WTH is APM anyway?

[blupp74]

Yes, yes, I know..."actions per minute".

Thing is, since I started using PP I see my apm is around 60-70.
Reading this forum, I see people well over 100.

A few nights ago I faced some person, beat the crap out of him.
Watched the rep. He had over 200 APM.
What the hell do you do that takes 200 actions per minute, and still get beaten by a 60 APM player?

Another guy had over 150 APM the first 30 seconds!
Seriously...you have 1 overlord and 4 drones, and a hatchery.
What can you do that requires 150 APM then?

Ok, maybe he was "warming up". I still kicked his butt.

My conclusion is that high APM is so highly overrated it's not even worth discussing (except for telling people it's not worth discussing, obviously).
To me the concept of "improving your apm" is just....silly.
Better to put the actions you DO make to better use.

[Aqo]

There are people who get up to 500 apm. It's not a measure of how good you play, but it is important to (as if, 'for') see(ing) what the person does.

With four drones and one ovie, you need to set a waypoint, put the hatch in a group, give the overlord shift commands, scatter the drones, double check everything... apm IS the way to perfection; you can't use it as a measure because some people just like to click a lot.

[MatGeo]

There are people who get up to 500 apm. It's not a measure of how good you play, but it is important to (as if, 'for') see(ing) what the person does.

With four drones and one ovie, you need to set a waypoint, put the hatch in a group, give the overlord shift commands, scatter the drones, double check everything... apm IS the way to perfection; you can't use it as a measure because some people just like to click a lot.

Ya some people like to raise their apm a lot by randomly clicking on the map then they tell everyone they had 650 apm... :/

It is a mesure of skill as long as it is not faked...

[blupp74]

Ya some people like to raise their apm a lot by randomly clicking on the map then they tell everyone they had 650 apm... :/

It is a mesure of skill as long as it is not faked...

Seriously though...
1# select hatchery
2# built drone
3# select all drones
4# - 10# split them to minerals
11# assign ovie to hotkey
12# send it to scout
13# set rally point for hatchery

13 actions. Do that in 3 seconds, you're up to 260 APM.
Sure, if you're a gosu-guy with fingers like techno-jello on crack, you can do that. But there are 57 seconds left of the first minute. To keep that APM you'd have to do tons of more actions. And your ovie is just floating where he's going...the drone is not done for another 15 seconds, and your other drones are just mining... So how does that justify the actions necessary to uphold that apm, unless you're spamming incredibly much?
Or maybe he was so impatient, he had to check the progress of his drone 7 times per second. Or double-check the rally-point 14 times more.

[blupp74]

There are people who get up to 500 apm. It's not a measure of how good you play, but it is important to (as if, 'for') see(ing) what the person does.

With four drones and one ovie, you need to set a waypoint, put the hatch in a group, give the overlord shift commands, scatter the drones, double check everything... apm IS the way to perfection; you can't use it as a measure because some people just like to click a lot.

In the first minute, you really don't need the amount of actions that make 200 APM. No way. Spamming HAS to be part of it.
There are a limited amount of actions that can be made, and if you do them all in 5 seconds you have nothing else to do for half a minute.

...and for 2 equally skilled players, when it comes to macro and tactics, maybe the one with higher apm would win. But what does 200+ apm help when I still win over them?
I'm just saying that if you want to get better apm, get it when you're happy with your macro and tactics for attack/counter/defense. Because without that, apm won't matter at all.

[lammas]

yes yes anyone who has 200 apm yet is not top player outside korea spams for sure. some spam more some less. Also dont mix apm and speed. Apm is apm rating speed is ability to move faster and to multitask better. apm doesnt matter a fuck but speed does. Or actually 400 apm gives you good reaction times but you can have just fine reactions with 150 or 80 apm too.

[Siege_Commander]

So it doesnt matter, speed does? Good. i have like 50:P

[Ahzz]

well that does tell something, but it doesn't matter really much. Anyone with less than 80 apm cant usually be very good.

[Siege_Commander]

:( aww ahzzy. that hurt.

[blupp74]

Yeah, that REALLY hurt. *sob*

[U-238]

Well it might hurt but that's the way it is. BWlauncher has an APM Live feature, try and use it and play as fast as you can. I'm sure you'll find that your speed inceases over time. Mine did, I started with an APM of 60 and now I'm around 150 each game.

[Siege_Commander]

:( im around 50-60

[U-238]

Well start working on it. I improved mine against computers. That way I wasn't actually playing people and end up screwing up.

[Spdstr]

idk my APM, nor do I care. Like you people have said, it's about "efficiency" or "speed", not how many times you click or perform an action.

Whenever I played Protoss, I used a sneaky tactic that hardly ANYONE expects, thus winning in under 5 minutes. Does that mean my "APM" is throught he roof, or does it just mean I'm more efficient with my actions? You decide.

