How to stop turtling

[TitanWing]

I am a primarily Terran player who is new to b.net.
I need advice on how to take the fight to the enemy rather than wait for it to come to me.

I'd also like to know how to defend expos.

[Siege_Commander]

um, attack? if they are your nats, put some tanks on your cliffs, and if v zerg put turretes to stop muta harrass.

[IrishDutchman]

It's always useful to have a bunch of fast units hanging around to harass. Then you can keep the enemy busy when you don't have the resources to launch a full on attack.

For T the best harassment units are probably wraiths and vultures. Having about five of each attacking some random unprotected part of his base every couple of minutes should give you a good idea of how your enemy has teched and how large his army is. This way you can judge when to attack.

[Siege_Commander]

Oh and vs toss, you can vult drop them, vs t you can gol drop them, and v z i think its 6 rines, 1 med and 1 bat.

[MidnightGladius]

MU, scenario, and map, please. It's just too much to go through, otherwise.

[U-238]

Yea, without any match-up (mu) to go by it's so very hard to say anything because there's so many strats based on a single mu that it could take pages to explain them all.

[WickedImposter]

with expos usually 3 turrets, a bunker and a tank in min line. also, always drop and do vult raids. both are very effective at slowing down the enemy

[Siege_Commander]

If you cant micro to do enough damage than is = to vultures, then dont. Focus on Macro 4vluts= 300 min, so you should kill at least 7 probes. The good thing TvP is that its pretty much up to the terran when to start the fight(when he pushes, oviously)

[TitanWing]

MU, scenario, and map, please. It's just too much to go through, otherwise.
Um...1v1 LT Melee.

And thx! I'll try harrassing.

[MidnightGladius]

I meant race Matchup. That helps, but doesn't really tell me a lot.

[Ninja95]

Good stradegy if your zerg
Have, like 5 drones mining minerals and make a spawning pool IMMEDIATLY.
Get, like 6 zerglings, and go straight for the enemy base, destroy his fighting units first ( marines, zealots) he should have 1 or 2, 5 at max, then destroy barracks, then scv, then command, then refinary, if he has one.

[TitanWing]

Terran vs. Protoss

[Cpt.Chronic]

Try a joyo rush. It's a good tactic for early pressure, and is one of my favorite openings.

Start it by teching fast to tanks like usual, get 2 factories and make 3 tanks (the 2nd and 3rd tanks should finish around the same time). Take those 3 tanks, 5-6 marines that you've been making when u have the 50 to spare, and attack. You can also bring a couple scvs with u to either attack or repair your tanks. So as soon as you can, after u make the 3rd tank, research vult speed and vult mines, and rally your 2 factories (notice how you don't get seige in this build) to your opponents choke. Your first vults should arrive about the same time as your rines/tanks get to his choke. Focus fire when they attack, taking out one goon at a time, and run vults round to lay mines behind his troops, and then run vults into his base if his ramp is open to try to pick of miners. If you get into his base with vults, might as well lay some mines in front of the gateways as well. Expand while you're doing this and you will have a good size advantage even if your attack didn't kill him or even cripple him because it will have delayed his expo.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Ok, I actually just went online and used this strat I just described, and I used it vs. someone that I've never won against....I'm seriously like 0-15 with him....well, now 1-15.

[TitanWing]

Lol!
Kratom's good, I've played him.
Actually he was my first game.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Lol!
Kratom's good, I've played him.
Actually he was my first game.
You have? What's your nick on b.net?

...and u realize I'm Kratom, right?

[TitanWing]

You have? What's your nick on b.net?

...and u realize I'm Kratom, right?
TitanWing

[WickedImposter]

Good stradegy if your zerg
Have, like 5 drones mining minerals and make a spawning pool IMMEDIATLY.
Get, like 6 zerglings, and go straight for the enemy base, destroy his fighting units first ( marines, zealots) he should have 1 or 2, 5 at max, then destroy barracks, then scv, then command, then refinary, if he has one.

LOL! thats like a noob strat 5 pool. also, thats not a good strat, as its an all out rush. its a do or die pretty much. also, thats easily countered by terran with rines. jsut send in workers to soak up dmg, and have rine take potshots. in my opinion, one of the most risky and flawed zerg opening ever.

[TitanWing]

Good stradegy if your zerg
Have, like 5 drones mining minerals and make a spawning pool IMMEDIATLY.
Get, like 6 zerglings, and go straight for the enemy base, destroy his fighting units first ( marines, zealots) he should have 1 or 2, 5 at max, then destroy barracks, then scv, then command, then refinary, if he has one.
I don't want to learn Zerg cheese, I want to learn Terran offense.:shiftyl:

[Cpt.Chronic]

Have you tried the joyo rush yet?

