Help With zerg.

[bntd]

I used to be protoss but now i am zerg. I can put out about 12 hydras a minute or so but always get owned. Can you guys give me some ideas on how to get better with zerg so i dont get owned.

[Ender]

Moved.

[Ahzz]

your question is too vague, and later on 12 hydras is a very small amount... Besides later on just hydras will do absolutely nothing.

What I suggest is that you look up pro replays and try to figure how you play. Your current skill isn't good enough to give any real advice. Also play 1v1.
As for the replays,
sc.gosugamers.net/replays

Dunno if I typed the link right ;o

[Siege_Commander]

nope ahzzy, you spelled it wrong. Your topic is too vauge, match up and map, scenairo plz.

[WickedImposter]

lol. the proper grammer is spelt but anyways, later on if your going to go hydras get dark swarm too. and commander you spelt scenario wrong :P

[HyperDemonic]

wich are you talking about ZvP or ZvT or ZvZ,
if your talking ZvP i use a rush of alot ultras and a shit load of lings with some air support if needed

[U-238]

Dunno if I typed the link right ;o

do you mean this (http://sc.gosugamers.net/replays.php) link? I so you typed it right.

[Ahzz]

yes, that. That's one good example

[PrestonBurke]

12 Hyrdas and they got owned?

Well of course they will get owned, in B.Net if your facing the Uber-great players like above.

Zerg rely on numbers instead of indivual strengh. So of course you will be massing your units, since your massing, your opponent will take advantage of this fact and use splash damage units againgst your troops.

Tanks, Templars, firebats.... All these units deliever splash damage along with others.

12 Hyrdas is not a good attack force, a Good Zerg ground attack force should be 1 or 2 dozen zerglings (as cannon fodder) and 2 hyrdra platoons. Of course you will need to use tactics and ariel support to make a really effective attack with zerg. Like dropping Lurkers at your opponents flanks while rushing lings in the front.

BTW: During one on one matches, your techs will be around level 2. So you'll only have lings, lisk, lurkers, and mutas usually. Matches can go even longer and extend to Guardians, ultras and defliers. But smart opponents will never let you get that far in your techs.

[B.A.Baracus]

12 Hyrdas is not a good attack force, a Good Zerg ground attack force should be 1 or 2 dozen zerglings (as cannon fodder) and 2 hyrdra platoons. Of course you will need to use tactics and ariel support to make a really effective attack with zerg. Like dropping Lurkers at your opponents flanks while rushing lings in the front.

BTW: During one on one matches, your techs will be around level 2. So you'll only have lings, lisk, lurkers, and mutas usually. Matches can go even longer and extend to Guardians, ultras and defliers. But smart opponents will never let you get that far in your techs.

Naw Azn, your attack force depends on what match up your playing.
I only use hydras in pvz, but you also need early lurks for contain against toss. Upgraded hydras can do wonders vs toss, such as storm dodging.

In tvz hydra are really only good at stopping drops, M&M rips them apart. Every hydra you make in this MU should eventually become a lurker. Also you need to get defilers as soon as possible in tvz, even though their far up the tech tree, you can get them before T takes 3rd expo, unless they take it early.

In zvz, they just suck, too slow yada yada. But I have seen people do a hydra/lurk rush vs muta ling, which can work if you do it fast. Since you can get ahead in hydra production before muts come.
This is very risky business though so be safe and stick to muta ling.

And last, guardians suck, don't use them. Guardians are really only for fun when your opponent is almost dead anyway, they get wuped too easy.
They can be useful, like every unit, but only in very, very rare situations.

[Dawlish1]

lol. the proper grammer is spelt but anyways, later on if your going to go hydras get dark swarm too. and commander you spelt scenario wrong :P

you need to work on your spelling too :P (grammar)

[Ahzz]

And last, guardians suck, don't use them. Guardians are really only for fun when your opponent is almost dead anyway, they get wuped too easy.
I wouldn't say "very rare"
guardians aren't a bad build any time when the terran does 2 fax or 3 fax tanks. This is because they won't have proper anti-stuff for it, maybe 1-2 vessels tops, and rest is marines. since you should have lurks and zerglings and maybe a few scourges as support, they really pwn.

[Siege_Commander]

Yeah. wouldnt that force the T to either go more vessels, or gols?

[B.A.Baracus]

I wouldn't say "very rare"
guardians aren't a bad build any time when the terran does 2 fax or 3 fax tanks. This is because they won't have proper anti-stuff for it, maybe 1-2 vessels tops, and rest is marines. since you should have lurks and zerglings and maybe a few scourges as support, they really pwn.

I like gaurds, its just they just never seem to be of any usel unless the games already over.
Could you post a detailed description on what T build to use them on, and when?
It would help everyone in this thread:)

[U-238]

better yet how about a few replays? (hope you don't mind ahzzy:D)

[B.A.Baracus]

Ok, quick question.
I noticed that I only tech speed lings in zvz. How effective are they in zvp/zvt?
Do they make any difference early game, or should I just keep ignoring them?

