TerrorStorm

[Cpt.Chronic]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5948263607579389947&q=terrorstorm

I just watched this newly produced documentary, which you can find on google video, that basically re-affirms my belief of government involvement in 9/11 and provides evidence of government involvement in both 9/11 and the London bombings on 7/7.

Please, let's try to limit the discussion to what's in the video, as that's what this thread is about, but if you go off topic, then so be it.

One of the things that really surprised me was how both the British government and the US gov't were holding mock exercises of the exact same situations of the attacks that actually occurred. In the case of the US government, it was the reason that jets were not scrambled to intercept the planes...because people on the ground thought it was part of the exercise, or maybe just to have an excuse for not scrambling jets to intercept...or both.

I mean, just recently the Netherlands sent up fighters to intercept a jet because of "suspected terrorists on board" due to them having laptops and cell phones and being brown.
( http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/news/ci_4235776 )
Anyway, my point is that if the Netherlands can send up jets that fast to intercept, why wouldn't America be able to protect the air-space of it's Capital when they have the largest Air Force in the world? The only way would be if jets weren't deployed due to inside manipulation, like scheduling an identical simulation exercise to coincide with the actual events that were occurring. Makes me wonder who designed and scheduled that exercise.

All the cameras in London was insane too. There's actually some cameras like that where I live too, but not nearly that many, well, unless you include the ones on all the stoplights...hmmm... :shiftyl:

Oh, one more thing...the fact that the owner of the collapsed buildings earned over 500 million in insurance money coupled with the fact that he was quoted as saying "we decided to pull it" couldn't be any more in your face motive/evidence of his involvement and of it being an inside job.

[Ubergopher]

Makes me wonder who designed and scheduled that exercise.
That would be the AETC. Air Education and Training Command just to save you a trip to google.
However, aside from that little tidbit to help your ingorance, here is a link to combat your link.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

[Cpt.Chronic]

Popular Mechanics is owned by the Hearst Corporation, which is one of the largest owners of media outlets (probably only behind Rupert Merdoch), and is hardly a reliable source considering its background of disinformation. William Randolf Hearst (one of his grandsons now runs the corporation), the founder of Hearst Corp., is synonomous with yellow journalism. In fact, it was his newspapers that the term originally referred to, as his newspapers were supporting and sensationalizing the Spanish-American War (including fake photos, fake inteviews, and flat-out lies) in order to sell more copies. I'd say Rupert Merdoch took a page or two out of ol' William Randolf's book, wouldn't you? Basically, they (Rupert Merdoch and The Hearst Corp.) are some of the main players in this propaganda machine of disinformation about 9/11 and the true motives behind the war in Iraq. Without the support of huge media conglomerates, government propaganda would surely fail.

BTW, did you watch the film? If so, why don't you comment on some of the things in it that you disagree with. If not, why don't you just comment on some of my comments. I don't want to make this thread about the Popular Mechanics article, because well, it's about the video...you can make your own thread if you want or you can reference certain parts of the PM article to refute certain points of the video. But don't just refuse to watch the video, post a link, and say that it completely refutes everything in the video when it obviously doesn't even hit on a lot of the points in the video.

Notice how on that page there is even a link to buy a book they published about the subject, whereas Alex Jones doesn't make you purchase his video to view it. Just another way to cash in through yellow journalism tactics.

[Skullflower]

You sound like a total conspiracy theorist. Thats just the way you come off in this thread. Ill watch the movie later though.

[kongurous]

If you're so keen on such bullshit, then ask the people who are supporting views different from your own yourselves. I'm sure the edittors of Popular Mechanics can supply you with phone numbers and e-mail addresses.

Every event in history has naysayers and brown-nosers, people looking to put the blame on the government. We can only hope they see the error of their ways.

