terrorist's manipulation of US elections

[AppleTurtle]

ok, 1st of all, even if you arnt in the US, even if you hate us, this WILL impact your life if i am right.

terrorists have impacted the spanish election with the train bombing, every1 paying attention to world news should know that. funny how rebel groups of iraquis are rising up just as the US elections are coming around... i give 2 scenarios to bush.

1. he pulls out troops as planned, then gets verbally beaten for not finishing what he started and uniting iraq.

2. he leaves troops in and he gets verbally beaten for prolonging the stay in iraq.

odds are the terrorists are planing this, this mean that the terrorist groups though different, do coordinate against a common enemy (every1 who is not them). im not expecting bush to win the election. the terrorist see that they have an indirect power over the people, and are giving the leaders the ball in cup trick, but thare is no ball.

any thoughts?

ps. i know i cant spell, i think im half dyslexic (why do they make that word so hard to spell?)

[Battlecruiser]

Yeah I agree but I don't want Bush I office in 2004. It was his fault that he wanted to fight a war with the government of Iraq. Bush only wanted to fight the war in Iraq because of personal reasons. He even knew there weren't WMDs. He lied on purpose.

[Whiteknight]

That, and he was too busy during campaign days (before he was the president) to learn our PM's name. Grrr... It takes, what, 5 seconds to learn the name of a person you will be dealing with for four years? Grr....

Oh well, I'm not partial to my PM anyways.

Who is going to be running against Bush?

[Nuts]

Yeah I agree but I don't want Bush I office in 2004. It was his fault that he wanted to fight a war with the government of Iraq. Bush only wanted to fight the war in Iraq because of personal reasons. He even knew there weren't WMDs. He lied on purpose.

Show me a single shred of evidence to support this theory.

Then show me how Bush lied, while Tony Blair and 30 other heads of states were simply duped while having access to the same exact evidence as did Bush. Then proceed to explain how the U.N. secutiry council and Hans Blix even believed that Iraq possessed WMD's, yet somehow, amongst all of these people throughout the world, you single out George Walker Bush as the only party guilty of lying. Explain how Bush single handedly fooled 30 independent countries into supporting a war that was based on lies.

Care to justify your remarks?

[Battlecruiser]

Supporting a war? Some major countries didn't. Such as Germany or France. Also I didn't say he is the only one who lied. He is the only who lied and is part of this discussion. Also if you saw one of the Dan Abrams reports shows you would understand what I am talking about.

[KesTrel]

Do you realize that you're president is spending more money in iraq then in the USA. He said he was not into nation building, apparently he was talking about america. He spending alot and alot of money to impove life in america, but what about all the people over here that cannot afford health care, ect. Not to metntion the astronomical cost of war.

Bush aslo acted illegaly, undermining the United States congress, he used for money that was appropraited for the war in afganastain $80,000,000.00, 70 million of which to build an airport in kuwait a long time before saying ANYTHING about weapons of mass destruction.
Its congress's job to make a budget its the presdients job to spend it, however he cannot decide to spend it on something new.

Another thing that bothers me is when we knew where osama bin ladin was with out a doubt, what did president bush do ? We sent in the northren alliance, the afganis to catch him. Bush was busy illegaly transfering money to build installations in kuwait, he must have ADD or something because he dident seem to care about bin ladin. (Which to me makes sence because if he would have caught bin ladin he couldnt continue simply war mongering. ) Why did he not send in the united states delta force or some other special forces unit, this is the most wanted man number one guy. Dosent the president owe it to you to send in the best to catch this guy ? Well he dident, when he had the chance.

Iraq Ties to Al Qaeda. The White House made this claim even though the CIA and FBI repeatedly told the Administration that there was no tie between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. They were mortal enemies " one secular, the other fundamentalist.

Saddam Hussein was a Threat to the United States. In fact, Saddam was a tottering dictator, with an antiquated, fractured army of low morale and with Kurdish enemies in Northern Iraq and Shiite adversaries in the South of Iraq. He did not even control the air space over most of Iraq.
Saddam Hussein was a Threat to his Neighbors: In fact, Iraq was surrounded by countries with far superior military forces. Turkey, Iran and Israel were all capable of obliterating any aggressive move by the Iraqi dictator.

