Tough luck with carriers

[BowYoshi]

Im a zerg player and im having tough luck facing people who get a defence made of cannons and batteries+zealots while massing up carriers.
I tried using over 30 scourges and still cant kill them all.
any help?

[Siege_Commander]

Hydra+defiler+many expos But If you have alotta expos, go 3/3 devourer or... I dunno

[KingZao]

Like SC said, I'd go expand like hell and get mass 3-3 Hydra w/ some defilers. That should work.

[MidnightGladius]

I'm assuming this is not money, and that you're Zerg following the typical 12hatch/12pool build. If you scout cannon expo with blocking gates, put your 3rd hatch at your min only and fast tech to range hydras, pumping speedlings with extra minerals. If they go straight carriers and don't get storm, you can kill off their blocking gates with your hydras. Now, suicide a ling into their cannon wall and send an ovie into their main and see how many cannons they have. If they don't have a lot and are instead teching, keep pumping hydra/ling while starting +1 hydra attack and attacking them with your current force. If you judged correctly, you should be able to either kill their expo (GG) or do a lot of damage to it. If the latter is true, add 2-3 more hatches and keep pumping. Now, simply rinse and repeat, massing hydras and attacking. They might be able to get as many as 4-6 carriers, but they won't have time to max interceptors, and you can just pick the carriers off with your hydras pretty quickly.

If, on the other hand, they have a lot of cannons but no stargate yet, tech mutas and take two more expos. Harass their main mineral line (anyone idiot enough to do quick carrier PvZ will probably put cannons all in their choke, and that might be GG. If not, do as much damage with your initial 12 mutas. Tech hive now, and tech defilers. Upgrade adrenal glands and melee attack. Consume some lings and darkswarm over their cannons. Run in lings. Continue to put dswarms over their cannons and eventually their natural, and they'll die. If they have too many zeals and kill that off somehow (shouldn't be happening when you have 5 expos -_-), get an ultra cavern and start ultra/crax/swarm. That'll own them for sure.

In either case, get speed ovies and take a look at how close they are to getting carriers, or how many carriers they have. Once they get more than 3-4 and you went the second option but haven't killed them, upgrade your spire and start pumping dev/scourge. Clone the scourge and focus fire with devourers. As long as you expo and macro well, you can't lose.

[Siege_Commander]

Just in case you dont know, cracklings or crax are lings with the ardrenal glands and metabolic boost.

[WhiteShade]

Just in case you dont know, cracklings or crax are lings with the ardrenal glands and metabolic boost.
Wow and I was just about to ask what were cracklings...

I usually go hydra\muta against carriers... though I use carriers for base destructions... don't listen to me if you know what's good for you... defend your expos with spores and spores with sunkens... defilers\hydra\muta...

[Siege_Commander]

Im psychic like that.:o And spores cant defend against carrs

[PrestonBurke]

Queens, defliers and hydras.

use your queens to spawn broodlings on there zealots, and since they might have templars, micro your hyrdas well. otherwise plauge there cannons and return with your hydras once there down. then send your force ahead to get there carriars.

Do not waste your Vespene on Scourges, unless your on a money map.

[U-238]

Queens are the real waste of money. -.-

Welll what I'd do is since he's all holed up in his base expand like wildfire and start your upgrades and tech to hydra. The hydra's gotta be one of the best standard units in the game and when fully up'd will shred those zealots and take out most cannons. As for the carriers if he mannages to get any before your hydra's are munching on his probes up'd hydras will shoot em down quite efficently. Just be sure to keep up your macro and monitor your mineing bases so you don't find yourself trying to build hydras with no mins because you've used em all up. -.-

Basicly I've just agreed with what middy stated earlier in a much simpler and country like drawl.:P

I usually go hydra\muta against carriers... though I use carriers for base destructions... don't listen to me if you know what's good for you... defend your expos with spores and spores with sunkens... defilers\hydra\muta...

dude, stop putting yourself down. What's the point of giving advice if you go and tell people not to listen to you? you're posts arn't of bad quality and if there's something that's not right then we'll correct it but you don't need to go around acting like you're a total noob who can't give advice worth a shit.

[MidnightGladius]

Yeah, defiler/hydra/muta can work. It's just not necessary.

