Orc and Night elf are dangerous!!! [Archive]

Ole-The-Murder

05-04-2004, 1:01 AM

themasterve

05-04-2004, 7:53 AM

I Think that ORCS/UNDEAD are good too.... try to rush with Grunts using Vampiric Aura from the Dread Lord, they just dont die... and the Spirit Wolves, it´s just too good, if game goes long try getting Taurens with Vampiric Aura, that´s the best and a Spirit Walker to revive them when they die... that´s a good attack, obviously enchanced with a good Air and Anti Air Support... PD. Never forget to get Witch Doctors, they ROX with the healing wards and some shamans to get bloodlust....

KexMex

05-15-2004, 10:16 PM

y'now, humans and undead really suck. i mean sure, the humans have the ability of setting up the defence line, as they can build without that... grey... thing. but humans almost rely on priests, and can't aid undead in battle, whose units get hurt by it. orc/night elf was a strong team, the "grunt charge-archer support" strat really kicked ass. fill in with shadow hunter, u got it! HEAL WAVE, and the grunts will live to "see another moonrise"!

Exedore

05-16-2004, 4:29 PM

Priests can heal Undead units if I recall correctly. Only the Paladin's Holy light spell can't target undead. Also, if you're talking about a UD/Human team, they aren't that bad, but you need to rush with them. Both races lack melee units with staying power, so you need to make their number advantage count.

napast

05-19-2004, 8:59 AM

Exedore is right,both sides are strong.But if you ask me to choose,i would rather choose combination of human/orcs or human/UD.I liked Night Elves,but when i started to play with Humans...they really kick asses,and Orcs are way too good,but they're expensive.I'm a newbie,but i know some tricks and i know every unit's strenth,damage and things like that!I am also looking for somebody to help me with strategies and other stuff,i don't know how to post my replay to show you excellent battles,especially in Footman Wars!!!!!!And remember that the every combination is good for something.

zeh

05-27-2004, 7:15 PM

Well in the early game, the Orc/Ne team is a good ass kicker, as long as the players use the most of their races, raged for Ne, and Melle for Orc
But in the later game, the Human/Ud r the greater

Jeff-Palmer

06-07-2004, 10:19 PM

i think the great team Are
HUMAN and NIGHTELF
use Paladin with HIGHT defend
and night elf to swap all Things

Darkeggy

06-17-2004, 4:50 PM

i think the great team Are
HUMAN and NIGHTELF
use Paladin with HIGHT defend
and night elf to swap all Things
What???

Orc and Nightelf are the two best races to use together. Rush with Grunts and Archers, tech to Grunt/Shamen with Hipporiders.

Jirosian_Knight

07-09-2004, 4:40 AM

In my experience, orcs and night elves are very good together and can chew through rank after rank of undead or humans. However, when you put the latter two together, they hold up pretty well. But, in a war of attrition, the orcs/night elves would win the day. I have also noticed that human/orc works well together. With grunts and footmen bringing up the front with a mountain king as backup, riflemen behind, priests and sorceresses third, you have a pretty good rushing force. Later in the game, still use grunts, but have tauren ahead of them, with knights and steam tanks, catapults behind them with riflemen and kodo beasts, backed up with a final wave of priests and sorceresses. Supplement this attack force with a fully leveled up Mountain King and Tauren Chieftan to lay the ungodly smak down upon your opponent.

Ender

07-12-2004, 8:15 PM

Still....let's think about human/undead combo. I mean - just look - frost wyrms, and gargoyles, with an obsidan statue, joined by an human army with a mountain king or archmage, perhaps some dozen riflemen support and a couple footmen meshed with knights, then one priest and one sorceress, then a dreadlord undead hero with some crypt fiends, ghouls, abonimations, necromancers...and the necromancers make dozens of skeletons...aaaa... the crescendo! Whould rip up your silly "gruntapults" and hippo ridders, AA, trueshotted-demolishers...they all get crushed, I tell you! AAACCHH! And to not talk about dragonhawk riders coming down hill....woaahahahahhah...
So, let's look at this:
Undead-Wyrms, Gargs, Stats, Fiends, Ghouls, Aboms, Necs
Human-Rifles, Foots, Knights, Priest, Sorc, Hawks

So, you'll be able to have like, what, 3 of each unit? Well done. especially the One Stat, One Priest, and One Sorc. They'll make a LOT of difference...right...