[Cpt.Chronic]

You sound like a total conspiracy theorist. Thats just the way you come off in this thread. Ill watch the movie later though.
That's ok, I expected such responses. It's become the norm to label anyone that goes against the government and/or mass media a conspiracy theorist. But at least you're gonna watch the video, which is my whole point for posting this thread, so I thank you and look forward to discussing it with you :)

[kongurous]

That's ok, I expected such responses. It's become the norm to label anyone that goes against the government and/or mass media a conspiracy theorist.

Don't make this out to be a "I have the answers and you don't and if you don't believe them, you suck" thing. By supporting theories refuting official reports by government and other official sources, you are a conspiracy theorist. You said in your first post you thought the government was behind 9/11... which is a conspiracist thought in and out of itself.

As for the video... I'll watch it when I have nothing better to do. I trust my government to that end.

[Cpt.Chronic]

If you're so keen on such bullshit, then ask the people who are supporting views different from your own yourselves. I'm sure the edittors of Popular Mechanics can supply you with phone numbers and e-mail addresses.
Isn't that what I'm doing? And I doubt if I emailed Popular Mechanics this same stuff that they would reply to it. Want me to try? The reason I posted here is cause this is the forum I most post at and I figured I would get responses, whether they be for or against mine or the video's views, although all of them so far are against :P so I really don't see your point.

Every event in history has naysayers and brown-nosers, people looking to put the blame on the government. We can only hope they see the error of their ways.
Especially every event that kills thousands of people and leads to the deaths of thousands more. If there were no nay-sayers against such actions the state of humanity would be in very sad shape indeed. If we don't blame the government for the war in Iraq (which was spurred by the attacks of 9/11), who do we blame? Terrorists? Osama Bin Laden? Well, the government has tried to blame them, which unfortunately for them has fallen through (connection of Bin Laden/terrorists and Iraq are non-existant, although there are connections to Saudi Arabia). Then there was WMD's to blame it on that our government so profusously claimed existed and that were a direct threat to America, which also fell through. Then there was the final reason that the gov't claimed (after all other reasons had been debunked mind you) which was the fact that Saddam Hussein is a bad person and that we are liberating a country from this bad person's rule...a bad enough of a person to warrant the deaths of 50,000+ Iraqis. And since when does liberty entail an occupying force of thousands of foreign soldiers who have destroyed the infrastructure their society and caused an eruption of sectarian violence within its borders. Since when is that considered liberation?!

btw, did you watch the film?

[pixels]

EVERYTHING IS LINKED IN ONE CHAOTIC MESS TO DESTROY THE WORLD IN A BURNING SPIRAL OF PURE EVIL OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD.



i'm as anti-government as the next guy but really. really.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Don't make this out to be a "I have the answers and you don't and if you don't believe them, you suck" thing.
Please don't put words into my mouth that I didn't say. That's not what I'm making it out to be. I just said I expected no less than to be labeled a conspiracy theorist for going against government and mass media, which you have further proven to be true by being the second person to label me as such.

Of course I don't have all the answers, not many do. But I'm not afraid to ask questions about where this evidence points, and why certain coincidences have occured.

I trust my government to that end. To what end? To the end that they would not lie to you? Their lies about the WMD's are enough to prove that wrong.

To the end that they would not attack its own people? Due to the Freedom of Informations Act, the Northwoods Document has been declasified which was approved by the Defense Department and Joint Chiefs of Staff, and was only blocked from implementation because of JFK. It proposed that the US...hell, I'll just type out some of the quotes directly from it:

"Since it would seem desirable to use legitimate provocation as the basis for US military intervention in Cuba a cover and deception plan...could be used to provoke Cuban reactions."

"A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces."

"Use of MIG type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce such fact."

"The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday..."

"Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba."

"Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires -- napthalene."

"Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims"

"We could sink a boatload of Cubans in route to Florida (real or simulated)"

There are many more acts of US sponsored terrorism outlined in this government document, but I have to go. Start reading around page 10, which is where they begin to list this stuff.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf)

[Cpt.Chronic]

EVERYTHING IS LINKED IN ONE CHAOTIC MESS TO DESTROY THE WORLD IN A BURNING SPIRAL OF PURE EVIL OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD.



i'm as anti-government as the next guy but really. really.
Did you watch the video? Care to refute any points it made? If you didn't watch it, care to refute points I've made?

