Reviewing: Anyone interested?

[Neo]

I've been toying around with an idea for awhile now, especially since I've launched Kupatrix.com onto a fully upgraded and customized Drupal thingy and what I would like to turn it into.

So I had this idea:

Game reviews! At first it was reviews of classic games (ie: Like old SNES, Sega, etc... stuff) becuase when the Wii launches people can check up on the classics and see how they compare and stuff. And I'm sure there are others like me who loved the old classics... I know there are a ton of Sonic fans out there (For some reason O_o).

Then I thought more generally, Reviewing any games, including ones already out, and coverage of ones coming out. But more of like from the stance of an actual gamer... (Not one out for sponsorships, or relying on money pumped from the game developer).

So like if "Game A" was alright, but had some shitty parts in it, you would be able to say whatever you want! Like: "The game was ok up until level 32a where it just got incredibly lame!" ... or something.

I was thinking it would be neat to do something like that -- like the truth about games, not doctored up, sold out reviews from people who've lost touch with who/what gamers are.

So anyone interested? So far as I'm concerned this is a project with me -- not related to the ORG Network (ie: Kupatrix isn't part of the network, specially since its a .com =P) -- so there would be no "staff position" here on WB or anything (if your after that, shoo!).

So like we could do like different 'meters' for:

Graphics
Story
Sound/Music
Gameplay

(something else? can't think atm).

Especially with old games we could include the actual sound track to the game, thanks to SnesAmp! Well hell, for that matter, we could also include the sound tracks to later games on the PS2 and stuff...!

Sorta like IGN or Gamespot, but without all those annoying ads (baring my googly ads)! XD

Or some such. O_o

-Neo

[Spartan-II]

I would be interested. If we get enough people you can count me in.

[Giantfish]

I may be able to write a few reviews now and then, so I guess I'll help out.

[Revelade]

I am certainly down.

I will tell you that I'm a light PC gamer (CS, SC, HL), as I have 256 RAM and I have a lack of interest in these newer games that play like the classics (HL2, Doom 3, etc).

However, I am a hardcore Gamecube player and I seek out what I can about this great console.

Graphics
Story
Sound/Music
Gameplay

About that system, here are my comments:

Graphics? I guess you could measure that in technical terms (this many polygons, does it use adv shading, etc.). HOWEVER, I think that there is a seperate, yet important part to this as well, and this is design.

Design would be would seperates the used and used models of Madden to creative monster designs of FF games, etc. Likewise, say you have a picture that uses a 2342343mb graphics card, yet the picture is a box. A FREAKING BOX.

Then say you had a SNES game Chrono Trigger. Techical battle? Box wins. Creative design? CT.

And audio...

Well, there's voice acting and that could be broken down into how believable the actors sound and WHAT they actually say.

Then there's sound effects, but I can't imagine you judging a sound effect other than being clear. It's like a light bulb, it's either on or off.

Finally, there's music, ambience and that comes down to if it is clear, which is the technical part and WHAT is composed, which is like the design part of graphics, aka the creative part.

Now the story...

Originality is nice and BELIEVABILITY is also great too. We could make a story about talking potatoes, but we miss the realistic part of it as well.

Another factor is immersion. I'm not sure how to explain it, but I played games like Max Payne 2 to save allies, figure out what happens to him. It's different than just rolling balls in Katamari. I guess it's the feeling of the player that he's a part of the game and WANTS to play as the main character.

Finally gameplay...

You can say what the player does in a game, but I don't see how this type of gameplay beats that.

I do know that smart AI is a GOOD thing, which is why I mark down simple AI games like RPGs.

I also look at originality. Oh, yet another turn-based "choose attack, watch" RPG? Or is it a wonderfully new Katamari?

So those are the elements of what I think make a game. Usually, I group them into three areas: presentation (graphics, design, music), plot (originality, believability, immersion) and gameplay (AI, originality, replay value).

I'll tell you about my other beliefs later.

[Neo]

Cool, I'll look into setting up a system or something, see how it works out.

Revelade: My brother gave his GCN to this christmas service thing last year (it was such a cool thing for him to do, the lil kid that got it was so happy) and I've been missing it ever since.