[Ahzz]

.... speedlings is a MUST. zvt and zvp usually when you got spire or den comin. depends.

[MidnightGladius]

Da to what Ahzz said. Speedlings are awesome. I get them myself after the first batch of muts or after lurker tech is done and I have my first 4 lurkers coming.

[B.A.Baracus]

Ok, when should I start upgrades? I usually get first evo chamber right before queens nest, then second after hive.
Is this too late?

[Ahzz]

if you do it like this you will be behind by upgrades which really does count. that might work if you do double evo before queen nest, or one evo before lurks or something

[B.A.Baracus]

Evo before lurks, that early? Ok, armor first?

[WickedImposter]

you need to work on your spelling too :P (grammar)

i never said my grammer was good ><. anyways, why would you go evo before lurk? i dont notice a real upgrade that could help lurks that you would need, unlike the +1 armor for marines (3 hit kill lurk/sunk), or +1 atk for zlots against zlings ( i believe its 2 hit kill). also, ive seen toss go mass goons, no temp near endgame 2v2 lt, and the zerg went guards. that guard attack finished the game.

[Ahzz]

Evo before lurks, that early? Ok, armor first?
well that's when you should start evo chamber if you're only gonna do one at first, but start carapace upgrade only after you've got your lurks morphing/ready.

[U-238]

I usually do evo's either one before the den (as ahzzy said) or do two just after starting a spire if I can afford the minerals.

[blupp74]

i never said my grammer was good ><. anyways, why would you go evo before lurk? i dont notice a real upgrade that could help lurks that you would need, unlike the +1 armor for marines (3 hit kill lurk/sunk), or +1 atk for zlots against zlings ( i believe its 2 hit kill). also, ive seen toss go mass goons, no temp near endgame 2v2 lt, and the zerg went guards. that guard attack finished the game.

...then again, if +1 armor upgrades for marines help against lurker, wouldn't +1 attack for lurker negate the terran armor upgrade?

[MatGeo]

wich are you talking about ZvP or ZvT or ZvZ,
if your talking ZvP i use a rush of alot ultras and a shit load of lings with some air support if needed

I've never encountered a RUSH made of ultras and lings...if u're talking about ultra/ling... i'm sorry but that's not a rush...

Blupp: yes +1 att for lurk negates +1 arm for rines which means they'll get owned in 2 hits...

[WickedImposter]

ohh yes thats true blupp. and ahzz, would it be smart to get +1 armor for lurks early game? i mean, it dosent really help, and you can use the 100/100 somewhere else. just wondering

[Ahzz]

armor is for lings too, later game, and possible hydras. not lurks alone. and its 150/150. You don't hafta do it every time, but yes, that's a possibility

[WickedImposter]

hmm. ya +1 ling armor would help. but i dont play zerg. i was just wondering if it was neccessary to spend the 150/150 early on.

[Siege_Commander]

lol if you dont play z, why you askin?

[MidnightGladius]

Armor for lings is to counter, mainly, attack up for zeals... otherwise, your lings get slaughtered, fast - 2-hit kills from +1 zeals.

[TheBlackAbyss]

So, basically, if your opponent is P and upps attack, you up armor, and if is T and upps D, you up attack? (This is if they fit the roles described before; Marines and Zealots and whatnot.)

[Ahzz]

you wont know for sure what he's upgrading, and in matchups such as zvt you use lurkers and lings, so if you upgrade one attack, other wont benefit from it. I usually recommend doing carapace first. How ever, if you're doing double evo chamber upgrades you might wanna do carapace and missile weapon, this way he wont benefit from the armor since lurks will still kill rines with 2 hits. but on the other hand, if you're gonna do ultras or fast-ish tech, I might recommend melee attack, since your units still benefit from it.

Blah, very confusingly explained. sry bout that

[U-238]

Hm, well I'll try and clear it up some for you ahzzy ol pal.


Basicly what he's saying is that upgrades come to late to effectivly scout and add to this the fact that you can't see what he's upgrading. So you do your upgrades according to your tech. Armor usually comes first because all units can benefit from that whereas the attack upgrades must be specific to your tech. Now you could go 3 evo and do all 3 but unless you're planning of having alota gas and going ultra/lurk/ling then you probably don't need all 3. If you're planning on ultra/ling go melee attack. But if you're planning on lurk/ling the get range. Why range? Because the lurk has the more powerful attack and should be upd first. However if you get all 3 range ups before the game is over then start getting the melee ups too. However they're not that important because cracklings, even when un upd, are still decent. Hope that clears it up some more.

[Siege_Commander]

Yeah. The cut of cooldown makes up for the -3 atk i think.