Now my strat, I can fully tech these units. Fully teched army of 12-24 Grunts, with one Hero and like 12 pults? Take out everything you have on the ground easy. Night Elf with Hipporiders and Dryads with potm? Are you kidding? Your gargs will die in no time, sure they may take a few hips with them. Whoopdeedo. The archers/dryads, after throughley PWNING your gargs, then attack you feeble 3 or so hawks. Then everything attacks your wyrms. By this time, the hippos can be remounted, allowed total destruction of your ground forces.

kthxbye

gischerfischer

07-15-2004, 2:43 AM

one of the problems with orc-NE team is that when you cant go demolishers+hunts because the splash damage will kill the Night Elf's hunts

but a decent all around combo is simply huntress and grunt early game, then the orc goes wind rider grunt while the ne swtiches to mg archer in order to counter any anti air

spastic-ninJa

07-15-2004, 4:07 AM

Orc and Night Elf are quite a lot better than UD / HU. Why? Because you are combining the best melee units in the game with the best ranged units in the game. I mean, fully upped Archers and Grunts, with bloodlust, healing wards, maybe a Kodo for command aura, and Trueshot aura = bloodbath. Seen how much damage archers do with those stats? Approx. 50. With bloodlust, they are attacking once more per every two shots. You can easily get 30 of them, and by force-firing on opposition heroes (which are very good: DK, AM, MK, Lich; which aid the UD/HU armies immensely), you have just taken out the primary atttacking units of the opposition army.

It is a cheap (money-wise) strategy, and very effective, as Grunts and Archers are the most basic troops of the Orc/NE armies. Rushes by HU/UD = no problem, as you have already begun to build your army. Also, if the opposition are teching, you can destroy them straight away. This strategy is like a hybrid of teching and basic unit massing, therefore it is quite strong through all periods of the game.

paladin_of_light

10-01-2004, 10:24 AM

what do you think knigts supported necromancer with his skeletons and frosts

ı need the three coridor ( map) please send me my email is sercan_ucak@ hotmail.com

Prozerran

10-01-2004, 2:20 PM

For crying out loud people... the Human / Orc team beats ALL and here's why.

Orc mass Grunts and Pults. Humans mass Rifles and Casters. That's it. Enough said? There's no quicker, more powerful, more well-rounded strategy than the one right here. Sorry, Grunt Archer is good, but Grunt / Dwarf is better.

tb473

10-01-2004, 4:51 PM

hey all,

Also there's one thing about the NE/Orc race combo that can come in handy. NE gets bears and hippo riders late game (if the grunt/archer strat somehow doesn't work) and the Orc player gets Tauren and Wyvrens. Bears + Tauren + Roar= probably the best meele in the game, and don't forget Bloodlust:tup: . Hippo Ryders + Wyvrens = great air combo:tup: . If he's got air, dismount Hippos and kill. If he's got lots of static d. at the base, orc gets demolishers, and ne gets mountain giants (with tree clubs and hardened skin) or chimaeras ( depending if he has massed air or massed troops). It's a great late-game strat for this pair of races, and I hope it helps u guys in the future.

tb473

spastic-ninJa

10-01-2004, 8:35 PM

Goddamn, I've typed up this post three times already and stupid vBulletin keeps logging me out when I click "Reply!" Gar!

Anyway, I'm going to keep it brief now, as I've typed it up too often already:

Archers > Riflemen. With all buffs and auras, archers deal 23% more damage per second than riflemen, and there would be approximately 3:2 archers to riflemen, becuase of population and costs. So realistically, archers deal 34.5% more damage per second than riflemen. Yes they have less HP and armour with Riflemen's buffs, however, due to archers' superior range, archers can deal damage from afar, while riflemen have to come closer to the battle, taking more damage, etc. Now, you could try to counter archers with AoE. Good luck -- you have to get close to the archers, whilst they are forcefiring you, dealing huge damage, meaning your hero dies very quickly. Also, archers have shadowmeld and elune's grace, so they take less damage from piercing and magic, and can hide at night. Also, archers are base units, while riflemen require a blacksmith, which comes in later on, and the NE player will have a lot more archers than HU has riflemen.