I miss playing Mario Kart, Metal Arms, SSMB... I never got to try Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles :<

Oh well, I can always buy another one, they are super cheap =)

I also love its controller...

*ramble ramble ramble*

-Neo

[100thlurker]

Yes I would love to review video games! So you can count me in. You'll find that I can (currently) only review games for the PS2 and PC(that one to an even smaller degree).
Though a "guage" system wouldn't be too bad....

[Ubergopher]

I could do it but bear in mind most the games I get are usually a bit older 'cause of AAFES, also I'm a light PC gamers but what I have I'll review.

[Revelade]

Are we going to grade games based on other games or do we grade based on what we felt with the game?

I see a common problem with review sites giving games 7, 8, and 9s all the time. 5 is supposed to be average, yet people associate that with being poor. Another thing is sites give scores like 9.3 as opposed to 9.4, etc. Who can really tell the difference!

I don't grade games based on each other, because we can't really say FF7 is comparable to CS. I play the game and if I mark it for what I felt with it. That's why I give it a 1/3 if I hated it, 2/3 if it is acceptable and 3/3 if it really blows my mind.

Another way I see games is in three categories. No more action adventure, sci-fi first person puzzle platformer crap that people invent to confuse people. I slice games into either reflex, logic or statistic games.

Reflex games deal with twitch skills, whether it's DDR, CS, Forza or Halo. If you have faster reactions than Jim, you win.

Logic games deal with logical thinking, such as puzzles and this comes in games like: Zelda, Curse of Monkey Island, Resident Evil, etc. If you can outsmart Jim, you win.

Statistic games do not require reflex skills and logical thinking is limited to choosing the attack, which are games like FF7, Dynasty Warriors, X-men Legends and Diablo 2. If you have better stats than Jim, you win.

I'm aware that games often mix these 3 elements. Look at Tetris for example. At first, it's slow so you can really think about placing the pieces. However, speed increases, meaning it demands more and more of your reflexes. I'd say most people can handle lower speeds, but speed will kill people. That's why even though it has some logical thinking to it, I'd put it under a reflex label.

That's my ideas on how to grade games.

[xodkrm]

I can write some review about the major popular pc games, and some psp games.

IDEA : Why not hardware reviews as well?
eg video cards, ect

[Doombringer64]

I should write game reviews because I am such a bastard. Whenever I read game reviews I get pissed because it is very clear the author has no idea what he's talking about. Also reviewers tend to forget that a game maybe decent, but not necessarily worth $50. I love the Hitman series but I cannot in good conscience tell people to rush out and buy it because without a multiplayer mode the games longevity is very limited (just an example).

[Markpyro]

It's rare for me to get a new game, but when I do, I'll be happy to submit a review about it :P

[Revelade]

But the problem lies in that a review is only faulted if the reviewer displays wrong information.

Anybody is allowed to give God of War, Halo, Metroid Prime, whatever, 1/10, so long as he posts his factual reasons to justify his position.

With that said, I don't believe review should be like, "OMG TIHZ GAEM ROX BECUZ THE COLAR IS BLOO". That should just be, "The colors in this game feature blue, red, etc". The ultimate goal of a review is to list information so that the reader can decide if he likes the game.

I think extremely good reviews has the reader decide his decision not based on the opinion on the writer, but the facts that is supported.

[EvilEggCracker]

Hell, I could write a hell of a lot of reviews on current/old RTS games. I have 60 of 'em right here! (Strangely, I do not have Starcraft).

Or, I can write a review on every single Command and Conquer game (except Sole Survivior).

Or, failing that, I could write reviews for the Ps2 and/pr PSP.

[Neo]

If any of you are serious about this:

Go register on Kupatrix; http://www.kupatrix.com/user/register

Then login: http://www.kupatrix.com/user/login (sorry, don't have a user login box on the front page O_o just bookmark it or something. Drupal keeps you logged in for a damned long time though.)

Then pick a game and submit a review!

I'm thinking about creating a sort of Moogle Ranking system similar to:

http://www.kupatrix.com/mooglemeter

But at maybe half the size.

