ScottieIWU
06-27-2006, 1:30 PM
Well, I have always loved Star Wars, but since my summer job is babysitting my 4 month old nephew from 6 am - 6 pm during the week, and since he tends to sleep at least 7-8 of those 12 hrs that I watch him, I have a lot of spare time.
For that reason, I just read the Thrawn Trilogy of Star Wars books by Timothy Zahn, followed by the Hand of Thrawn duology, and I'm now resuming the X-Wing series of books at the fifth one. With all of this Star Wars, I started reading Wikipedia yesterday to get a little history and brush up on books that I may not get around to.
Upon doing this, I discovered that I wasn't alone in my "sympathizing" with the Empire. Jonathan Last wrote an article "The Case for the Empire (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp)" in which he gives brief, but somewhat convincing arguments for the Empire not being nearly as evil as it seems.
So for this reason I guess I was interested in what people had to say about this, using the Star Wars Universe as evidence to support these assertions. For the purpose of this discussion, I will include the movies and the EU (books, games, comics), though arguments involving the EU should hold considerably less value than those coming directly from the movies, since those are absolutely official. For the mods, I understand this may be more suited to the entertainment section, as it relates to that kind of thing, but if any of you read this and deem it acceptable, perhaps we could move it to ML to get more traffic?
As for my views, I'll type up a few brief points and will elaborate on any as required. Some of my arguments are taken from Last, and I won't credit him directly but will say that if you recognize the argument, chances are it's his, or an elaboration on his argument. Many, at the same time, are my own.
I. The Old Republic
Starting nearly as far back as Knights of the Old Republic we begin to see signs that the Old Republic is nothing but a bureaucracy that is failing its citizens nearly as far back as inception. The Mandalorian wars ripped the galaxy apart and the Old Republic was so dependent on the Jedi Order (whose arrogance and insistence on inaction nearly doomed the galaxy) that the galaxy nearly fell until Revan came to aid the struggle. After this, the Jedi Civil war ripped the galaxy apart even more, leading to the utter demolition of many planets that the Old Republic simply could not adequately protect with its own fleet. Later, as the Republic attempts to stay together they face failure after failure to restore life to planets and to ensure the safety of their citizens.
In the times just before the rise of the Empire, we see a Republic that is utter bureaucracy and that fails to protect a world that is under blockade by the Trade Federation. When the Clone Wars start, could there not have been a peaceful solution? As Last points out, a Republic based on freedom should surely not be opposed to a secessionist movement? It's "freedom" yet they're not free to leave. That sounds almost as bad as the Empire people demonize and later try to topple.
As Last also points out, Palpatine seems to be acting in the favor of the universe, in the favor of order and efficacy. While he is a sith lord, and Sith are known for deception, it seemed that Palpatine followed through on his promise to ensure order and stability.
II. Rebel Alliance
Surely the Rebel Alliance, to the Empire itself, was little more than a group of terrorists trying to bring down the state. This is comparable to the US war on terror now. The Empire is acting out of self-preservation against a group who would willingly kill their numbers in order to enact a "better" government. As last points out, it's interesting that during the movies there is little to no mention of what the new government would be. Only once the Empire falls does the Rebel Alliance seem to ever concern itself with how to govern the galaxy that it just "liberated."
Moreso, for all of the innocent people that the Empire supposedly killed, the Rebel Alliance is surely responsible for just as many deaths. The Death Star had a minimal crew compliment of 775,000 men. Surely not all of those people were evil, but many no doubt believed themselves to be serving the general good. In the Battle of Endor, we saw the deaths of thsoe on the Death Star II (those building it, and those crewing it) as well as the deaths of those on the Executor. The number of lives taken by the Rebellion just to end the Empire numbers at least in the millions alone in these two battles.
Last's argument involving Alderaan is interesting to read, and I suggest looking at it so I don't waste time retyping it. However, I will reiterate that Tarkin, as per my sig, said "fear will keep them in line." He did not ever insinuate that the galaxy would be kept in line by the destruction of every planet that rose against it. However, does the destruction of a planet of terrorist-supporters not speak volumes to others who might wish to join the Rebel cause?
I think I'll leave it at that for now, because this turned into a mountain, and I'll let others rebute my arguments or come up with new ones for the Empire. I have more to point out, including the EU times and how the destruction of countless planets by the Yuzhaan Vong is in many ways made worse by Luke's actions earlier in his life.