[Ubergopher]

Before you asked, no I haven't watched the video... Nor do I care to.

Due to the Freedom of Informations Act, the Northwoods Document has been declasified
I just got a question for ya', according to you our goverment murdered thousands of its own citizens to launch a war, were able to get away with it for about 5 years and yet when the time came to declassify the Document in question they released it without comment? That makes tons of sense to me...

ALSO, why the fuck are you judging the current president and his actions by a 50 year old document. Goverments change, so has the joint chiefs several times since then, and even the Secretary of Defense. Sooo... using the northwood documents as evidence to support your 9/11-zOMG-Bush-did-it-for-oil-zOMG-Revolution-bullshit-theory makes about as much sense as me saying that we declare war on Germany for being Nazis in WW2...

[Cpt.Chronic]

Before you asked, no I haven't watched the video... Nor do I care to.
What are you afraid of? The truth?


I just got a question for ya', according to you our goverment murdered thousands of its own citizens to launch a war, were able to get away with it for about 5 years and yet when the time came to declassify the Document in question they released it without comment? That makes tons of sense to me...
Actually, the document was released in 1997, well before the 9/11 attacks. I was mistaken when I said it was released under the Freedom of Informations Act-- I got it confused with other documents that have been declassified and I apologize for that. It was actually declassified by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board.



ALSO, why the fuck are you judging the current president and his actions by a 50 year old document. Goverments change, so has the joint chiefs several times since then, and even the Secretary of Defense. Sooo... using the northwood documents as evidence to support your 9/11-zOMG-Bush-did-it-for-oil-zOMG-Revolution-bullshit-theory makes about as much sense as me saying that we declare war on Germany for being Nazis in WW2...
Geez, taking things a little personal are we? Let's keep this civil shall we? You say governments change, and that's true to a certain extent, but usually it takes a major catalyst to change them, such as an outside military force (US military does this all the time) or a revolution from within (again, US special ops are known to conduct such activities as forming coups within another nation's borders). I agree that members of the government have changed, although some still remain, but the government structure and their idealistic reasoning that they are permitted to perform acts of evil to justify their ends, which they claim are for the good of America and for the good of the world still remain.

My reference to the Northwoods Document was not to provide evidence of government involvement in 9/11, but to show to those that say our government would never deceive and/or kill its own people to advance their agenda...I want them to see that it is possible for our government to conceive of such things and that there were actual plans written by our government to do this exact thing.

[own3d0406]

I have only watched 10 minutes of the video, but my bullcrap detecor is going crazy. You should read this http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

[Cpt.Chronic]

Not one person has commented on the video. The only thing y'all have posted is comments and links to what you believe contradicts what the video is about, when in reality, your comments and links don't hit on the majority of the points in the video.

PLEASE, SOMEONE, ANYONE, JUST COMMENT ON POINTS AND EVIDENCE MADE BY THE VIDEO. THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.

[Skullflower]

Ive only seen up to where they are talking about that one guy that MI6 was protecting and the bus that the police rerouted to a different location. So far its been pretty interesting.

[own3d0406]

please, Someone, Anyone, Just Comment On Points And Evidence Made By The Video. That Is The Point Of This Thread.
maybe Its Because The Video Is 1 Hour And 55 Minutes!!!

[Cpt.Chronic]

maybe Its Because The Video Is 1 Hour And 55 Minutes!!!
I guess 2 hours of your life is to high of a price to pay for truth and the pursuit of justice.

[Ubergopher]

Geez, taking things a little personal are we?
Yes, because what the President does reflects on me, just as much as my actions reflect on him and the entire country, so when you accuse our President of commiting treason, then you mine as well just accuse me of commiting treason.