Review Format:

Name:
Publisher:
System:
Genre:
Multiplayer?
Price (MSRP will be fine)

Graphics
1-5

Gameplay
1-5

Storyline/Plot
1-5

Music
1-5

Replayibility (Value?) (how much will someone get out of this game? a few hours or weeks?!)
1-5

Full Review
Averaged Out Total from the rankings up above

Try to discuss the game generally as an intro paragraph (what genre is it? what were your first impressions, why did you rent or buy it, etc...)

The paragraphs that follow should be basically one each for the rankings above. Ie: have at least a paragraph discussing the gameplay, music, storyline, etc... More is fine as well, its not to strict.

We are going for quality though over quantity, so if you feel the review doesn't need to be that big, then go ahead and submit a short one.

========================

Does that work for yall?

Or should we go for like a more unified review format, ie: with the rankings up top together, without any comments, then the actual full review under those?

I like both ways... but we need to choose a unified review format first.

Oh, and before I forget:

1: Poor, This sucks.
2: Below Average...
3: Meh, Its so-so. Pretty average.
4: Above Average, this is pretty cool
5: WOW! This rocks!
(6): OMGWTFBBQ!!! -- to be used rarely. For all intents and purposes the scale will only be 1-5

Does that work for rankings? I was thinking if something gets a six, I could utilize a special graphic or something...

For now I can act as "Editor", but maybe in the future I could take on a few extra site admins to help out. (Though we are talking way in the future... lets see if this works out eh?)

If you have any problems, questions, or concerns, let me know.

I'm also working on a way to setup game galleries.

For instance:

http://www.kupatrix.com/images/ff6

So you could create some screenshots and add them to a gallery or something... Although that might be strange if we only have like 2 pictures.

You can attach pictures, however, and then use them via bbcode [img] tags!

So yeah. I think thats it. O_o

I would like to add real quick: Reviews on older games is cool to. especially older Sega/SNES games! I love those games (others do as well I hope ^_~) so that would be cool if you specialized in older systems.

Oh, and one last thing: If you'd rather just be a "guest reviewer" you can email me your review (kupatrix@gmail.com) and I'll add it to Kupatrix. For whatever reason, ie: you'd only like to submit one review, or see yourself only writing a couple or something. I would prefer that you register though if you plan on submitting reviews, just easier that way. Oh, and FYI: Kupatrix doesn't allow anonymous or registered users see your email (well anonymous users at least). And I don't ever use email addresses for evil things...

EDIT: And diablo 2 is more of a reflex game then you'd think. Although that doesn't apply if you've only played it through dialup (believe me I know) then it becomes not-so-fun because you have to play defensively.

-Neo

[Revelade]

I have some questions with this proposed system.

First of all, what is h2? What does it do?

Second, as I know, you are a RPGamer, so you'd understand this. There is a BIG difference between design and graphics. When you say graphics, I assume you mean technical things like polygon count, shadows, etc. When I say art design, I mean the actual art in the game, hand-drawn by people.

It wouldn't be fair to mark down a game like Alien Hominid entirely on graphics, when the art design is superb - everything on screen is hand drawn. Therefore I'd say distinguish the two.

Third, what are we supposed to rate our reviews to? Do we compare this game to another game? Or do we rather simply rate how much we enjoyed from the game? I expect to see lots of 4s and 5s because only the dedicated will use their time to review a game they thought was terrible.

I'm not sure if the readers need to know things like publisher, or price. Publisher being, you don't buy books if it's published by scholastic or troll right? Price? It's near impossible to keep track of every price in the country and all prices come down. Unless of course we put MSRP $60 on each Xbox 360 game, but that's redundant and I'm sure people already know that.

Instead of just multiplayer, why have players?

Finally, what do you think of the ideas (http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?p=320385#post320385) I shot out a while ago?

[Neo]

I have some questions with this proposed system.

First of all, what is h2? What does it do?
Shortcut for me. sets up Heading Level 2 for my bbcode system.

Technically you can do this:

[h2]Review

Blah blah, im an intro paragraph

Specific Topic

Specific topic.

