - Undead ..er Ranged Warrior, no Archery for the Undead, they'll seem too Human IMO. Perhaps some sort of beast with rotting flesh that has a ranged attack. Undead...Lycan Beast? Oh man...

Lurker - Undead Lycanthrope, A more humanoid looking Lycan for the graphic, with a Heavy melee attack. Move speed is much fater than Lycan beast counter part....Or perhaps the Hydra should be the Lycanthrope with the ranged attack, and the Lurker be the Lycan Beast with Increased move speed and powerful melee... I'm using the Lycanthropy idea with the Lurker and Hydralisk because no other idea has come to me yet that involves undead morphing into another form...

Mutalisk - Undead Oblivion Bat, I'm thinking a Large omnious looking bat with a fast melee attack...fangs or claws.

Guardian - Undead Apocalysk/Doombringer, A large bat...that evolves into an even larger and powerful beast with a deadly long ranged, high cooldown, DoT effect attack vs ground.

Devourer - ...Undead Vampire? A large bat could evolve into an even larger and horrific looking bat, or morph back into its original form... I'm guessing this guy could be ranged vs air and ground, but basically is a ground unit. Good movespeed, coupled a moderate IAS. I'm very spectacle, however, about the life-draining effect with the Vampire. Can it be done with triggers?

Scourge - Undead Spectre Raven, permanantly cloaked and can detect, non-attacking scout.

Queen - Lich, forgot totally about that

Defiler - Necromancer, how would we create a "Raise Dead" spell? o_O

Ultralisk - Fel Harbinger, a giant body of corpses with ranged meat cleavers attached to chains.

Zealot(If unused) - Death Knight

Dragoon(If unused) - Apparation, a medium sized etheral unit basically, ranged energy ball type attack

Reaver - Fel Warlock

s'all..for now

[Aqo]

If you can't find ideas, remember the traditional undeads - skeleton, zombie, ghost, vampire, possessing soul, fel warriors (hellish a bit). Then there's variants of those -> lich, mutant, wraith, banshee, chaos knights, etc. Plus there's the undead masters, that are warlocks, witches, necromancers, etc.

Look for your D&D3 monster manuals people! :P

[Dark_Soul74]

I still believe that the mod should not contain things that need to be cheaply enacted through triggers. It makes it difficult for anyone to make maps for it, and cheapens gameplay since it is an obvious thing in most cases.

[Holocaust]

Completed list

Zergling - Undead Skeletal Melee Warrior/Zombie

Hydralisk - Undead ..er Ranged Warrior, no Archery for the Undead, they'll seem too Human IMO. Perhaps some sort of beast with rotting flesh that has a ranged attack. Undead...Lycan Beast? Oh man...

Lurker - Undead Lycanthrope, A more humanoid looking Lycan for the graphic, with a Heavy melee attack. Move speed is much fater than Lycan beast counter part....Or perhaps the Hydra should be the Lycanthrope with the ranged attack, and the Lurker be the Lycan Beast with Increased move speed and powerful melee... I'm using the Lycanthropy idea with the Lurker and Hydralisk because no other idea has come to me yet that involves undead morphing into another form...

Mutalisk - Undead Oblivion Bat, I'm thinking a Large omnious looking bat with a fast melee attack...fangs or claws.

Guardian - Undead Apocalysk/Doombringer, A large bat...that evolves into an even larger and powerful beast with a deadly long ranged, high cooldown, DoT effect attack vs ground.

Devourer - ...Undead Vampire? A large bat could evolve into an even larger and horrific looking bat, or morph back into its original form... I'm guessing this guy could be ranged vs air and ground, but basically is a ground unit. Good movespeed, coupled a moderate IAS. I'm very spectacle, however, about the life-draining effect with the Vampire. Can it be done with triggers?

Scourge - Undead Spectre Raven, permanantly cloaked and can detect, non-attacking scout.

Queen - Lich, forgot totally about that

Defiler - Necromancer, how would we create a "Raise Dead" spell? o_O

Ultralisk - Fel Harbinger, a giant body of corpses with ranged meat cleavers attached to chains.

Zealot(If unused) - Death Knight

Dragoon(If unused) - Apparation, a medium sized etheral unit basically, ranged energy ball type attack

Reaver - Fel Warlock

s'all..for now

[Aqo]

I still believe that the mod should not contain some things due to the following reasons: #1: they need to be cheaply enacted through triggers.
What's so "cheap" and bad about using the grid system and deathcounter overlays to limit certain units to certain locations on certain maps?

