Protoss Questions

[Siege_Commander]

1. What is there range of psi storm?
2.what is the range of maelstrom?
3.Any blizzard made maps that the toss have an advantage on against zerg?

[WickedImposter]

dont know any maps with advatages, but the range of psi storm is 9, and the range of maelstrom is 10.

[Siege_Commander]

Hmmm, whenever my temp storms my friends guards, they kill him just as my storm is released.

[Giantfish]

I thought psi storm was 8... can anyone confirm what it actually is?

[MidnightGladius]

DatEdit says that Psi Storm's range is 18 (9 squares) and that Maelstrom's is 20 (10 squares). Guardians are range 16 (8 squares(. So, technically, you can storm a guard without getting hit.

[Siege_Commander]

Must me my base layout/terrain. BtW,how should you properly layout a toss base? My buildings are everywhere.

[Staind]

That's good :P Doesn't matter.

[WickedImposter]

actually, sometimes base layout does matter. usually, you should keep the tech building near the back, in a nice little group.

[Siege_Commander]

Is it worth it to make 2 tech buildings, incase my main gets overrun?

[Cpt.Chronic]

Is it worth it to make 2 tech buildings, incase my main gets overrun?
Only if it can do multiple upgrades, like the forge or cy-core (if u go heavy air). The others....well, they don't have as many upgrades so u don't need multiple versions. If your main base is in the process of getting run over, then sure, remake your tech buildings so you don't have to go thru the whole tech tree again.

[WickedImposter]

ya. sometimes i make 2 temp archives, to recearch both storm and maelstrom as soon as possible

[Siege_Commander]

Thats not what I asked. But you wouldnt need maelstorm as early as storm

[WickedImposter]

sry. your right. misunderstood the question. anyways, i agree with chronic. if your main is being overrun, than you should start second tech building at your expo.

[Siege_Commander]

What if your expo is your natural?:(

[MidnightGladius]

Meh, come on people, let's use some common sense here...

Anyways, building the entire Zerg tech tree is so annoying not because of resources, but because of time. I hate losing my zerg tech buildings >.<

[WickedImposter]

What if your expo is your natural?:(

if your expo is your natural, there is no doubt that they would have taken it out on their way to yo
ur main

ya. for zerg it is especially a nuisance. once, i screwed up sunken placement, and the terran killed my hydra den/ spawning pool. took me at least 5 minutes to recover.

[Siege_Commander]

Do the zerg structures take the longest to build? And around what time should I attack?

[Ahzz]

if your expo is your natural, there is no doubt that they would have taken it out on their way to yo
ur main
there is. they could try to run through to get inside main, ignoring sunks etc. maybe taking down some lings/drones that block the way.

Do the zerg structures take the longest to build? And around what time should I attack?
they don't take longest to build. besides "do they take longest to build" is a really idiotic question, since it doesn't matter to anything.
As for attacking, depends what race you are. It usually can be found out by scouting, but for example terrans bring their marines, medics, firebats to the zerg choke point so zerg can't get out before killing rines etc, and forces the zerg to build more sunken colonies.

[MidnightGladius]

If the T has a contain going, you ought to attack when you get your first 4 lurkers. Try and force them back to their choke and then expand like crazy. If you went mutas, go straight to their base and kill off some of their SCVs. If they run back with their standing army, good; contain and tech lurks; expand like crazy. If they attack instead, your sunkens should be able to hold them off for a bit and your muta/ling can finish them off.

Unless, of course, they went tanks. That tends to complicate it a bit.

[Siege_Commander]

Sorry for the confusion, but I'm still toss

[WickedImposter]

Sorry for the confusion, but I'm still toss

what? you just confused me even more. anyways, back to the topic, i have a question for toss players.

Do you often get maelstrom in PvZ? and if so, around when and how often.

im just wondering, cause i almost never get maelstrom PvZ and im wondering if thats a mistake

[Siege_Commander]

Peolpe keep replying as if im terran. And Im not sure when ro if you should get strom.

[MidnightGladius]

Oh.

Basically, you should flank the push as soon as it comes out.

[WickedImposter]

Oh.

Basically, you should flank the push as soon as it comes out.