Now, as for casters, NE is superior. Although 'Breakers steal all of the positive buffs from NE, Dryads counter the 'Breakers w/ Abolish Magic, removing all buffs from the battlefield. However, Human casters and 'Breakers are generally weak, whereas NE (anti) casters are powerful (Dryads, DotC, DotT, are all more powerful than Human counterparts).

That's why I believe that NE/Orc is superior to HU/Orc.

Cheapo5020

10-01-2004, 9:17 PM

I dare to contradict you on this issue spastic-ninja, and this is why riflemen are superior to archers.

Sure archers do more damage than riflemen.....with all positive buffs and auras. Riflemen on average do 21 damage unupgraded and 28 damage when upgraded. Archers do 17 unupgraded and 26 when full upgraded. In addition, archers only have 245 health. Lets see, a couple of shockwaves should do the trick......... This also means that if you ever catch the NE player without his orc player helping, he is going to lose his archers VERY fast. Archers can shoot farther than riflemen, that is true, but it isnt much farther.

And for your casters. Dryads may be able to dispel slow and other buffs, but they still can't dispel heal. Spell breakers also have feedback, meaning that they do 20 extra damage a hit vs spell casters, and they destroy 20 mana each hit as well. In addtion, Spell breakers last longer because they have 600 health while dryads only have 435. Druids of the claw and talon are both powerful, but they don't have good stuff like inner fire, slow, polymorph.....you get the idea.

spastic-ninJa

10-02-2004, 8:30 PM

KillJoY

10-02-2004, 10:11 PM

Agreed...

Cheapo5020

10-03-2004, 12:52 AM

'Cept that everytime a buff is cast, it will be dispelled by the dryads. Also, everytime Heal is cast, then Faeries' Mana Flare will slam the priests, dealing some nasty damage, and will eventually kill the priests unless they are set to autocast-off, meaning they are useless.
Wait, where did faerie dragons come from? That would mean that you would have to get an ancient of wind and lore, while the humans only need 1 structure, the arcane sanctum. Dryads actually don't do a lot of damage (18 unupgraded, 24 completely upgraded) and in addition, you would need to expand in order to be able to produce enough dryads to counter the casters, cause you would need 2 ancient of lores. Dryads also only have 200 mana, and that means that when they are compeletely full of mana, they can afford 4 dispels. Master priests and sorceresses have 400 mana, which will make it hard for the dryads to keep up with the spellcasting, especially considering that you only have one ancient of lore making dryads, since you have faerie dragons. They dryads help, but they can't keep up with the opposing spellcasters. Also, the time spent dispelling the spells from priests and sorceresses is time that the dryads aren't spending fighting. As for the faerie dragons, rifles, as well as any other basic anti-air unit, tear them to shreds in a matter of seconds, even with the +12 armor gained from doing mana flare. In addition, mana flare can only do damage to a spellcaster once every .75 seconds, which means that it helps, but it doesn't do a seriously immense amount of damage.

Also, as mentioned before, as soon as the TC gets in range to SW, he will be carved up by the twenty or so force-firing archers. Not only that, but SW wouldn't deal enough damage to kill a single one of the archers.Piercing attacks only do 50% damage to heroes, which means that your archers (assuming all upgrades to attack, including roar and trueshot aura) are only doing about 18 damage a hit (assuming NO armor), and considering the large amount of health that a TC has, it is going to take a while for archers to kill him, especially considering that if your archers have a priestess with a lvl 3 trueshot aura, then the orc player probably has a TC with reincarnation. Assuming a lvl 3 shockwave (a decent player would choose shockwave because of the archers) it would only take 2 shockwaves to completely kill them, and 1 shockwave for a group of grunts to run in and kill them in about 2 hits each.