[WhiteShade]

Queens are the real waste of money. -.-

Welll what I'd do is since he's all holed up in his base expand like wildfire and start your upgrades and tech to hydra. The hydra's gotta be one of the best standard units in the game and when fully up'd will shred those zealots and take out most cannons. As for the carriers if he mannages to get any before your hydra's are munching on his probes up'd hydras will shoot em down quite efficently. Just be sure to keep up your macro and monitor your mineing bases so you don't find yourself trying to build hydras with no mins because you've used em all up. -.-

Basicly I've just agreed with what middy stated earlier in a much simpler and country like drawl.:P



dude, stop putting yourself down. What's the point of giving advice if you go and tell people not to listen to you? you're posts arn't of bad quality and if there's something that's not right then we'll correct it but you don't need to go around acting like you're a total noob who can't give advice worth a shit.
Yeah, defiler/hydra/muta can work. It's just not necessary.

I keep that in mind... thanks... just not many ever have...

Anyway I guess the combo is a bit excessive but the whole queen idea is a waste if you think about it... broodlings are good for ultra-based units such as tanks but don't waste the mana on zealots that can be taken out with hydras or crax...:P

[IrishDutchman]

Anyway I guess the combo is a bit excessive but the whole queen idea is a waste if you think about it... broodlings are good for ultra-based units such as tanks but don't waste the mana on zealots that can be taken out with hydras or crax...

Yeah, queens ain't worth it for broodlings, but I still use them all the same. Once 36 hydra's pop up under a dark swarm and your carriers get plagued, the obvious option is to retreat. If you ensnare the bastards, you can probably kill a few more.
PS. if they have HT's, you should use spawn broodling.

Something that is lads of fun to do is getting ultra's with fully upgraded carapaces as a distraction. It's overkill, I know, but it takes fucking ages for a carrier to take one down. A Fully upgraded ultra has 5 armour and 400 HP. Interceptors do 9 damage fully upgraded (I think), but only 4 on an ultra.
A carrier has 8 interceptors, bringing the total damage of one attack up to 32. That's not very much compared to their maximum of 72, and the 400 HP's of an ultra.

Excuses for straying OT.

Anyway, if someone bunkers up with cannons in their base, you can expo like mad. A Z player with 5+ expo's against a P with none, is at a huge advantage.

[WhiteShade]

Yeah, queens ain't worth it for broodlings, but I still use them all the same. Once 36 hydra's pop up under a dark swarm and your carriers get plagued, the obvious option is to retreat. If you ensnare the bastards, you can probably kill a few more.
PS. if they have HT's, you should use spawn broodling.

Something that is lads of fun to do is getting ultra's with fully upgraded carapaces as a distraction. It's overkill, I know, but it takes fucking ages for a carrier to take one down. A Fully upgraded ultra has 5 armour and 400 HP. Interceptors do 9 damage fully upgraded (I think), but only 4 on an ultra.
A carrier has 8 interceptors, bringing the total damage of one attack up to 32. That's not very much compared to their maximum of 72, and the 400 HP's of an ultra.

Excuses for straying OT.

Anyway, if someone bunkers up with cannons in their base, you can expo like mad. A Z player with 5+ expo's against a P with none, is at a huge advantage.

I think this is an advantage for any race...:P

[Gladstone]

make a few mutas in front, and get some loaded overlords at back. If he doesn't have any defense behind his base thats good, if he does the cannons would target the mutas while the overlord goes in without getting harmed.

[IrishDutchman]

I think this is an advantage for any race...

Of course, but Z needs expo's the most, and IMO get a better boost from another expo than the other races.

[WickedImposter]

i tihnk that hydra/defiler would work well. if you had something for the defilers to consume, then you could put down a few darkswarms as well plague the carriers

[WhiteShade]

I think enough was said... Close this?

[Siege_Commander]

I think its up to the topic creator.

[MidnightGladius]

If you have no further meaningful comments to add, simply don't post. Sound good?

[WhiteShade]

If you have no further meaningful comments to add, simply don't post. Sound good?
Sure... sorry about that...
To counter Carriers... wouldn't going mass Scourge or Valk or Devo work?

[Siege_Commander]

No valks. The strong armor of capital ships negates the multi hit of the valk. And I think we all know how to counter carriers.

[WickedImposter]

No valks. The strong armor of capital ships negates the multi hit of the valk. And I think we all know how to counter carriers.

he pretty much covered it. unless the valks and devos are coupled together. then the valks start getting effective, because every spore gives the valks 8 more dmg

[blupp74]

No valks. The strong armor of capital ships negates the multi hit of the valk. And I think we all know how to counter carriers.

Actually, I don't do too well against carriers.. When they come late game (well, they don't really come early game, do they...), and it's been all tanks, vultures and goliaths up until then...I have 1, maybe 2 starports...and he goes for my main with 8+ carriers...buildings all over the place, so my gols have problems reaching (range upgrade researched)...and even though i have 12+ gols, and focus fire on the carriers (one at a time) he kills my gols off too fast anyway. Mass wraith would be good, except i have no build for fast mass wraiths, and he'll have an observer with him anyway.