Let's hear what you guys have to say.
And on second thought, maybe this should go in IR, lol.
For that reason, I just read the Thrawn Trilogy of Star Wars books by Timothy Zahn, followed by the Hand of Thrawn duology, and I'm now resuming the X-Wing series of books at the fifth one. With all of this Star Wars, I started reading Wikipedia yesterday to get a little history and brush up on books that I may not get around to.
Upon doing this, I discovered that I wasn't alone in my "sympathizing" with the Empire. Jonathan Last wrote an article "The Case for the Empire (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp)" in which he gives brief, but somewhat convincing arguments for the Empire not being nearly as evil as it seems.
So for this reason I guess I was interested in what people had to say about this, using the Star Wars Universe as evidence to support these assertions. For the purpose of this discussion, I will include the movies and the EU (books, games, comics), though arguments involving the EU should hold considerably less value than those coming directly from the movies, since those are absolutely official. For the mods, I understand this may be more suited to the entertainment section, as it relates to that kind of thing, but if any of you read this and deem it acceptable, perhaps we could move it to ML to get more traffic?
As for my views, I'll type up a few brief points and will elaborate on any as required. Some of my arguments are taken from Last, and I won't credit him directly but will say that if you recognize the argument, chances are it's his, or an elaboration on his argument. Many, at the same time, are my own.
I. The Old Republic
Starting nearly as far back as Knights of the Old Republic we begin to see signs that the Old Republic is nothing but a bureaucracy that is failing its citizens nearly as far back as inception. The Mandalorian wars ripped the galaxy apart and the Old Republic was so dependent on the Jedi Order (whose arrogance and insistence on inaction nearly doomed the galaxy) that the galaxy nearly fell until Revan came to aid the struggle. After this, the Jedi Civil war ripped the galaxy apart even more, leading to the utter demolition of many planets that the Old Republic simply could not adequately protect with its own fleet. Later, as the Republic attempts to stay together they face failure after failure to restore life to planets and to ensure the safety of their citizens.
In the times just before the rise of the Empire, we see a Republic that is utter bureaucracy and that fails to protect a world that is under blockade by the Trade Federation. When the Clone Wars start, could there not have been a peaceful solution? As Last points out, a Republic based on freedom should surely not be opposed to a secessionist movement? It's "freedom" yet they're not free to leave. That sounds almost as bad as the Empire people demonize and later try to topple.
As Last also points out, Palpatine seems to be acting in the favor of the universe, in the favor of order and efficacy. While he is a sith lord, and Sith are known for deception, it seemed that Palpatine followed through on his promise to ensure order and stability.
II. Rebel Alliance
Surely the Rebel Alliance, to the Empire itself, was little more than a group of terrorists trying to bring down the state. This is comparable to the US war on terror now. The Empire is acting out of self-preservation against a group who would willingly kill their numbers in order to enact a "better" government. As last points out, it's interesting that during the movies there is little to no mention of what the new government would be. Only once the Empire falls does the Rebel Alliance seem to ever concern itself with how to govern the galaxy that it just "liberated."
Moreso, for all of the innocent people that the Empire supposedly killed, the Rebel Alliance is surely responsible for just as many deaths. The Death Star had a minimal crew compliment of 775,000 men. Surely not all of those people were evil, but many no doubt believed themselves to be serving the general good. In the Battle of Endor, we saw the deaths of thsoe on the Death Star II (those building it, and those crewing it) as well as the deaths of those on the Executor. The number of lives taken by the Rebellion just to end the Empire numbers at least in the millions alone in these two battles.
Last's argument involving Alderaan is interesting to read, and I suggest looking at it so I don't waste time retyping it. However, I will reiterate that Tarkin, as per my sig, said "fear will keep them in line." He did not ever insinuate that the galaxy would be kept in line by the destruction of every planet that rose against it. However, does the destruction of a planet of terrorist-supporters not speak volumes to others who might wish to join the Rebel cause?
I think I'll leave it at that for now, because this turned into a mountain, and I'll let others rebute my arguments or come up with new ones for the Empire. I have more to point out, including the EU times and how the destruction of countless planets by the Yuzhaan Vong is in many ways made worse by Luke's actions earlier in his life.
Let's hear what you guys have to say.
And on second thought, maybe this should go in IR, lol.