~ Clint

[Aqo]

Sneaky Protoss tactic in five minutes? You mean a zealot rush?

[Spdstr]

I mean in under 3 minutes, and it's a TYPE of Zealot rush, but it's not as noob ;).

Gets 9/10 of Zerg players EVERY time.

~ Clint

[own3d0406]

In Korea they had replays where you can see what the player is doing, EVERYTHING. In the beggining he clicked his hatchery about 80 times, but when he was macroing and microing, he was lightning fast.

[B.A.Baracus]

Meh, apm helps you multi-task & micro, its important, but not the most important. Blupp your right to focus on your mac, as thats far more important then other stuff, such as micro.

I just really started playing hardcore daily about 4 weeks ago, and my apm went from low to around 100, and I'm happy with that for now. As for apm live, it helps me monitor my pace, if I notice its dipping I can get back on task.

So only really worry about apm if you see it slowing down from your normal speed during a match, if you keep an eye on it you know when your slacking and need to get the led out.
Of course it changes depending on who your playing, like when I'm playing MG I become alot faster, however when I'm playing someone like protogod, it slows to about 80 for obvious reasons:P

[Siege_Commander]

? Cuz he sucks?:P

[MidnightGladius]

Spdstr, you talking about a proxy 3gate rush? Those things are easy as heck to beat if you don't overreact and do something stupid.

And yep, blupp, you got it about right. APM is less useful than it is indicative of potential skill.

[MatGeo]

I mean in under 3 minutes, and it's a TYPE of Zealot rush, but it's not as noob ;).

Gets 9/10 of Zerg players EVERY time.

~ Clint

Describe this sneaky tactic plz....

[Aqo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlNo1tSrzGg&search=starcraft

^- That's what high APM is.

[blupp74]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlNo1tSrzGg&search=starcraft

^- That's what high APM is.

yes, yes, I already know what high apm is. And on the battlefield, late game, I can absolutely see that the more you can control your units (requiring higher apm) the better the fight will go.

I was just saying that early game (especially in the first minute) an apm of 200 is just stupid. Unless you need it to "warm up". Secondly, I was saying that while high apm is good (if you do useful things with it), it's better to focus on managing your economy and resources than to get all worked up because you have an apm below 100. If you win most games you play, you've obviously doing something better than your opponents, despite low apm.

[MidnightGladius]

Most APM counters don't count the first 2 minutes, I think...

[U-238]

No most don't because the first 2 minutes are when most people spam the most. However look at it this way bluppy. Selecting your hatch, hitting "s" then "d" then selecting your drones and telling them to mine and then getting a perfect split and doing all this as quckly as possible gives you a relativly high apm right off the bat. Add to that the fact that you're bouncing between your ovies and scouting drone and hatchery and checking on building statuses and such and it's not too hard to maintain a high apm.

Most people do spam in the early part of them game though because when they really need that 400 apm they won't have to speed up and make themselves uncomfortable and end up screwing other things up because they're trying to play faster and focusing too much on one thing.

[WickedImposter]

i saw slayerz_boxer 1st person view rep. he spammed alot in the first few minutes. and i mean A LOT it got to a point where all i heard was the blip when you click. however when it got into late game he managed to use those actions effectively

[Siege_Commander]

Dude, i think all pros click on there workers non stop for the first few minutes:P

[own3d0406]

High APM on fastest game speed is hard. Ill be microing my units and accidentaly attack my own units :/ or sometimes press the wrong button like vs instead of va for build armory, then when my opponent goes carriers Ill have 30 tanks, 50 vultures and 0 goliaths.

[Siege_Commander]

lol. I hate when that happens. One time v my frined, i had two starports and no armory. 1/2 v 0/0 :(

[Spdstr]

Heh, not telling my secret sneak attack cuz it's my noob secret ^.^.

Also, like they said late-game is where it matters ^.^.

(I've been called a map hacker because I win with my strat, it's just so funny when peeps lose to a toss player in under 4 mins, especially Zerg.)

~ Clint

[Siege_Commander]

Hah. show us a rep of your "secret sneak attack" and we will belive you.

[WickedImposter]

lol. reps solve everything. and owned, i agree with you. its just so dam hard because, before you know it, you pressed ba instead of va (i did that once) and then, before i knew it, the acad was done. thats 150 mins wasted.

[U-238]

It's not really hard. You just need to keep a cool head and know what you're doing. The "B" and "V" can get mixed up but if you watch yourself you;ll find you won't e making those kinda mistakes.