[kongurous]

I guess 2 hours of your life is to high of a price to pay for truth and the pursuit of justice.

It's too high a price to pay because some jack-off on the internet is telling us to watch it. Remember my point earlier... it sounded something like this:

"I have the answers and you don't and if you don't believe them, you suck"

You may not have said the last part of the sentence, but you are essentially saying that you have the answers in the form of this video. Guess what? Not everyone has the time to sit on their computer and watch 2 hour long documentaries dedicated to conspiracy theories.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Yes, because what the President does reflects on me, just as much as my actions reflect on him and the entire country, so when you accuse our President of commiting treason, then you mine as well just accuse me of commiting treason.
But you can't say that I'm accusing you, because I'm not. If I were to use your logic, every person accused of murder also represents the president, who would then also be accused of murder. Or that every American is responsible for Watergate because Nixxon was our president at the time. Or that every American commits adultery because Clinton cheated on his wife. You see my point? You are not Bush. So please don't take this thread as me accusing you of such horrific acts.

[kongurous]

But you can't say that I'm accusing you, because I'm not. If I were to use your logic, every person accused of murder also represents the president, who would then also be accused of murder. Or that every American is responsible for Watergate because Nixxon was our president at the time. Or that every American commits adultery because Clinton cheated on his wife. You see my point? You are not Bush. So please don't take this thread as me accusing you of such horrific acts.

Ubergopher's in the military, thus his connection to our government is far more intimate than... say, a murderer is to the president.

[Skullflower]

Wouldnt his actions represent the military and not the president?

[Cpt.Chronic]

You may not have said the last part of the sentence, but you are essentially saying that you have the answers in the form of this video. Guess what? Not everyone has the time to sit on their computer and watch 2 hour long documentaries dedicated to conspiracy theories.
I also may not have said the first part of your quote either...oh, that's right, I didn't say that, nor was that my intention. All I'm wanting to do is discuss actual facts (not conspiracies) that the video presents. If you don't want to do that, and just want to continue to claim that I'm saying things that I'm not, well, you can continue to do so, but it's not what I intended this thread to be, and every time you do it, I'm going to call you out on it.

You say I claim to have the answers, but what is it that you have? Hell, you don't even have questions.

[Ubergopher]

Wouldnt his actions represent the military and not the president?
Both, because the President IS the Commander-In-Chief and hence, I am awnserable to him more so that almost everyone on this forum.

[kongurous]

I also may not have said the first part of your quote either...oh, that's right, I didn't say that

Never said you did.

All I'm wanting to do is discuss actual facts (not conspiracies) that the video presents.

Facts, conspiracies... you say to-mah-to, I say to-may-to.

If you don't want to do that, and just want to continue to claim that I'm saying things that I'm not, well, you can continue to do so, but it's not what I intended this thread to be, and every time you do it, I'm going to call you out on it.

I'm quivering in my boots.

You say I claim to have the answers, but what is it that you have? Hell, you don't even have questions.

Never said I had anything, but my bullshit meter flew off the charts at this thread.

[Skullflower]

Ubergopher's in the military, thus his connection to our government is far more intimate than... say, a murderer is to the president.

Oh yeah. I just noticed his location says McChord AFB which, I presume, is Air Force Base.

[Darmago]

To the end that they would not lie to you? Their lies about the WMD's are enough to prove that wrong.

only a stupid government tells all of the truth all of the time. Lies are one of the most effective way of influencing the ingnorant masses (and don't you go telling me that America doesnt have any ignorant masses) so that they don't do something stupid... like say an all out revolt. You are also guessing that George Bush isnt stupid enough to hear the truth of weapon inspectors and others over that of the Media. The Media works the government like a marionette, pulling strings, and influencing the masses, the government dances the tune to keep people, if not happy, then semi-content with the way the government is now.