So...given those parameters...what should I do?
(Anyone who says "Don't let him get carriers" will be properly spanked, even if it's only in my mind. Be warned!)

[Siege_Commander]

Well, comsat. If you see carriers, get the gols in a path they will take to your base, so you wont have that maze prob.

[blupp74]

Well, comsat. If you see carriers, get the gols in a path they will take to your base, so you wont have that maze prob.

...and if I see the carriers WHEN they enter my base?
In this case it was from the left in the 12 o'clock base on LT. My comsat was busy looking for DT's as I was trying to push forwards.

But yeah, I guess I should build a little better, so it's not such a maze.
Oh well...my original problem was macro, cause at a certain point in the game there was too much action, so I forgot about building more buildings.
Now I did just that, but either built too much (probably not) or in the wrong places (more likely). Next thing to learn.

[MidnightGladius]

If it's really win-or-lose, lift off all of your buildings that are making trouble. Heck, someone might even notice and do a PP of it :P

[Siege_Commander]

? PP? Pimpest plays, lol?

[Psyren]

Defilers and queens are the most important units vs. carriers (plague/ensnare). To actually kill the carriers you can use either hydras or muta/scourge/dev. While the former is cheaper and more general, I think the latter option is superior, since most protoss only go carriers if they control islands, and if they have good control it's difficult to stop them from picking off expos, and you're forced into a defensive position. If you go with an air-based army it's much easier to directly engage to the carriers and keep up map control/tempo.

[blupp74]

Defilers and queens are the most important units vs. carriers (plague/ensnare). To actually kill the carriers you can use either hydras or muta/scourge/dev. While the former is cheaper and more general, I think the latter option is superior, since most protoss only go carriers if they control islands, and if they have good control it's difficult to stop them from picking off expos, and you're forced into a defensive position. If you go with an air-based army it's much easier to directly engage to the carriers and keep up map control/tempo.

Errm..that's all good and well, but since I, as Terran, have access to neither defilers nor queens, that advice doesn't really help much.

[Psyren]

I was addressing the OP's question.

To deal with carriers as T, use ranged goliaths. It's important to keep the pressure on the protoss here, since if they break your push with their carriers it's very easy for them to expand while harassing your main with carriers against much less mobile goliaths. Going wraiths is very weak imo, since it just takes a few sairs to render your entire force useless.

[Siege_Commander]

and wraiths are expensive. just build more gols and with the money left over make sure you up as high as you can.

[MatGeo]

How many carriers did he attack with???

Coz if he had only 1 exp...u could take the rest then keep attacking his exp...and force him to rebuild his defence which if u said made out of cannons costs pretty much to rebuild...no problem for u since u have more exps but this way he will have to waste money on defence and he will end up with around 10 carriers...

Some1 tell me if i'm wrong...but i don't think u can affford to repair such a defence and mass carriers effectively with only 1 exp....

[lammas]

1 base or 1exp? with 1exp he can make carrys np.

[MidnightGladius]

Yeah, I think he was referring to cannon expo -> carriers. Risky, but I suppose it COULD be done.

[Psyren]

Fast expo straight into carriers is countered by pretty much everything the zerg can do.. There's no way the protoss can get the critical mass of carriers necessary to do real damage before getting killed/massively outexpoed by the zerg.

[DBCooper]

Carriers can easily be destroyed with some devourers.

[MidnightGladius]

Fast expo straight into carriers is countered by pretty much everything the zerg can do.. There's no way the protoss can get the critical mass of carriers necessary to do real damage before getting killed/massively outexpoed by the zerg.

Yeah, but we're not talking about the best of players, here...

[WickedImposter]

hmm. you should scout him, at least, and if you noticed that he was going carriers, go defilers/hydras

[neobowman]

if you can make 100 + scourges, ok i admit it's not very effective but it could be fun to watch

[Ahzz]

if carriers don't have corsairs or something like that whit them, cloning scourges to them wouldn't be that bad. The reason for this is, one carrier can only attack one scourge at a time, and they take time to first launch interceptors and then attacking. If you do it somehow as you should etc, you should only lose 1, or at max 2 scourges to each carriers before they hit...

Normally you do mass hydra with alot of upgrades, speed, range, carapace, missile attack, etc. Along with devourers. This also counters corsairs. Devourers alone aren't really good against carriers tho, since carriers got better range and kill devourers pretty easily. If you see the carriers in time, or they come totally unexpected you could do mass hydra and some defilers, dark swarm and hydras under it, and plague the carriers. Not letting the toss expo is really important here, so scout the expansion spots