spastic-ninJa

10-03-2004, 2:10 AM

Sorry, I mentioned Faeries in one of my posts which didn't get posted (due to vBulletin screw-up). But you would need an AoW anyway if you were to get DotTs. Also, if you haven't expanded by tier 2 or 3, you deserve to lose. I expand with every race (bar Orc w/ air) in tier 1, so I don't think that expansions will be a problem, especially with the inexpensive nature of archers. Also, to get 'Breakers you need to be at Tier 3 (EDIT: sorry, I realise this is wrong, thanks to Cheapo(UNEDIT), and the NE/Orc army will have already attacked by then (think of it logically, if you could create an army as fast as this combination, would you wait until you opponents had teched?). So for the Human army to effective at all, then they would have to be at tier 3 w/ sanctum. NE only needs to be at tier 2 w/ two production buildings (2nd AoL is not essential, because you do not need many dryads at all). The signifance of this is that the NE army is ready to be assembled quicker than the HU army, and can thus attack faster.

In addition, mana flare can only do damage to a spellcaster once every .75 seconds, which means that it helps, but it doesn't do a seriously immense amount of damage.Which happens to be faster than any casters' rate of casting. It does do a helluva lot of damage (up to 90) to casters, especially spells such as Slow or Inner Fire (faeries' mana flare deals 3 damage per point of mana, so max damage output is not hard to attain).

Presuming your TC makes it through the Grunts, Orc heroes, Night Elf heroes, to attack the archers, and is on full HP, it will only take three -> five seconds of force-firing to kill off the TC. If your riflemen decide to FF the faeries, then the HU/Orc army will lose a primary hero, while the NE/Orc army will lose a few faeries. Not to mention that everytime a Priest heals (once a second), he receives 15 points of damage. If you have so many priests that there are too many for the faeries to counter, then you have less riflemen, meaning less damage output, meaning more damage dealt by opposing forces (who aren't being killed as quickly by the riflemen).

Cheapo5020

10-03-2004, 10:24 AM

Also, to get 'Breakers you need to be at Tier 3, and the NE/Orc army will have already attacked by then...Spellbreakers are actually only tier 2, which means that the human wouldn't have to wait too long to reach their full potential. The spellbreakers can then steal spells such as roar, rejuvination, etc., which your dryads will spend even more time dispelling instead of fighting, and, the spellbreakers are immune to mana flare as well.
Presuming your TC makes it through the Grunts, Orc heroes, Night Elf heroes, to attack the archers, and is on full HP, it will only take three -> five seconds of force-firing to kill off the TC. If your riflemen decide to FF the faeries, then the HU/Orc army will lose a primary hero, while the NE/Orc army will lose a few faeries.That really depends on the battlefield. In some conditions, yes, you would be right about that, and it would be more worthwhile shockwaving the melee units instead, but in a more open area, a TC could make it to the archers easily, and when I previously quoted, I was assuming that the archers had all upgrades to attack, and all positive buffs and auras. Odds are, the archers aren't going to have all attack upgrades by the time this battle happens. I was also assuming that the TC had NO armor, but a fair assumption would be that the TC has about 4-5 armor. Shockwave has a range equal to that of the upgraded archer's range, which means that the TC probably isn't going to be hit by all the archers until he is standing right next to one of them. If you move the archers together to attack him, then that makes casting shockwave that much easier. It is also a fair assumption that the TC has maybe a potion of healing, and a TC could make it away from the archers pretty fast, especially with endurance aura.