THAT DOSENT HELP ME. lol. and ya. i guess your right commander. it does seem that ppl are replying to you as if your terran

[Siege_Commander]

Wicked, I was the one who started this topic. And Anyone No where I can get bifrost 3(Map)? Awesome proxy capablitites.

[WickedImposter]

actually. i dont. im always wondering the efficiency of the proxy rush.

[Siege_Commander]

Well, it makes travel time shorter. In bifrost3, the min nat is above your main, and is acessible by places other than the main. Also your opponent wont see the rax/gates unless he actually scouts there. Which also makes for flanking opportunities. See, If you attacked and weakened/almost destroyed your opponents defences, they would have some time to replace them if you were build ding your army from your main, as you would have to travel the distance from your main to theirs. But If you proxied your gates/rax, your units would get there sooner, and ur opponent would have less defences. Oh and it doesn't work good/at all if your opponent sees them, cuz unless you have static/units near by to protect your buildings, there pretty much dead

[WhiteShade]

Wicked, I was the one who started this topic. And Anyone No where I can get bifrost 3(Map)? Awesome proxy capablitites.
What's bifrost 3(Map)? I'm interested!

Well, it makes travel time shorter. In bifrost3, the min nat is above your main, and is acessible by places other than the main. Also your opponent wont see the rax/gates unless he actually scouts there. Which also makes for flanking opportunities. See, If you attacked and weakened/almost destroyed your opponents defences, they would have some time to replace them if you were build ding your army from your main, as you would have to travel the distance from your main to theirs. But If you proxied your gates/rax, your units would get there sooner, and ur opponent would have less defences. Oh and it doesn't work good/at all if your opponent sees them, cuz unless you have static/units near by to protect your buildings, there pretty much dead
I believe that the Toss have the best defensive building in the game... that is until your base is assualted by both air and ground units unless you have cluster cannons... I love Toss... I use the Carriers for Defense and huge "weak-base-assualts" but they cost so much... and take too long... but the Zerg I am more familiar with including their weaknesses... the Toss' only weakness is their inability to recover health (shields can be knocked down by Terran's Vessels)... and inability to repair buildings... well that's it... I guess...:concern:

[Siege_Commander]

this is the map. I found it.

[WickedImposter]

ya. i saw a rep on Bifrost. i think ill download it. also, i know hwat the proxy is, but im just saying. if he has a suitible defense and counters your proxy, your screwed. the proxy is sacrificing Defense for easier rush/attack cababilities. sorta like a double edged sword

[MidnightGladius]

Most people don't expect proxies, and if they don't scout it or your empty main (worker block on ramp is kinda iffy; they might not see your empty main, but it's almost certain that you're hiding something), it's generally pretty hard to stop, unless their micro is just way better than yours.

[lammas]

if u like proxy on that try peaks of baek du pvt.

[Siege_Commander]

Have any of you guys ever pulled of sucessful proxies?

[MidnightGladius]

Yeah, I did a proxy 2rax rine rush TvT, countless proxy zeal rushes PvZ, and a few proxy DT/proxy reaver drop in PvT.

[Siege_Commander]

Hmm. I gotta try that proxy reaver drop.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Have any of you guys ever pulled of sucessful proxies?
Sure, but they are always a risk. The last game I tried to proxy (proxy gates vs terran), my opponent countered it perfectly by cancelling his gas and building an extra rax. He was able to kill all my proxy buildings with scvs/rines, which left me with no units, so I had to build cannons at my choke to defend, which set me back even further. It turned out to be a pretty good game in the long run after I was able to expo.

Here's the replay if you want to check out the best way to counter proxy gates/cannons, cause this guy did it pretty well.

http://www.warboards.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4516&d=1154060285

[Siege_Commander]

Why did he cancel gas? oh,never mind. I cant load the replay cuz this is not my computer.

[WickedImposter]

hmm. i almost never proxy. lol. well, i did proxy assimilator a terran today ;). but that probably dosent count

[Siege_Commander]

I dont think you get proxying. Thats offinsive assim.

[WickedImposter]

i know. i never try proxies though. way too risky for me.

[MidnightGladius]

Part of SC is just trying something new and fun, and who care's about wins/losses? gogo 6pool 2sunk rush!!!

[WickedImposter]

lol. bah. 6 pools for losers. the new style is the dreaded hatchery rush! along with sunkens.