Also as a reference I watched my apm while doing my drone build/worker split and it was up around 300 just after I told the ovy to scout. Apm is a average gauge of how many actions per minute you're currently going. YOu may not be doing 300 actions per minute but if you do something really fast (like your initial build/split) it reads as 300 apm because that's what you'd reach if you kept moving at your current rate.

[Siege_Commander]

Oh. so thats why oh. mmmkay, i tried rasing my apm one time, clickin on everything, how finished is my fact, comsat, make shop research, yeah. It went up like to 55. Then i guess if it shows 85, then im doing everything i just mentiond faster. gotcha:)

[MatGeo]

Oh. so thats why oh. mmmkay, i tried rasing my apm one time, clickin on everything, how finished is my fact, comsat, make shop research, yeah. It went up like to 55. Then i guess if it shows 85, then im doing everything i just mentiond faster. gotcha:)

Apm grows a lot if u click on a build button(build scv or probe or drone) it went up for me from 65 apm to 187 until i got around 7-8 workers, just by clicking i was bored once and i tried spamming to see my apm grow...lol...

[Siege_Commander]

Lol. SO tht why that happened. I built 1 scv and it said apm:100something. I was like holy crap! the 3 secs l8r, 50>.<

[hammocksleeper]

My favorite rush tactic is the TvT fast dropships. :)

drop 2 siege tanks and 4-8 marines in their resources within 7-8 minutes (on a ledge if possible, and you can use dropship to spot for the tanks). no one ever expects this. follow up later with more tanks and marines and the front of their base if need be. I forget the build order, as I haven't done it in three years, but I got the bo off of scorg originally. basically you squeeze in the gas before a time when you would normally build a supply depot, i think.

[Siege_Commander]

Lol. Im not going to sc.org for that, but mebbe someone here knows.(eh middy? Lammy? Ahzz?)

[own3d0406]

Lol. Im not going to sc.org for that, but mebbe someone here knows.(eh middy? Lammy? Ahzz?) Dont go there at all, sc.org is full of noobs with weird tactics

[Siege_Commander]

Hello,"lol. Im not going to sc.org for that" i just said that own3d

[hammocksleeper]

bear in mind this was probably four years ago...scorg was much different back then (and also the strat database has been completely deleted at least once since then)

[Siege_Commander]

Aww. too bad.:(

[own3d0406]

I think scorg is getting worse. I clicked on 2 random terran strats, heres one: When you start as a terran the first you do is start of with marines but there is and advantage as a marine it was the least buldingout of all th races so that is a big advantage in the starcraft world so now u need to build lots of scvs. Reminder:Never build any unit accpet marines dudes this will work if you have thousands of marines the other will make advancede units u may lose plenty of marines but not much becuase if you make 150 marines 6*150= 900 attack in one hit any unit is gone so contact me if you need more specific advanced help thank you see ya! lol : ) Heres another:
Random Tips for Terran Defenders:
If you are Terran, and like to defend, listen up!
?Try to know your opponents style. If he is an AI, he will attack early, in small numbers. If he is human, he may attack early with small numbers, or later with massive numbers! He may even make Nukes early in the game and Nuke you to death.
?Make sure you know your location. If you are playing in the center of the map, build defenses all around you. You will need them. If you are playing in a corner, use the corner to your advantage and build supply depots and such in the corner.
?If you are playing maps like 밨iver Crossing?or 밃 Bridge to Near?use the main place for your advantage. Build units on one side of or on the bridge/s to block off your enemy.
?At the beginning, build Marines, lots of them. Stash up bunkers with them and post one Medic near each one as soon as you can. When a bunker blows up, use the medic to stay alive.
?As you get farther in, build many Wraiths and Ghosts, keep them posted on cliffs, etc. along the path to your base. As the enemy comes, thin them down. When they arrive, make many units cloaked to look like a weak base, then destroy them when they can뭪 shoot back. If there are detectors coming with them, destroy them with the people on the paths.
?Keep Firebats hidden along the path too. When the enemy approaches, explode out and burn them!
?Keep Nukes at hand and destroy the enemy as they approach.
?If you are playing with allies, move your base to them and defend them while they build an army.
?Keep Missile Turrets around your base, about two per bunker if possible and some more on the edges and near resources.
?Spread your army out so they are not caught by surprise when a nuke hits.
?Reinforce every bunker with about two siege tanks to attack from afar. Keep them in siege mode till the enemy is too close.

Remember these tips and you will most likely improve your defense. Good luck!
Sure there may be some good strats but most are just stupid.

[splatt0r]

How do you guys see the APMs anyway?

[own3d0406]

I think you need penguin plug, then when your playing press ctrl alt

[MatGeo]

OMFG those strats are sooo stupid...rines pwn all yea right... tanks pwn rines... reavers pwn rines.... storm pwns rines... guards pwn rines... dark swarm pwns rines... lol and besides who would let u get to 150 rines....