Lordshadowbane

10-03-2004, 3:55 PM

Ok lets see. Hu+UD vsNE+Orcs
HU- would have the normal cheese. The godly AM, MK, sorc, rifles, mortars, and priests. For lots of healing, sheep, and pain for the enemy. Throw in some knights and griphs and hawks.
UD- the cheesy tri hero nuke (CL, DK, Lich) and stats, fiends, gargs, ghouls, destros, necs, sheesand wyrms. Rarely I see abombs.
Strengths- Powerful casters, mass heros, and rule the skys
Orcs- Tauren, FS/SH with grunts, taurens, shamans, SW, wyverns, docs, bats, zerks, raiders and a few kodos. Powerful melee and but lacks AA when the bats are through. (like 5 raiders and trolls are gonna stop 10 frost wyrms)
NE- KOTG, POTM, and DH/Warden with hunts, archers, Dotts, DOTC, 3 mg's, chims, dryads and hipps (no archers). Powerful ranged and mobility (cept the bears and MG) and godly air with hipps to tank and chims to destroy.
Battle
The HU polymorphs the orc's army but the dryads debuff them (so dryads lose 50 and sorcs lose 220). Orcs are bloodlusted and then taken away by breakers then dispelled and Bears roar to use up the breakers mana. Hipps and gargs cancel each and bats take down hawks and griphs. Wyrms are murderd by archers and dryads. Healing wards are set down then taken by breakers but then are destroyed. Chims kill the weak knights and abombs. The breakers are dead by now so the orcish and elvish army is bloodlustted. Kodo+TS aura+ Endurance aura= A lot of dmg for the chims. Rifles+fiends take down chims. Tuaren take down the rifles+fiends and fairie dragons kill the casters. GG
Victor
NE+Orcs

-Bane

spastic-ninJa

10-03-2004, 10:45 PM

Indeed.

Final Note:

Spellbreakers are actually only tier 2, which means that the human wouldn't have to wait too long to reach their full potential. The spellbreakers can then steal spells such as roar, rejuvination, etc., which your dryads will spend even more time dispelling instead of fighting, and, the spellbreakers are immune to mana flare as well.
Check B.net or in-game, it doesn't matter, but 'Breakers are Tier 3 units, and require Castle and Arcane Vault. Your human army will be destroyed, due to superior tier 2 of NE. (EDIT: Erm, yeah, sorry. Very stupid mistake on my behalf, but I genuinely believed that 'Breakers were tier 3 UNEDIT)

It is also a fair assumption that the TC has maybe a potion of healing, and a TC could make it away from the archers pretty fast, especially with endurance aura.If only TC could windwalk through the masses of grunts/tauren that he had to get through to get to the archers...

Sure, what you say is possible, if none of the Orc units or NE casters, not to mention heroes, decided to attack the TC. Odds of that are very minimal -- would you let a TC run rampage over the archers? Not to mention a few spells such as Mana Burn, Entalging Roots, or opposition TC spells.

I'm sorry, but what you're saying sounds so surreal that I don't think any player of decency will allow you to do this.

Cheapo5020

10-04-2004, 12:47 AM

OK, you win the HU vs. NE argument, but that still doesn't mean that NE + Orc is better than HU + Orc. NE is good vs. human because of good antispellcasters like faerie dragons and dryads. However, vs different mixed teams, human spells are much better than NE spells (under most circumstances), mostly because humans have much more autocast spells. But....

Check B.net or in-game, it doesn't matter, but 'Breakers are Tier 3 units, and require Castle and Arcane Vault. Your human army will be destroyed, due to superior tier 2 of NE.I did check B.net, and it says that spellbreakers require a keep and arcane vault. Ask any good human player, or ask B.net. This would give the humans a much better fighting chance versus the tier 2 of the NE.

I also think that you still are greatly overestimating the power of your archers, and you are also assuming that the battle would take place upon some sort of chokepoint, even though the battle could easily take place on an open battlefield, meaning that the TC could just run out of sight, run back in sight, shockwave, then run back out of sight. What happens also greatly depends upon the lvl of the TC, especially if the TC if lvl 6+, cause if it is, the focus firing archers won't be able to kill it so easily, even with entangle roots, mana burn, etc.. A lvl 5 TC ( what I belive is a fair enough assumption) has the equivalent of 1250 health, when it has no items, and it takes half the damage from piercing attacks, meaning that the archers are probably going to be doing 14-15 damage a hit, which is 10*14+ 10*15= 290, which theoretically means that it would take the archers about 5 seconds to kill the tc when focus firing. However, the archers aren't going to instantly focus fire on the TC as soon as they see it, nor would the heroes. By the time the NE player was able to get them to focus fire, the TC probably would have let loose his shockwave.