[MidnightGladius]

I bet I could tell you I was planning on 6pooling and still beat you. That hardly makes me a loser :P

[Siege_Commander]

OMG! theres a hatch in my base! WTF do I do? dddduuuuuuhhhhhhh.....Attack!

[WickedImposter]

lol. its actually quite hard to counter, the dreaded hatch rush. BTW middy, i was being sarcastic up top.

[sololop]

Er, never group your tec buildings. If you have the money, build more than one. But only if you have the money, and put them far away from eachother. Because you dont want 1 well placed nuke or tank drop or whatever to only kill say 3 buildings but then your tec level is dropped down to 'lots and probes only again.

And building say 3 fleet becons can really help get those (6?) upgrades completed alot faster.
Same with possbily a robotics support bay, if you plan to get reavers, getting the 2 upgrades quickly can help. Also the shuttle speed for faster drop.

[Cpt.Chronic]

sololop, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[WickedImposter]

sololop, you have no idea what you're talking about.

actually i think he does. he was replying to like the 2nd page when commander asked if it was wise to build more than 1 tech building

[WhiteShade]

I'm sorry... what is a proxy... I'm new... still...:P

[splatt0r]

lol. bah. 6 pools for losers. the new style is the dreaded hatchery rush! along with sunkens.

6 pool owns.:D And how could you still win if you tell your opponent you will 6 pool MG?
Never tried that hatch strat before, I'll test it with ai. :P

[MidnightGladius]

I'll trust my superior micro and his inability to think of a good counter the first time :)

[Cpt.Chronic]

Quote:


Originally Posted by Cpt.Chronic




sololop, you have no idea what you're talking about.




actually i think he does. he was replying to like the 2nd page when commander asked if it was wise to build more than 1 tech buildingactually i think he does. he was replying to like the 2nd page when commander asked if it was wise to build more than 1 tech building
So you agree with him...well then, you're wrong too. You don't waste minerals on some of the most expensive buildings just for 1 time upgrades. 3 fleat beacons? That's like 2 extra carriers you could have had...and why would you ever want to get all of the upgrades anyway? In most cases, the only upgrade you ever need is +interceptor capacity, and sometimes diruption web. It's hardly worth the cost to build more than 1 of them...he says "only if you have the money"....well, if it's only after you have the money, then you should already have those upgrades and a 200/200 army, and in the meantime, it's better to spend that money on other things like more bases, more gateways, and to get all 3 upgrades going at the same time.

[blupp74]

Sure, but they are always a risk. The last game I tried to proxy (proxy gates vs terran), my opponent countered it perfectly by cancelling his gas and building an extra rax. He was able to kill all my proxy buildings with scvs/rines, which left me with no units, so I had to build cannons at my choke to defend, which set me back even further. It turned out to be a pretty good game in the long run after I was able to expo.

Here's the replay if you want to check out the best way to counter proxy gates/cannons, cause this guy did it pretty well.

http://www.warboards.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4516&d=1154060285

I...don't understand. He had a kabillion tanks and vultures. You weren't getting to him very fast , and your main, with all it's tech buildings, was highly vulnurable to drop...and the path there was clear...and he had comsat...
Still, not a single dropship. One science vessel was all i saw coming out of the (one) starport. If he'd done a massive drop to your main (and he had plenty of time to prepare and execute atleast one drop) he would have damaged you seriously (big enough drop would probably have wiped out your main completely).
Still, more of this tank/vult/turret tactic. Which I'm sure is very good, but what's the hurt in adding atleast SOME other elements?
I was almost surprised to see the SV. Then not so more surprised when nothing else came out of there.
Anyway, still, seems to have been a fun game.

[Siege_Commander]

Protoss question#4 If they have to gates and a core, what does that usually mean?

[Gladstone]

fast goons.

[WhiteShade]

fast goons.
Goons and Zeals... lots and lots of 'em...

If you see any Archives and Gates then prepare for Archons...

[WickedImposter]

blubb you messed up the quote thing lol. also, chronic, i wasent implying that his idea had merit, i just thought that you meant that his post meant nothing to the thread

[WhiteShade]

OMG! theres a hatch in my base! WTF do I do? dddduuuuuuhhhhhhh.....Attack!
Stupid question: That means that a Hatchery is being built within your base?

