Containment & Harrassing

[MatGeo]

OK so i played 2 pgt games and as would be expected i got owned...

1st game ZvP...enemy sair rushed me...i got AA D up so i got over it... then in mid game he starts containing me with goons sairs and zeals....he attacked me before and although i survived my army wasn't to great so he has an advantage on me...my question is: How do i break containment in ZvP??

2nd game pissed me off... ZvT on LT the guy vult harasses my lings...then he wraith harasses my ovies...he puts tanks on cliff and wipes out my nat then he drops his whole army in my base in a place where i couldn't see him... My second question: How do i recognize forms of harrasment: i know u can know enemy is haraasing by scouting but for example i saw at the T gas taken very early...i suspected he was gonna make fact for tanks...vulture was unexpected(bdw how do u counter vult in early game??)... So does early gas in TvZ mean he's going for wraith harass?

Anyways here are the reps(bdw you will need pp to run them or else they might corrupt):

[lammas]

zvt u counter early gas by following (some z can tell iam if talking total bullshit here):

assuming usual fast exp:

1sunken early
put ling in fron of his ramp so that he cant see it but he has to kill it if he wants to attack with early m&m
build sunken to both mineral lines main and natural dont morph them to anything yet.
make evo chamber
btw you are making 2hat muta tech now
if he comes with wraiths morph those 2 colonys to that antiair colonies wtf are they called
if he drops make them into sunkens
if he makes 2tank drop to cliff start making 2 sunkens so close the ramp that they could shoot tanks. you have over so that u see your cliff at this point. muta arrive before natural is killed.

early gas in tvz mean that he is doing
a) fast drop
b) 2tanks drop to cliff
c) wraiths
d) early double upgrades
e) nadas tricksy f e build quite marginal it is.
f) fast m&m
g) fast tech to vessel.
h) fast tank push
i) vulture attack
j) 4gol drop (only in isle maps)
there were most i think
or then u just mass speedling and kill him.

[MatGeo]

early gas in tvz mean that he is doing
a) fast drop
b) 2tanks drop to cliff
c) wraiths.

Exactly what that dude did... k thx i'll keep your advices in mind but why should i put lings in front of his ramp??? I'm trying to break containment not contain enemy...or was the idea to contain him before he can contain me?

Thx for the 2 colonies in min line thing...it could really help me vs sair rushes or rever drops...like midy once did to me... :/

[lammas]

nono idea of putting 1ling there is to make sure that u dont get surpirsed by early m&m attack. if u have ling there u will still have time to make sunkens and to block your ramp.

[blupp74]

nono idea of putting 1ling there is to make sure that u dont get surpirsed by early m&m attack. if u have ling there u will still have time to make sunkens and to block your ramp.

And a very good trick it is too, which can be used by any race.
When I've found my opponents base, and if i decide hanging around there will do no more good (ie if I go back he will kill my scv in no time) I usually leave it outside his main, but a bit back (so any tank he sieges on his ramp won't kill it). This way I get an early warning if he should send ground troops.

When I've teched/massed some, and he's still not coming, I send the SCV off to make an expansion somewhere.
(By then I'll have some def, plus I've scanned him already, and I'm getting ready for my own attack).

All this is of course unless I go for early attack myself, in which the SCV is put to use by building turrets outside his main.

[MatGeo]

Oh k i get the idea of ling in front of ramp...k thx guys i really appreciate it...

If anyone can answer my first question about how to break containment in ZvP plz post it...

[blupp74]

Oh k i get the idea of ling in front of ramp...k thx guys i really appreciate it...

If anyone can answer my first question about how to break containment in ZvP plz post it...

That would depend on what the containment consists of, and when you get contained (where you, and he, is in the tech tree).
For sairs, goons and zeals, hydras, lings and lurkers could work. A spore colony or two at your choke could be an idea.
Or mutalisks and scourge. But I guess you'd have to have a good number of them. Scourge the sairs (while attacking with mutas, I guess). They're probably a bit closer to kill off the ovies, so they won't be protected by the goons. When the sairs are gone, kill the goons. Then you have free hits on the zeals.
Of course, he'll bring reinforcements, but only as long as he finds it worthwhile. And if you keep killing off his containing units, he'll be more reluctant to try to keep it up.

Another thing you could do is to sneak a drone out early (or use the one you scout with, when initial scouting is done). Instead of taking it back to your main, take it to some other mineral/gas spot. If you get contained and can't break it, use it to start a hatchery.

But I don't play Z, so it's hard to tell how fast you can get lurker or muta, compared to how fast P gets goons and sairs. Best thing to do would be watching replays of that matchup.

[U-238]

Well ZvP isn't my most favorite matchup but the main goal of ZvP is that Z needs to contain P not vice versa. Allthough it happens it's a best idea to get out and expo early enough so that he can't slow you down too much. What you normaly want to try and do is to get a few lurks up and ready to contain P for a while untill he gets obbys. This also doubles good for the sair situation because you'll have hydra ability. After you burrow in them lurks start your tech to either muta (not a good idea if he has many cannons around his expo or has more than 1-2 high templar at the expo) or you can stick with hydra/lurk/ling with scourge and continue the contain. Meanwhile expand at least twice (preferably try to take as many gas expos as you possibly can.) and start your hive tech. Remember not to forget your contain. A thing that can really bode well for a Z contain vs P is to lay a hatchery just behind the head of the contain and then when it's done drop sunks and spores generously around to support your contain. This works relativly well since P not only will have to fight through your force but will have to deal with the sunks/spores too. ofc it's kinda risky since it's early game but if you can keep the hatch well enough hidden behind your contain then it's really effective.