Anyway, don't even bother worrying about the above situation, because most people aren't "smart enough" (or dumb enough, by what you think) to try something like that in a game anyway, and it would only work under the appropriate circumstances.

spastic-ninJa

10-04-2004, 4:35 AM

I did check B.net, and it says that spellbreakers require a keep and arcane vault. Ask any good human player, or ask B.net. This would give the humans a much better fighting chance versus the tier 2 of the NE.
Requirements:Arcane Vault, Keep
Oh shit, burnage to the max >.<

I felt for sure that 'Breakers required Castle + Vault. I'm positive that this was the case in a prior patch (and have seen it on Mojo's guide at some stage).... Oh well, what's been said has been said, my apologies.

Anyway, don't even bother worrying about the above situation, because most people aren't "smart enough" (or dumb enough, by what you think) to try something like that in a game anyway, and it would only work under the appropriate circumstances.
You seem to be forgetting that the Orcish ally actually exists. Although it may appear that I'm stupid (goddamn 'Breakers), I know that a TC can single-handedly destroy NE at level 6. However, how is your TC getting to level 6 by tier 2? At most he will get to level 5 , and that's with a fair amount of creeping (he will have to help defensively early on against the predicted archer/grunt harassment in early game, thus not having as much time for creeping), not to mention having to be the primary hero.

Also, his army has to break the lines of the (NE)Orcs in a densely packed battlefield, with Riflemen and Archers raining death down from the flanks and rear. Unless your TC does not engage battle -- in which case you lose a formidable attacking unit -- in order to flank the archers -- which is quite risky (more mobile, more vulnerable to heroes, archers), unless you bring defensive grunts (more defensive, less vulnerable, but not very mobile (I realise TC that has 'durance aura, but I'm referring to AI pathing, not speed)), in which case the NE player has been alerted to your presence and can react accordingly and/or they can continue breaking through the weakened ranks of the Orc player to openly attack the riflemen (due to less grunts in opposing Orc battleline, as well as no TC). I'm sorry, but the risk just greatly outweighs the reward. Whether or not this is an open battle or not, it means nothing.

EDIT: Okay, I have to apologise for messing up the 'Breakers. One of my first screw-ups (attribute wise) on this forum, so I hope you'll forgive me :)

The TC flanking might work if you had an extremely sneaky Orc player, and adding a BM to the mixture (attack from other side -> draw archers fire) would be interesting to note.

I think that it's time to move outside of this little debate, and begin on, say the merits of powerful tier 3 units versus each other, but you can reply to the above TC section of my post if you want. Stalemate in this particular scenario?

Cheapo5020

10-04-2004, 9:32 AM

Fair enough. Even better than the tc idea is a lvl 6 blademaster with bladestorm.......oh well, forget about that

I think that the HU and Orc win vs. NE and Orc. At tier 3, the human gets both knights and griffins, in addition to polymorph, inner fire, etc. A mixed combo of tauren and griffins with bloodlust would be a hard combo to stop, especially with rifle support, healing wards, healing priests, and slow.

I still think the NE is good; bears are nice, in addition to mountain giants and chims, but gryphons beat chims in this situation, because they have storm hammers, and they can act as anti-air as well. Mountain giants wouldn't really be necessary (maybe one or two would be ok), because the tauren would be better meat due to the immense damage that they do. Bears would be the same, their slots would be filled by the orc player's tauren. That would leave the NE player with either chims, or getting more tier 2. The ancients of war would only be good for making archers or hippogriph riders; hunts would be useless, especially against tier 3 melee. The most effective option for the NE player would be to go hippogriphs + chims, which isnt too bad, but I think that the human option is more effective. The Humans would be much more effective at tier 3, even though the effect of knights wouldn't be necessary because of tauren. They still have powerful spellcasters with new spells, and they have gryphons as well.

spastic-ninJa

10-06-2004, 9:52 PM

Yeah, the only way I think that NE/Orc would be more effective than any other combo in-game is if they harassed hard and fast, with quick tech to tier 2. Otherwise, the power and versatility of Humans make them a much better choice of NE. MG's take up far too much pop, and bears don't have the power or defense of Knights. Steam engines + gryphons > any NE AA, unless you include Dryads, which get eaten alive by demos/knights/tauren.