[WickedImposter]

of course. but believe me. the hatch rush is actually really hard to stop in TvZ because of the difficulty for terrans to destroy buildings early game

[Siege_Commander]

? what about marines? is the standerd vs zerg, 1 hatch=6rines any way, and u should have been building more than that.

[WhiteShade]

? what about marines? is the standerd vs zerg, 1 hatch=6rines any way, and u should have been building more than that.
Good to know... I'll definitely keep that in mind...

[Siege_Commander]

The standered is marines and medics with sci vessles. Donnt no about tanks, sometimes there added, sometimes not

[MidnightGladius]

Tanks are used to kill Lurkers and Ultralisks. If they go muta/ling, only get 1-2 tanks for sunkens. If they go lurker/ling, you'll need some tanks.

[WickedImposter]

no. you see, your calculation is right, but assuming oyu match each other step for step in workers, it would be

spawning pool+hatchery=500 mins

supply depot+rax=250 mins. accouting that, you have an advantage of only 5 rines, and they can still build lings to support. 2 lings>2 marines.

[Siege_Commander]

no, 7rines > than 2 lings and you would put the rines in the middle of workers so the lings cant reach them easily. oh and micro.

[WhiteShade]

Sweet...:smirk:

[WickedImposter]

no, 7rines > than 2 lings and you would put the rines in the middle of workers so the lings cant reach them easily. oh and micro.

thats in. ima have to try it on you. then well see whos right. another thing is, however, that if at zerg, you go save up to 8 hatch rush do-or-die, by that time all the terran will have would be maybe a depot coming. when they see the hatch they will send scvs after it, and you could produce zerglings. no terran goes 8 rax, but with zerg a 8 hatch in their base will probably slow them down a lot. assuming that as soon as resources allow after the hatchery is built in your base, you build a rax then a rine, 1 rine and the hatchery will probably be done at around the same time. assuming, the zerg was also microing and building lings, the zerg should come out on top

[Siege_Commander]

Wicked, I dont think you could try it on me cuz I only play toss.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Sure, but they are always a risk. The last game I tried to proxy (proxy gates vs terran), my opponent countered it perfectly by cancelling his gas and building an extra rax. He was able to kill all my proxy buildings with scvs/rines, which left me with no units, so I had to build cannons at my choke to defend, which set me back even further. It turned out to be a pretty good game in the long run after I was able to expo.

Here's the replay if you want to check out the best way to counter proxy gates/cannons, cause this guy did it pretty well.

http://www.warboards.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4516&d=1154060285[/quote (http://www.warboards.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4516&d=1154060285%5B/quote)]

I...don't understand. He had a kabillion tanks and vultures. You weren't getting to him very fast , and your main, with all it's tech buildings, was highly vulnurable to drop...and the path there was clear...and he had comsat...
Still, not a single dropship. One science vessel was all i saw coming out of the (one) starport. If he'd done a massive drop to your main (and he had plenty of time to prepare and execute atleast one drop) he would have damaged you seriously (big enough drop would probably have wiped out your main completely).
Still, more of this tank/vult/turret tactic. Which I'm sure is very good, but what's the hurt in adding atleast SOME other elements?
I was almost surprised to see the SV. Then not so more surprised when nothing else came out of there.
Anyway, still, seems to have been a fun game.

You have to remember that I had observers spread over the map plus I had that island base b/n my main and his, so if he did a big drop, I would most likely see it coming and be able to stop it. Or if he did a big drop, I would be able to easily attack multiple terran bases and bring his economy to a stand-still. That's not the easiest map to protect your expos on, which is why Terran doesn't risk taking a large amount of his main force for a drop.

btw, seige-commander, he cancelled his refinery so he would have enough money to build marines, bunker, and another barracks asap.

[WhiteShade]

You have to remember that I had observers spread over the map plus I had that island base b/n my main and his, so if he did a big drop, I would most likely see it coming and be able to stop it. Or if he did a big drop, I would be able to easily attack multiple terran bases and bring his economy to a stand-still. That's not the easiest map to protect your expos on, which is why Terran doesn't risk taking a large amount of his main force for a drop.

btw, seige-commander, he cancelled his refinery so he would have enough money to build marines, bunker, and another barracks asap.
So basically you forced his hand and made him panic...