==

The higher the "#" in "h#" the smaller the heading is. They goto 5. With 1 being the largest (and reserved for the very top of the page) Err, hope that makes sense.

Second, as I know, you are a RPGamer, so you'd understand this. There is a BIG difference between design and graphics. When you say graphics, I assume you mean technical things like polygon count, shadows, etc. When I say art design, I mean the actual art in the game, hand-drawn by people.

It wouldn't be fair to mark down a game like Alien Hominid entirely on graphics, when the art design is superb - everything on screen is hand drawn. Therefore I'd say distinguish the two.
To me I meant Graphics as in the actualy uhm... like graphics. Images, cutscenes, artwork. Not the technical aspects of whether the polygon count is high. FF7 had pretty cool graphics for most areas (scenes, backgrounds, etc...), but the character graphics were weak.

Mostly this is for ingame elements. One should never rate a game with 6 just because the FMVs were "sweet beyond awesomeness" because its the ingame graphics your going to be looking at.

I'm also thinking that classic games need to be labeled and ranked differently via "Graphics - Sprite Based" or something. Since, ie, FF6 graphics are spritey, but they are still decent enough (imo) while other classic games just have horrible spritework =/ Meh I dunno.

Third, what are we supposed to rate our reviews to? Do we compare this game to another game? Or do we rather simply rate how much we enjoyed from the game? I expect to see lots of 4s and 5s because only the dedicated will use their time to review a game they thought was terrible.

Yeah I know, I kind of thought of that, but to be fair, if you happen to play a game that you didn't like to much (ie: rented it on a whim) then why not write up a review? Besides the rankings are more for just the general total ranking.

IE: you could pickup a game with 1 for replayability, but a 6 for storyline.

I'm not sure if the readers need to know things like publisher, or price. Publisher being, you don't buy books if it's published by scholastic or troll right? Price? It's near impossible to keep track of every price in the country and all prices come down. Unless of course we put MSRP $60 on each Xbox 360 game, but that's redundant and I'm sure people already know that.
MSRP for USD I suppose. Yeah, I'm a crummy american. MSRP just to show its 'worth'.

Publisher is there because some people like certain Publishers over others. Although I might be confusing that term with something else. Basically we should include Publisher just to let them know where the game came from (ie: FF7, Published by Squaresoft, or is that developed? I'm lost =/)

Instead of just multiplayer, why have players?
Well I considered this, but I was thinking more towards the future. While "players" works for games like the SNES Street Fighters, or SSBM, it gets fuzzier for MMORPGS, Online games like Halo, and others. Basically I've always considered games either multiplayer or singleplayer, regardless of the number of "multiple players" ya know?

You could sub "players" for "multiplayer" though, especially for older classic games from the SNES era.

Finally, what do you think of the ideas (http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?p=320385#post320385) I shot out a while ago?

I don't know. While I like the general idea, it would might be annoying to break the norm like that.

I could include a category for it though, so you could specify it when you create it. Although, can you explain it in a way that other reviewers will be able to understand it without any problems? One could argue the Zelda is more Statistic then Logic, even though its got Logic elements.

You could say the same for quite a few FF games, ie: some are kind of logic based (ffx's temples for instance).

Of course you could always just make me understand it and I could funnel it in the right direction or some such before I approve them for final posting.

-Neo

[Revelade]

Well I submitted my first review, although I think it's rather long heh. As I was writing, I was thinking, did I really notice these things as I was playing?

About the graphics thing, should we just bunch them into one category, both techinical and design? That way, if a game has EITHER graphics or design that is great, we could mark it as one score.

I guess the only way to SCORE is to compare it to other games. I mean can you really say anything the first time you get a papercut? The only way you could describe it is through facts (paper cut me, ow). The only way you would "rate" it by comparing it to other games...

Yea, I'm a fatty American too >:D, but prices always change. I mean games go from $50 to $20 most of the time. Of course there are collector's editions, but eh, I don't know, it seems to be unnecessary effort to track down prices, when the reader could move his lazy finger and look up Gamestop or whatever.