LiE.FRISS

01-02-2005, 7:19 AM

I think that Grunts with a TC&SH can hold the line while archers can focus on powerful units or heros. The KoTgs entangle can hold in place the enemy TC to give the archers time to kill him.(btw it damages him too) You can do this from the beginning of the game & as you ar upgrading your archers & leveling up your KoTg this combo remains effective to the end of the game. Later the should go bears to get roar&rejuvenation. Roar takes all of the brakers/priests mana who can steal/dispel it just from the frontline units. The archers still will be under the efect of roar & the Orc shamans BLOODLUST. The orc should use all his casters:
shamans for BLOODLUST, doctors for scouting/stunning/healing,spirit walkers to linking/dispelling inner fire & the enemys BLOODLUST. The Orc as you see in this strat will use a LOT of casters so for this reason will not go for tauren(no resources to train them) So let's see what do we have here:
1; Powerful army early game & a good herokilling combo durin the whole game
2; Endurance aura, Trueshot aura, kodos
3; Roar, Statis traps, Healing wards, Spirit link, Disenchant

P.S.:Spirit link works extremely well with Healing wave

Lordshadowbane

01-02-2005, 10:06 AM

Archers>rifles.
Archers can be outmassed more than rifles. Archers have elunes grace. Archers have faster attack speed and more range. They can FF a lot better. Rifles shoot way to slow.

p0wer.0f.bark

01-12-2005, 3:02 PM

Me and my friend are lvl 17 with orc ne trust me its a deadly combination

xodkrm

01-12-2005, 7:13 PM

I think that Orcs and Night Elves are the best. At the begining, the U n d e a d A n d H u m a n s might seem to be wining, but as time goes on, the orcs and nightelf's spell caters change the tide of the battle . The orc player creates the meat shield while the night elf player goes ranged. I think that D r y a d s and Farie Dragons are extreamly important against human players becuase human players rely heavily on casters. Dryads can kill the slow effect on your creatures while the dragons are owning the casters.

It is also important to get some troll riders to kill some of those gay flying units.

LiE.FRISS

01-13-2005, 12:06 PM

I said before that Orc and NE are owning, but I have played with my friend a very interesting strat.

The Orc starts with a Panda and starts producing meat. The UD starts with a DL & goes for crypt fiends (no I am not crazy, his aura will be good for the grunts).
They are going fast creeping to reach lvl 3 for both heroes.
Tier 2
The Orc buys some catapults & kodos(1-2). His second hero is the TC.
The UD buys some statues to heal & for destroyers for later game. The second hero is Lich or the CL.
As you can see this duel has the most powerful instant AOE spells(the panda's combo/carrion swarm/shockwave/frost nova or impale or both)
Casting 2 times these spells in battle will ruin any army & the army supporting the heros is balanced & powerful enough to hold the line(but don't have to;) ) Calculate a bit & you will see that I am right.
The only chance to ruin this strat is to rush, but if you are skilled enough of creeping & defending your base it should be no problem to hold off until the second heros arrive wth their spells.
So try it and tell me what are your experiences/opinions. Have fun!

Plehotron

04-08-2005, 9:35 AM

the Orc/Nighteelf are ones of the bests razes in the game the ORC are super Brutals and the Elf super mistycs.All razes in War Craft are very good viva Warcraft

MagicJuggler

04-10-2005, 5:10 PM

Hmm...I'll have to say Human/Orc for this one. First is killing the NEs, then Orcs. This does not take heroes into account yet.

The general build. Humans need Mortar Teams and Spellbreakers, supported by Priests and Sorceresses and a few Dragonhawk and Gryphon Riders. Orcs are Tauren supported by Raiders and Shamans/Witch Docs, with a few backup Bat Riders for emergency. Of course, this is relatively high tier, so for the early phase, one can try Footmen (for Defend)/Headhunters. (I did the math; Headhunters do more damage than riflemen and cost one food less. Rifles have a faster ROF but in the end, two rifles after 6 seconds fire 8 times, three headhunters fire 9 and for more damage, all at same food cost).