[Cpt.Chronic]

So basically you forced his hand and made him panic...
Are you talking about where I said " btw, seige-commander, he cancelled his refinery so he would have enough money to build marines, bunker, and another barracks asap" ?


If so, I wouldn't call it panic, I'd call it adapting to counter my strategy.

[Siege_Commander]

Protoss question#5 What is a BO that in corporates photon cannons, to stop muta harass? I got owned today agin because of mutaling. And In PvT are you supposed to go gate assim core gate robo? And I guess i never stop building probes(not really) right? So like after and between every stucture i would build them. Would I build them while building an army? I watched my replays and I just stop building probes after a while. I know thats bad, something I have to correct? And where would I place cannons to prevent muta harrass?

[MidnightGladius]

Put your first cannons around/in the mineral line (3 or 4 per line, after that you're going to be using storm/archon/sairs anyways), and maybe 1-2 more for your gates. My tech is always near my gates unless I did hidden tech (in which case they're dead anyways once they find it).

[Siege_Commander]

If I see them going spire, what should I tech to? Stargates?

[Ahzz]

as fast archon as possible. also cannons. if you know your archon will come later than mutas, add 1-2 cannons near gateways etc, 3 or so near mineral line.

[WhiteShade]

:confused: I'm guessing they're saying no Stargates just yet...

[MidnightGladius]

If you went sair harass and they *still* went mutas (WTF?!), add another stargate and pump sairs as long as they keep going mutas.

[Siege_Commander]

kk. thx. Toss question#6 If you want to tech but zerg has ovie in your base by nexus what do you do?

[MidnightGladius]

Well, if you went 1gate core tech, you're first goon should be pretty quick in coming, and you can kill off their ovie fairly easily. If you went 2gate core, you can either hide the tech in an obscure corner, OR place it in full sight (ie, a StarGate right next to your nexus). They'll think you're going sairs, and will probably tech hydras. As soon as your goon kills their ovie, cancel the stargate and build a citadel of adun for HT and storm, which owns hydras. Tricking people like this is really, really fun :)

[WhiteShade]

Well, if you went 1gate core tech, you're first goon should be pretty quick in coming, and you can kill off their ovie fairly easily. If you went 2gate core, you can either hide the tech in an obscure corner, OR place it in full sight (ie, a StarGate right next to your nexus). They'll think you're going sairs, and will probably tech hydras. As soon as your goon kills their ovie, cancel the stargate and build a citadel of adun for HT and storm, which owns hydras. Tricking people like this is really, really fun :)

You do this all the time don't you?:smirk:

Anyway, what if he destroys the ovie and they send another? Or if they send more ovies (which I don't see why they should)... what then? Keep up with this tactic?

[MidnightGladius]

Um, well, unless they have ovie speed, it won't matter (unless it's like 6/9 LT or something, in which case you can just put a goon on the edge of your cliff to kill them as they fly in).

[Siege_Commander]

Um, ill post the replays later. And Middy, can you and other ppl plz comment on my replays?

[WhiteShade]

Um, ill post the replays later. And Middy, can you and other ppl plz comment on my replays?

Oh come on it's like watching and criticizing good movies... it takes tme... we'll get to you... don't worry...:D

I have nothing else to say...

[Siege_Commander]

Thx whiteshade. But I posted my first repay like 2 days ago, I've now posted four.

[WhiteShade]

Thx whiteshade. But I posted my first repay like 2 days ago, I've now posted four.
I've got 'em...

I saw cheezed and that's what simmilarly happened to me...:P

[KrisBower]

Okay, I haven't played SC in quite awhile and I'm just getting back into it. So forgive me when I ask, but can somebody provide some clarification on terminology? What is meant by Proxies, Expo, rax, micro, & macro?
I'm assuming micro & macro refer to Micro/Macro-management, and rax = barracks, but I'm not to sure about proxies & expo. Obviously, correct me if i'm wrong about rax, micro, & macro.

[U-238]

Well you've got rax/micro/macro right.

Expo is simply an expansion.

And a proxy is a cheese tactic where you build your first rax/gate just outside your opponents main (or even in it sometimes). This is done so you can get your units up to his base faster.

If you have any other "lingo" releated questions please refere to this (http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?t=19862) thread.

[Siege_Commander]

Again, major thread necro. On my old topic to:(

[WickedImposter]

just let it close commander. your supporting them by posting it lol.