I guess developers would be better, well I like it better. So instead of knowing having EA games on everything, you would know that The Sims is made by Maxis, Burnout is made by Criterion, etc. But even then... I don't know. I think only the real hard-core people would use this information.

As for my labels, it's as simple as:

Reflex - twitch-movemets, fast reactions, all about timing, DOING the action
Logic - puzzle solving, strategic thinking, common sense, CHOOSING the action
Statistic - attributes, levels, growing stronger, PREDICTING the action

Many games have each of these elements in them. However, I suggest that the review find which element is MOST used in each game, therefore that would be the label.

While you do fight enemies in Zelda using reflexes, in every dungeon, you HAVE to use logical skills to solve those darn puzzles. Was the water temple hard in OoT because of the monsters? No, FIGURING OUT what to do was the hard part.

I just think it's more organized than the ever-growing, massively-multiplayer-online-first-person-shooter-combat-action-adventure-racing labels we have today.

[Neo]

Haha.

Well were you able to submit everything ok? IE: were the category options logical and stuff?

I tried to throw in everything I could think of off the top of my head there.

I might be lumping any and all reviewers into a special usergroup, so maybe I can give yall more access to stuff.

Ill go glance through your review now, though I can't publish it until later (I've still got to MAKE the ranking images ^^;;)...

Might you be interested in adopting the falling? I don't know. Your genre ideas are more "general" and not exactly widely known. You could include it as part of your own personal "Review Format" but I would prefer to be able to organize the reviews via widely excepted terms O_o

Unless of course you wan't to categorize each review that comes in yourself, I'm not sure it would work.

Also, could you use 1-5 instead of 1-3? I like 1-3 but its very restrictive in that you can't have an in between (ie: that was bad, but bearable being 2, 1 being "omg that sucked, almost made me stop playing!") you know?

I just want to make things uniform. You are still personally welcome to give it your own "personal score" (1-3) I suppose.

Iunno. Those kind of scores seem rather personal-based then a little unbiased about the game (although one almost always has a bias about a game before buying a new release one right? O.o).

Bah I'm tired.

I liked your review though, read nicely.

Going to work on rank images tomorrow.

-Neo

[Revelade]

Since you're insisting with the 1-5, I'll conform to that system.

So I guess the categories are:

Graphics
Music
Plot
Gameplay
Replay

Well I was hoping for some new kind of system to be tried here, but if you want to work with the traditional "RPG, FPS, shooter, action, adventure" terms, I could understand.

I just don't want these reviews to be thought of as "just another" review.

Clarify me if I'm wrong.

[Demon_Child]

I would like to add real quick: Reviews on older games is cool to. especially older Sega/SNES games! I love those games (others do as well I hope ^_~) so that would be cool if you specialized in older systems.

I can review games from a much older era than just the Genesis and the SNES. ;)

[GenocideAlive]

Yes, well, I played E.T. for the Atari, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with -5/10, because it was so fucking incredibly bad I was aware of it even then. Football rates along the same lines, thx. GG Atari, thank god you were outclassed.

[Neo]

I can review games from a much older era than just the Genesis and the SNES. ;)
Hehe, that would be cool =P

Rev its not that I don't want to try something new, its that your suggesting a very strict ranking and genre system, that leans little room for compromise... What happens if a game is both reflexive and statistic based? What happens when someone feels a game they are looking for should be under logic, but isn't?

=/

See the problem? I am thinking in terms of visibility, ease of navigation and such. We want to invite people to browse the reviews, not confuse them with new classifications and terms.

But like I mentioned, we could set a new category and use the l/s/r classifications in addition to the standard ones.

-Neo

[claus]

I'll do it I play alot of games around the year and would be more than happy to post my input.

[EvilEggCracker]

I tried to register at your website Neo but I never got the confirmation e-mail...:S

[Neo]

I tried to register at your website Neo but I never got the confirmation e-mail...:S
O.o

Did you use a correct email address?

Thats strange, and its not a confirmation email, its just an email sent to you with your password (so if you use a fake email, you'd not get to login >_>;;) I'll check...

Oh bother.

Did you check any spam folders or anything?

Oh well, check your pms.

-Neo

http://www.kupatrix.com/node/253

First review! And its from Revelade.