The second sucked just as much i figured out it was crap from the first line... humans may build nukes in early game... wtf that guy thinks that nukes can be early game lol...mid game if u research fast late game for them to be effective and safe to develop...

[PrestonBurke]

Its what APM's are what useful, not how many Apms you have.

The more "Useful" APMS there are, the more likely you will suceed. Of course if your just scanning your units, theres no point to that.

[B.A.Baracus]

guards pwn rines...
Not really.

[Siege_Commander]

You can use the peinguinpug menu(pp is on pgtour.net) or type"\apmlive on"

[MatGeo]

Not really.

Yea but if guards are on cliffs and ramp is blocked with ultras or somethin rines get pwned...

[Siege_Commander]

Rines die with out meds. And are killed by what ppl stated above.

[WickedImposter]

:2cents: heres some money buy another cookie lol. ive got myself a donut. :donut:

anyways there are a lot of retards on scorg. but a lot of ppl are very good there. anyways, mass marines suck later game. and mat, a lot of things pwn rines, not just the ones you stated.

[lammas]

but a lot of ppl are very good there.
name one.

[WickedImposter]

hmm, DFIK, thedutchjelle can beat me, but thats not too good. BST and grim used to go there. middy used to go there. nasty still goes there. alot of us scorg ppl just moved over to WB. more flexible.

[own3d0406]

Hello,"lol. Im not going to sc.org for that" i just said that own3d
Hello, I did not say that, I gave a reason to why you shouldnt go on scorg. Goodbye, please do not make those stupid posts.

WI, notice that you said USED TO. And the number of noob tactics overwhelm the number of good ones. MasterKetchup? was probably the best IMO on scorg, but I dont think he goes there anymore.

[neobowman]

i saw a post from K'tan there once

[Siege_Commander]

hmm, DFIK, thedutchjelle can beat me, but thats not too good. BST and grim used to go there. middy used to go there. nasty still goes there. alot of us scorg ppl just moved over to WB. more flexible.

They are mostly shakuras ppl, and lammy can beat them before i remember my bos:P

[WickedImposter]

ya. im just saying that alot of ppl there arnt noobs. just the majority. anyways, your right, most good ppl are either on WBor shakuras.

[Siege_Commander]

NO. Everyone there is a noob, unless they mainly go to wbs or shak.

[WickedImposter]

you cant say EVERYONE commander. thats like saying EVERYONE on WB plays sc.

[Siege_Commander]

I cant say that, because there are diablo and warcraft and other blizz gaming forums here to. And i can say that at least 96 percent of ppl in sc.org are noobs. I mean come on, you know how many "strats" there are that just say build lotta rines? I havent seen a single BO there.

[WickedImposter]

ya. i guess your right. good thing i switched ^^ actually there are a few BOs ive read there.

[Siege_Commander]

Name one please.

[own3d0406]

BUILD LOTS AND LOTSO FTHEM DRONES, THEN MINE LIKE HELL,THEN BULD GATEWAYS, THEN MAKE 39u7598 MARINES, CONGRATS YOU WION!

(really, there was a BO like that on SCorg)

[WickedImposter]

dont remember them duh. so long ago since ive read strats. but i read one for a gundam rush i think

[own3d0406]

If your looking for BOs and strats, you need to go to sclegacy.

[Siege_Commander]

Nah, right here is much better:)

[WickedImposter]

no actually sclegacy is better than WB strat wise. its spam free lol.

[MatGeo]

BUILD LOTS AND LOTSO FTHEM DRONES, THEN MINE LIKE HELL,THEN BULD GATEWAYS, THEN MAKE 39u7598 MARINES, CONGRATS YOU WION!

Ok...let's examine the situation a little bit... drones belong to Z...gates belong to toss... rines belong to T... :concern:

This is exactly why most of those strats suck...

[WickedImposter]

that was thepoint mat

[own3d0406]

that was thepoint mat
A little change of heart? werent you the one defending scorg?

[WickedImposter]

im defending the site in general, but i agree that there are a lot of noobs there. im changing my mind every time i read a post

[Siege_Commander]

Here. sc.org is crap. end of story. Do not defend it. Even if there is 2 good strats, there are 1000 more shitty ones. So :P*sticks out tounge*

[WickedImposter]

yup. i agree now. ive just read like 5 of the newest strats there. ive commented on them. they are crap. you guys have changed me over. thanks :D

[Gladstone]

sc.org's strategy doesn't realy help you with anything, but maybe even decreases your skills after reading and thinking about them ;).

[WickedImposter]

they are soooo bad. except for some of the strats, like the one posted by lost. but the like, million rine march was just pathetic. i think i even called 1 of the strats "a pathetic excuse for a strat"