Vs. those archers/huntresses/dryads: Mortar Teams. That's right, I said Mortar Teams. They're organic, meaning one can buff them with Bloodlust/Endurance Aura, and the Frag Shells doing an additional 20 damage is just lovely. 79xunarmored modifier (exception:archers)+20 is ouch. Plus they're only three food (two for a Shaman).

Vs. Druid of the Claw/Talon, Spellbreakers/Raiders are quite a nice combo. Should the Talons morph, be nice and Ensnare them.

Mountain Giants are something to worry about though, with their insane durability. Chances are they will be Bloodlusted/Roared/etc, and spell resistance (plus Dryad Support) means Polymorph is not an option. I'm probably for keeping it Ensnared until everything else is taken care of, then focusing on it.

Vs. enemy Faerie Dragons, use Sorceresses to cast invisibility on Troll Batriders who then Unstable Concoction the Dragons to smithereens. Chimaera are taken out of the field by Dragonhawks, etc.

To deal with Orcs...

Grunts are a case of outmeleeing the opponent. Tauren I have to fear though, especially with Dryad backup. However, they're melee, meaning Ensnare them until the rest of the opponents are dead. Besides, why focus on them when they'll most likely be revived by those ever-pesky Spirit Walkers? Hmm...suddenly I'm told to use Gryphon Riders for this battle. Magic damage will kill the Walkers should they attempt to go Ethereal to escape the wrath of the Mortar Teams, and the Magic Damage does x2 vs. Heavy Armor. The problem is if they add anti-air from archers, but those can be killed by Mortar first. Here's my plan...

M MSM MSM MSM M

W W
F AADAAADAAADA F
F TGGTGGTGGT F

RRRRRRRRRR

R=Raider. G=Grunt. T=Tauren A=Archer D=Dryad W=Walker S=Sorceress. F=Gryphon Rider

Sorceresses Invisible Mortar Teams and themselves, sneak behind line of death. Raiders move into place. They ensnare Tauren and Grunts, while Mortars then focus fire to kill Dryads, then archers, then walkers. By now, the Ensnare will have worn off, and the Tauren will probably be chasing the Mortar teams...only to be Polymorphed now while the Archers are being blown to smithereens. Once the AA is gone, the Gryphon Riders move in to kill off the heavies. Notice how I am doing this for a lot less food than my foe.

Kodos die nicely to Mortars...almost too nicely I might add.

The beautiful thing about Spellbreakers is they can steal Wards. This pretty much makes the Witch Doc useless. Stealing Bloodlust is also nice.

Batriders can be Aerial Shackled. They won't be cloaked seeing as they're not playing humans.

Heroes are where the game gets interesting though. I left them out of the equation for now, but will discuss them later.

SpeedyWorm1

04-10-2005, 7:55 PM

Stop Reviving Threads!!!!!!!!

MagicJuggler

04-11-2005, 5:06 PM

Hmm...2 days is a bit early to declare a thread dead, no? I haven't gotten to heroes yet.

Night Elves and Orcs both have really good heroes. The Blademaster and Demon Hunter are beastly melee units, the Shadow Hunter and Keeper of the Grove are both excellent supporters, and the potential damage done by Starfall is frightening. Trueshot and Thorns Aura are both useful for shifting combat in favor of ranged weaponry. What's to do?

The Humans/Orcs have the melee combo of Mountain King/Blademaster; one stuns, the other kills. The Archmage is a wonderful hero to have, what with Brilliance Aura (and in my previous post, I've mentioned my anti-Faerie Dragon scheme so yes I can cast Magic in combat) and Mass Teleport, and should one get him in the right position (again, the Sorceress is a goddess), the Tauren Chieftan has potential to do tons of damage with his AoE attacks; a single Warstomp doing 300 damage capped to 9 targets=potentially 2700 HP worth of pain. A Blademaster can follow this up quite nicely; immediately go to Bladestorm, instantly killing any archers (for they will be down to 10 HP each). For killing individual targets, the Blood Mage is evil. Banish a target, and Focus Fire it with Gryphon Riders, Flame Strike, Phoenix (a beefier Gryphon), etc.