#2: It makes it difficult for anyone to make maps for it.
Difficulty for not who plays the mod but for who makes the mod is a technical and irrelevant issue. It's not even hard; the map I posted as example took me less then 10 minutes to make.

#3: cheapens gameplay since it is an obvious thing in most cases.
What's obvious? The way water units were restricted to water? Why wouldn't it be obvious? It's just as obvious how we made some units have a different GRP, and different attributes.


I understand your concern, you think that if we involve trigger work in the mod it'll feel less like a mod and seem less professional. However this shouldn't be the case; once people try the mod and see its features, they'll have no reason to believe it's unprofessional in any way.

[Hawthorne]

Well, since MemGraft is not an option, what if we use FireGraft ( When it goes out ), we will be able to do a lot of sutff with it, it's not version dependable and so on.

[Aqo]

I already said earlier in the thread that we will update this mod with FireGraft possibilities as soon as FireGraft is released. It'll be a great addition indeed :)

---

Is anyone other then Holocaust interested in suggesting a techtree for undeads? Unlike humans that are rather obvious (men, men on horses, war machines, men with magic, lol) undead can vary a lot.

[U-238]

Well I'll gie it a shot. I've been swamped lately and havn't had really any time at all but I'll see what I can get together.

[DiscipleOfAdun]

Well, since MemGraft is not an option, what if we use FireGraft ( When it goes out ), we will be able to do a lot of sutff with it, it's not version dependable and so on.
:o , who told you that?!?!

To clarify that for you all - Each version of SC has different offsets for everything. To properly have a button patcher, you need to know those offsets. FG is designed so that the APPLICATION itself does not have those offsets hardcoded into it. However, I do need the offsets. So, FG has a special file which contains those offsets. Thus, the app is version independant in a sense of you having the correct .fgd and sc.exe file installed. Also, changing version that an patch from FG uses will be quick change of 2 or more files inside an MPQ, hopefully done by anyone who has the replacements.

When a patch is distributed, it can have as many different versions as it can support in it...but future versions will not be supported until the offsets are found. (which Perhaps when I get the app done, I'll let you guys take a look at what is/isn't version specific.

I will say, you won't need near as many trigger replacements if you used a memory patcher. I am sure by the time you guys get a bit more into this, FG will be at least in private beta, and I know of at least one SCTS member who is slated for that beta.

[Holocaust]

Finished the units, now for the building names...if no one else is going to contribute.

Death Crypt
Rotting Citadel
Haunted Palace
Doom Temple
Fel Summoning Pit
Ritual Pit
Necro Stables
Graveyard
Halls of Nevermore
Sacrificial Shrine
Lycanthropy Den
Blood Pool
Vamspire (Lol, Spire for Vampires/Bats. Very cheesy, indeed)
Advanced Vamspire
Spirit Beacon

[Aqo]

Some of these names are truly odd o.O

Necro Stables? Spirit Beacon? ...Vamspire...? Very cheesy indeed :P

[DarkMirror]

I'm interested in how this turns out. Maby you coold replace vamspire with, say, Infernal Spire. I mean, the name sorta works.

[Holocaust]

I'm interested in how this turns out. Maby you coold replace vamspire with, say, Infernal Spire. I mean, the name sorta works.

That does sound alot more cooler, but none can math the uniqueness of "Vamspire" :D. I was however thinking of something that would match Vampires and Bats. Infernal Spire sounds more demonic IMO, but it's not cheesy, I'm good with it. :)

[Sikawtic]

alkhgladjf

This thread makes me happy in my pants. <_<

But... make sure to pm me when mapping is commencing, just in case I don't check this thread for awhile (busy:()

[Sikawtic]

I know of at least one SCTS member who is slated for that beta.
What's to stop him from giving it to the rest of us? (you could just open it to all the SCT modders ? :) not that I'd count atm, but yeah.)

I'm thinking about getting back into modding once FG is released.

[Aqo]

I'll PM you once we have basis for a map, Sikawtic.

On the other issue, that really is something that needs to be discussed... should this mod be cheesy or serious? Following that, should the graphics be realistic or cartoony?

[U-238]

Well considering that we're doing units with some pretty "graphic" sounding names I'd say go for a more realistic style.

[Holocaust]

So are we good with the units and names?
If so, I'll start assigning names to various buildings

[TSOShadow]

I'm wonder... will zombies be able to spread thier disease or wat? I can see the mass numbers and medievil men cutting them down and wearing out I guess...

It's a hard image to paint... Thier suppost to be a castle wall and the zombies slowly beat through and take unbeilevable amounts of damage from units but more from others?

How the battles suppost to be shaped and whats the story behind all this?