I'm still unsure how to handle the reviews, that is, how to setup navigation to them and such you know?

-Neo

[100thlurker]

For some damn reason, when I try to log on it just refreshes without logging me in!

[Revelade]

Hmmm, did you ever get my other review I posted? I'm wondering if I could change it for the new format. I didn't save it...

Anyway, Ubisoft is one word and the developer is Dargaud. Do you want us to look up pictures or are you going to do them yourself?

[Neo]

Pictures are something I can do, since I've got to find screenshots that aren't branded anyways (whats the big idea? its not your game O_o).

Bah. Stupid thing.

I changed the top, and added some external links to the bottom (official website, demos, and a gamefaqs link >_> -- I dunno, I'm not a fan of XIII!)

Does that look better?

-Neo

[Neo]

http://www.kupatrix.com/reviews/games/latest

Woot :)

Hows it looking?

I'm thinking next I should specify review guidelines (ie: the format to follow).

I think I really like an intro paragraph explaining the game first, so that someone can read through it at a glance and decide whether or not it might interest them. Then furthur down we can break it uhm into graphics/storyline/etc...

EDIT: Hey Rev, I added your 3-game types in as a category. Made it optional though. Maybe it'l catch on eh? Oh well =P

-Neo

[Revelade]

http://www.hostmypic.info/uploads/66100df80a.jpg

I guess that's how I meant for it to be structured. It's not replacing the adventure/action whatevers, but grouping those that play in the like. I know this isn't covering everything, but this is just for you to get the idea.

[Neo]

www.kupatrix.com

Check the first news post there.

Revelade, would you be willing to create a small page about your Game Types? IE: So we could link to it in case anyone has questions about it? Like, its just for a "FYI" type of page (ie: Info Article, what it means, how games are classified).

I'm bone tired atm, so I'm getting off. Rev if you've got any other suggestions let me know.

-Neo

[Revelade]

Well, what I could do is I could write a page here in this thread for you to use, because I don't know how to make my own site to post that mumbo jumbo. Or I could send it to you in a word document, whatever fits. I'm glad your system is precise and goes through probably every aspect of a game.

The term graphics just seems technical. And as you said, technicality is something that can't be measured because it simply gets replaced ever generation. It would be like labeling FF3 a 1/5 because it uses the limits of the SNES. Therefore, I suggest another term such as "Design" or "Visuals".

Instead of music, you could replace that word with audio to include as you say, voice overs.

You still need some more subgenres to help the reviewer choose from. There has to be racing, fighting, platformer, etc. Other isn't going to help the reader figure Mario from Mario Kart.

Excellent and let's hope there's more people to join us.

[Neo]

Well, what I could do is I could write a page here in this thread for you to use, because I don't know how to make my own site to post that mumbo jumbo. Or I could send it to you in a word document, whatever fits. I'm glad your system is precise and goes through probably every aspect of a game.

The term graphics just seems technical. And as you said, technicality is something that can't be measured because it simply gets replaced ever generation. It would be like labeling FF3 a 1/5 because it uses the limits of the SNES. Therefore, I suggest another term such as "Design" or "Visuals".

Instead of music, you could replace that word with audio to include as you say, voice overs.

You still need some more subgenres to help the reviewer choose from. There has to be racing, fighting, platformer, etc. Other isn't going to help the reader figure Mario from Mario Kart.

Excellent and let's hope there's more people to join us.
Just type something up here if you wish, or "submit a review" -- I'll catch it for what it is.

Yeah, the genres were something I just all did on the spot, so I'm sure I missed a few =/

As for graphics/music those were just generic terms. I'm not very err... creative in terms of writing. So I just through up what I first thoght of.

Visuals would work, not sure about audio, I think that sounds technically :/ But I don't know. Its better then just Music.

EDIT: I was thinking, maybe I could setup even another category, Multiplayer, Multiplayer (Online), and Singleplayer. Although that might be a bit excessive. Although the way that my categories are setup, it allows you to via all games that are Playstation, or all games that are RPGs, etc... what if people wanted to find Multiplayer Online games, or singleplayer games? =/

-Neo