[WickedImposter]

hmm. not sure who your talking to chronic, but ill try the joyo rush the next time i PvT

[lammas]

other great rushy build for tvp:

make 2fac. addon for other and other only. pump marines untill u have. upgrade mines and make vultures. when you have 4 vultures attack with them and 4marines. at this poit toss usually has 2goons in front of your base and youll get at least other killed before they get back to main. when you reach his base put all mines (also ake sure you lay a lot of mines to his exp). After attacking make 2 vults more and when u get 400 expand. If your opponent has made 2gate goon with range he will be contained and itll take long time before he can get observers to break out.

Note that if you see opponent making 1gate robo you can make joyo instead of this because it is a lot stronger against 1gate robo build.

[WickedImposter]

thanks lammas. but during that time, i assume you dont wait and do other things with your vultures, like attempt a worker raid or something?

[lammas]

during what time?

[Cpt.Chronic]

during what time?
I think what he's getting at, is what do you do with your vults after you lay mines to contain?

[lammas]

oh... well you cant really do any harasment with them because toss has 6goons sitting at his choke point then. i just drive them back to my main to defend against possible drops.

[WickedImposter]

kk. and chronic was right. that was what i was talking about. would vultures even be effective against drops without mines? i mean usually its like lurks, reavs, or something thats a drop, and vults deal only 5 dmg to large targets

[Siege_Commander]

Im sure the toss may attempt to drop dts. If they actually do get in, i think vults do full damage vs them.

[raylu]

Nope; SCC (http://battle.net/scc/protoss/units/darktemplar.shtml) says they're small.

Try a simple dropship harass. This is a slightly old game so I was kinda newb back then (notice how his probes got away from the bottom left expansion), but it worked.

[MidnightGladius]

Yep, and vults do full damage to small units... no contradiction, raylu.

[Ninja95]

I don't want to learn Zerg cheese, I want to learn Terran offense.:shiftyl:

Cheese is good!
I was doing a 3-way game against comp, I killed 1 of them using this stradegy. He had 2 marines and like 7 workers. Easy kill against 8 zerglings.
I had 5 left. I attacked the other comp, I destroyed all his scvs, but lost my lings.
I already had about 12 of them, rushed the enemy, and won.
Easy.:smirk:

[Siege_Commander]

Hes Terran, and that wont always work against a real bnet player.

[MidnightGladius]

Especially not 3 of them. =/

[raylu]

Yep, and vults do full damage to small units... no contradiction, raylu.
Oops, dunno what I was thinking.

On a completely unrelated note, why are "Fragementation grenades" not explosive?

[MidnightGladius]

Contemporary fragmentation grenades don't have all that much of an explosive charge - the damage is done by the fragments and shrapnel flying all over the place. They are indeed anti-infantry "concussive" weapons.

[raylu]

Oops, sorry. I know nothing about any of this. Real life is overrated :P.

[TitanWing]

Thanks for all the help.
At this point I'm good enough to learn my own strats.

Congratulate me on my 3 win in a row!

[Siege_Commander]

congrats titan. remember the game we played today? i put ghosts under mustys rax and nuked. and he said he couldnt c the dot lol. ownage.

[WickedImposter]

lol nice scommander. anyways ninja are you noob or something? ANY CPU IS EASY, WHETHER YOU 5 POOL OR NOT! believe me, try 5 pool on any average skilled person and you will lose. and somewhere up there you said that they could have 5 military units max. if you 5 pool, i highly doubt that a person can get 5 military units in that itme. also, 5 military units of terran or protoss will own 5 pool, SO STOP POISENING TITAN WITH YOUR TALKS OF CHEESE

[MidnightGladius]

6pool 2sunk rush ZvZ is one of the more deadly BOs, if mains are close and you scout correctly. If they do even 9pool, you can get sunkens morphing when their first lings aren't even done.

[Siege_Commander]

lol and scv> speedlings/lings

[MidnightGladius]

If they go something like 6pool and manage to kill all but 4 of your SCVs, you're still behind. If you can keep most of your SCVs alive, though, you'll be ahead.

Isn't that kind of obvious?

[Ahzz]

ANY CPU IS EASY, WHETHER YOU 5 POOL OR NOT!
...if you're talking about blizz comp, yes. otherwise it might be a no

[Siege_Commander]

Lol not true. Ahzzy made a kick ass comp that plays like ppl on bnnet or pgtour. Try it.

[WickedImposter]

i meant blizz comp. i know about ahzzs comp ai, and other ppl make uber hard ai too. and i asked him for a copy.