[Aqo]

No story yet. The battles are gonna be like every RTS, as you could expect.

---

I'm gonna only give one more day for everyone who still hadn't suggested a techtree for the undead or changes to the human tree before I start producing GRPs according to the existing unitlist. Don't be afraid to suggest anything if you still hadn't, and please hurry up.

[U-238]

Haunted palace is out. Add in palace of shadow or something like that.

As for units here's my list...

Drone: holocausts name is fine

Zergling: Undead Zombie

Hydralisk: undead warrior (There's two melee units. One's stronger and bigger than the other.)

Lurke: I suppose holos name is good.

Muta: Undead deathwing. Sorta like holos suggestion but give it more of a humaniod body with wings.

Gaurd: I'm good with holos.

Devo: Undead carrier, A carrier/kamikazie unit that gets near its target and then explodes leaving smaller zombies in its place. (not sure if it's possible to have ground units spawn from an air unit.

Ultralisk: Undead terror monster, sorta like those elephant things from lotr except more ugly and frightfull looking. Otherwise it acts the same way.

I'm good with the rest of the tech tree for the ud

I'm good on the humans tree too btw.

EDIT: Wait. Is the undead going to consist of just undead humans (with creepy horses and stuff) or can we have some room to breath? Because if so we could have goblins and many other things. (tech tree would prove to be a little more "interesting" ;))

[DarkMirror]

Well, I think that these guys were going with Zombies/Fiendish stuff.

[TSOShadow]

Well what about infection? to branch into other tech trees?... Maybe make it u gotta infest enemy stuff for more advanted and changed units? (kinda like flood in halo...) They infest an advanced species and develop some shielding :/ Infest a warrior and get better armor? or a heavy armored unit? ment as a meat shield?

[Holocaust]

Death Crypt - Hatchery

Rotting Citadel - Lair

Shadow Palace - Hive

Doom Temple - Defiler Mound

Fel Summoning Pit - Ultralisk Cavern

Ritual Pit - Evolution Chamber

Plagued Stables (Better? :P) - Robotics Facility (As an extra building)

Graveyard - Spawning Pool

Halls of Nevermore - Queen's Nest

Assimilation Shrine - Extractor

Lycanthropy Den - Hydra' Den

Blood Pool...not sure yet

Infernal Spire/Advanced Infernal Spire - Spire/G.spire

Spirit Beacon - Cybernetics Core

[Aqo]

I ran into a problem, which I'm probably going to run into many more times. Help?

I can't decide where to put team colors on the Archer -
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1184/archerhummz4.png

[Holocaust]

I'd say the team colours should be on the cloak, the blackened parts would stay the same, but the marooned parts would vary, like the Dwarf Rifleman in WC3.

[U-238]

Yea the colors should be on the clothing of the units. Just seems so much more natural.

[Aqo]

Alright.

Now, I want you people to start writing scripts for the new graphics. Should I let you volunteer or assign units per member myself?

[Holocaust]

Alright.

Now, I want you people to start writing scripts for the new graphics. Should I let you volunteer or assign units per member myself?

Assign me. :<

[U-238]

It'd probably be better that you assign people scripts to write so that two people don't take the same unit, write two different scripts for it and then end up fighting eachother over who's scripts are better. (allthough I you don't mind I'll take a few of the more "athletic" units;))

Also if you need some help in designing some units feel free to give me a project.

[Sikawtic]

Do we have access to any of the GRPs?

[Aqo]

I'll send GRPs to those who'll work on their scripts.

[Pirahordica_King]

THIS IS POINTLESS!
Your pathetic modding skills cannot stand up to me, or my newly ressurected Spamming/Flaming skills!
Oh, and hi everyone, hows it been going?

[Holocaust]

THIS IS POINTLESS!
Your pathetic modding skills cannot stand up to me, or my newly ressurected Spamming/Flaming skills!
Oh, and hi everyone, hows it been going?

Your existance is pointless, pitiful whore.

I can't test any scripts I write btw, my Starcraft CD seems to have gone missing...

[Aqo]

So is Holocaust the only one who want to write scripts? I don't want to throw it all on one person.

[U-238]

Nono I'll write scripts too. I just didn't know if you wanted any help with grps.

[Aqo]

If you can help with GRPs it would be great, otherwise I already made some myself.

I'll send some for you and Holo to work on.

[Sikawtic]

Assassin is related to the Middle East (Saudis mostly) culture, not Africa <_<

Well I guess the upper right tip of Africa... but yea.

Oh and I would like it if the GRPs were available to all SCTS members, much like how it was run before the hiatus...