Here's what I beleive. G.B. and friends are trying to orchestrate things over in the mid-east so that he can get rich and live in the post-apocalyptic world he caused with enough amenities to last out his life...

maybe not that last part, but up to the get rich is what I beleive.

this might have caused G.B. and co to go as far as to give a lot of money to certain terrorist overlords to launch an attack on america to start a war, I don't know. And personally I have better things to do than watch a 2 hour documentary and rant to you about polyticks

[Cpt.Chronic]

Both, because the President IS the Commander-In-Chief and hence, I am awnserable to him more so that almost everyone on this forum.
So just because you work for him means that you must believe and agree with everything he says? It means his and your actions are one? I repeat: you are not Bush. You are your own person. You have your own mind. Do not let your mind, thoughts, and actions be controlled by anyone else. Do not dismiss facts, common sense, and the ability to reason because of the words of certain individuals or organizations, no matter who that individual or organization is. The responsibility that every person has for their own thoughts and actions can not be denied.

[Ubergopher]

No, you are right and I've read essays on both sides and looked at stats ect ect ect and I've drawn the conclusion that 9/11 was executed by terrorists not working with and or for the United States goverment.

So just because you work for him means that you must believe and agree with everything he says?
My agreement is not neccessary for my obedience, and that is all is required. My oath says to follow the orders of those appointed over me. It doesn't say "to follow the orders of those appointed over me as long as I agree with it."

[Cpt.Chronic]

I'm just going to reply to this one comment because your other comments are obviously just trying to provoke me and have nothing to do with the topic.

Never said I had anything, but my bullshit meter flew off the charts at this thread.
Please specifiy exactly what it was that made your "bullshit meter" fly off the charts? The only thing you've accomplished in this thread is successfully avoiding every single point the video (or myself) have made about the topic at hand while spewing generalizations and insults in my direction. It's really quite pathetic.

[kongurous]

I'm just going to reply to this one comment because your other comments are obviously just trying to provoke me and have nothing to do with the topic.

Smarter than I thought. Still, you're a conspiracy theorist, plus you can't help but respond to all of my posts. You've got a compulsive need. That's why you're such a good lol-cow.

Please specifiy exactly what it was that made your "bullshit meter" fly off the charts?

Uh... you posted this thread?

You're posting this shit and actually believing it. The only thing you've accomplished in this thread is successfully avoiding every single point the video (or myself) have made about the topic at hand while spewing generalizations and insults in my direction. It's really quite pathetic.

Two things.

1) I haven't spewed generalizations.

2) You're the pathetic one if you truly believe this. Popular Mechanics, snopes, hell even Maddox have debunked the foundations of nearly every, if not every, 9/11 conspiracy theory out there. Give it up; you're wrong.

[Cpt.Chronic]

No, you are right and I've read essays on both sides and looked at stats ect ect ect and I've drawn the conclusion that 9/11 was executed by terrorists not working with and or for the United States goverment.
As have I, although I have come to a differing conclusion than your own. Maybe we could discuss those differences?


My agreement is not neccessary for my obedience, and that is all is required. My oath says to follow the orders of those appointed over me. It doesn't say "to follow the orders of those appointed over me as long as I agree with it."
Ok, if I agree to not talk about your actions, would you at least talk about your thoughts, preferably your thoughts pertaining to the video?

[Cpt.Chronic]

Not one person has commented on anything said in the video, not even to discredit it :/

Has anyone even watched past the first few minutes?

[Skullflower]

Not one person has commented on anything said in the video, not even to discredit it :/

Has anyone even watched past the first few minutes?

1 hr. in. And then I watched South Park.

[Cpt.Chronic]

1 hr. in. And then I watched South Park.
Only 1 hour to go. "You can do it!"

[SHISHKABOB]

Hey Cpt. Chronic, from the posts that I've seen, I don't think anyone really cares about this whole conspiracy theory you've brought up. I've seen a part of this movie before and it war boring as pie. I really doubt that the government was behind the planes hitting the WTC's and the pentagon. Bush may be a bastard, but he doesn't kill his own citizens.