[U-238]

I'm not sure if they will. Mainly because if we start throwing grps up here work can oh-so-easily get stolen. People want good grps these days and won't be afraid to take things without asking.

[Flametrooper]

Just out of curiousity, what are you guys working on? I've seen this thread around for a long time, but haven't done anything cause I can only do basic GRP editing, DatEdit and Arsenal 3 stuff. SO, I was just wondering when you guys'll be done and what you're working on.

[DarkMirror]

Oh guys? Could you try to make this mod playable for oneplayer?
Cuase I hated the starwars TC becuse its only usable on Battle.net

[U-238]

Actually it should be playable as both I believe.


Just out of curiousity, what are you guys working on? I've seen this thread around for a long time, but haven't done anything cause I can only do basic GRP editing, DatEdit and Arsenal 3 stuff. SO, I was just wondering when you guys'll be done and what you're working on.

We're currently in the graphics stage of creating a medevil mod between humans and a race called the undead. Some of the new features will be ships on water and possibly new spells. In addition to redoing all the weapons and units.

[Aqo]

Currently U-238 and Holocaust are writing scripts; what about the other modders?

[Sikawtic]

I'm waiting for map info :)

[Holocaust]

...Wait just a moment, isn't the Archer/Marine's script already fine?
What else am I doing other than connecting frames to attack/walk etc animations?

[Aqo]

Well connecting frames is pretty much it, in most cases, which is why I expect you to finish it in less then 24 hours (timezone issue).

[Holocaust]

24 hours?
I'm on it.

[Holocaust]

I'm caught up in something right now that I can't seem to get out of, so my script is out of the picture. Good luck U2'

[U-238]

Oh sure right as I get hit with business. Well I'll see about (hopefully) getting it done by the end of this week. Really sorry about this aqo.

[Aqo]

This is quite dissapointing, do you guys really don't have a spare 15 minutes during the entire day to make some iscript?

Eh, well at least you post, so ty for that. It seems like DS74 and Midnight don't even bother looking at this thread. :(

[Flametrooper]

I would love to help, but I would probably be the worst of all of you, considering I can only use DatEdit and Arsenal 3. I love doing mods, but I would probably be of no use to you.

[U-238]

Eh, well at least you post, so ty for that. It seems like DS74 and Midnight don't even bother looking at this thread. :(

>.>

<.<

speaking of "middy" where is "middy" anyways? I havn't seen nor heard from him in over a month.

[Aqo]

I've been inactive for a long time, soz, I have no good excuse (other then RL and SC).

So, what's going on? Everyone's silent? I want this to get MOVING. This means, I want IceCC iscripts to be sent to my PM box by Thursday, and I want everyone to report so that I know you're active.

Also, I'm gonna run a second project of mapping for the mappers on the team, since it's unfair that they have to wait while the modders do nothing. Start throwing suggestions already - should the map be an arena style, rpg, modified melee? etc.

[TheNomad]

I have a "work" suggestion. And before you slaughter me, hear me out. The impossible happened and I started work on something. Don't ask what, since all I have now are infinite ideas roaming in my head and I am writing them down so I can make a base of what I will eventually do (and what I CAN do considering 1.14 is so weird EXE wise and there is no grafter released yet).

Anyway... back to the point. While MG is not an option cos it won't let you play online, here's the thing... ATM, since at least 80% of my ideas REQUIRE a grafter, and although I can make at most 5% with exe hax0ring, it's not enough since I need more skills to do what I really want, therefore, I use MG. Now of course, the final project will not be 1.13e, OBVIOUSLY. I use MG so I can have a mod in a more or less beta stage so I can see how it turns out. I suggest you guys use MG to get hte base instead of triggers (or use triggers to help) and turn to FG later on, since FG will import mgp (not mgd!) files.

Anyhow, the only way to have something efficient (meaning instead of using triggers to use a nice patcher) is to do the exe modification by hand. The problem is that BNet added a new check that will kick you for any modified file which will pose some problems for a lot of mods (and cheats thank god). Anyway, just thought you should know about that.

As for my suggestion, I suggest you get a fake bnet server setup to test, change the gateway and play it as 1.13e MGed version to see how it turns out. I can't think there is nobody here with a spare 800 Mhz PC lying around :P Just a thought :)

Off the record, I thought of the whirlwind spell from WC2 as well, but I kinda gave it up since it was quite difficult to do it... but I'm still thinking whether I should include it in my project or not. If I can finish it (and works PROPERLY) I'll give it to you guys... but no promisses since I'm not Rhino just yet ;)

[Sikawtic]

SD > Rhino :P