The Liberation of the Iraqi People. There are brutal dictators throughout the world, many supported over the years by Washington, whose people need "liberation " from their leaders. This is not a persuasive argument since for Iraq, it's about oil. In fact, the occupation of Iraq by the United States is a magnet for increasing violence, anarchy and insurrection.

Just how soon till we have another war, there are plenty of people we can goto war with, who next ? Korea ? How soon until a draft? This moment I estimate around 111 Billion dallors taken away from america to use in this war, this will be definitly going to the national debt. ( http://costofwar.com/ )
Lets also take a look at the United States Citizen's who've lost their life in Iraq. 722 Citizens. Bush declared on 5/1/03 (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/bush.carrier.landing/) That the mission was accomplished. Sence then 535 Citizens have died as a result. (http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html)

"All public policy should revolve around the principle that individuals are responsible for what they say and do."
-- George W. Bush, 1994.

Let see mister bush be held accountable for his Illegal actions. I would also like to see every american step up and stop being dominated by this so called "leader" who is using fear against his people. Dose terrorism scare you ? Remeber when bush said if you are not with his war on terrorism you are a terrorist ? It sounds to me as if bush is the terrorist using fear propaganda against his own pepople. We have an illegal camp in cuba where people are held against their will with out legal representation or formal charges held against them. They have no chance of getting out.

Its time for americans to care for america, rather then let their great country be squanderd by a horrible leader like bush. Try looking at the facts everyone.

[AppleTurtle]

holy crap kestrel, you did your h/w. very nice.

so what im seeing is that america was based on revolution for the peoples rights, our leaders forgot that they arnt the leaders, only the represesentitives, whoes up for a 2nd revolutionary war. the people vs the leaders. straight up democracy, the people vote on every single issue.

damn streight

[KesTrel]

holy crap kestrel, you did your h/w. very nice.

so what im seeing is that america was based on revolution for the peoples rights, our leaders forgot that they arnt the leaders, only the represesentitives, whoes up for a 2nd revolutionary war. the people vs the leaders. straight up democracy, the people vote on every single issue.

damn streightToday leaders are elected upon affiliation to parties. Parties are affilated with not only ideals, but coperations and many other intrest.

Why dont we try to pick a good leader for once. Why dont we pick somone based upon their integreity ect. There are better canidates then Mr. Bush. I am not a big fan of kerry, he dosent take a stand on certin issues I'de like him to step up on.

There is no need for a revolution, however there is a need for people not to advocate their power as american citizens. I love bush, I like his champain clothing thats made in burma. Did you know that bush himself placed an embargo on burma because of poor human rights treatment towards women (think rape) ? It dosent mater though its time for the election !

We limit ourselfs to two choices bascially. Its patheticonly two choices. Americas built on choices, its time to pick something else in my opinion.

Appleturtle, thanks for your kind words. I try to stay on top of things. Its sad to see a nation of individual people being used and abused, mis led by their own will. A nation of mostly peaceful people that can be led into initiating war, ect. Its all about choices here in life, we just need to make the choice to pick leaders based upon some other things. Most people adont' care enough to know whats really happening. I could go on, but its a important issue, I think. What do you think ?

[AppleTurtle]

based on what you said, kestrel, one of 2 things need to happen,

a complete people vote on a reform of the govt. i mean a COMPLETE reform, burn the declaration of idependence sorta thing.

or the democrats and republicans can all not participate in an election for 1 year if not indefinatly.

[MnementhDedderath]

No, America does need some form of revolution. The party system is too entrenched be be removed through election. Then on top of that american citizens haven't yet elected a president, since the country was founded.

I'm not saying here take up arms and begin , civil war won't solve it, the US military is much too strong for that, but a revolution is needed. Some form of strong change needs to come about in this country, how I don't know what I could probably think about it and list a few things that need to be changed, the top of which list being:

1. Destruction of party politics by any means necissary.
2. Popular vote for president.

Party politics is responsible for too much damage to our country. Politicians destroy each other come election time, no matter if what's on the table is actually needed to solve something in the country or not. This wastes too much money. Then the electoral college is just more crap, at the time it was the only way to manage the election of such a large country, with such slow means of communications; now however, we have computer networks and fiberoptics to handle this sort of thing. Computers could remove the errors of hand counting election results (which is still quite prevelent in the worlds most advanced nation. think about that we still use PUNCH cards to handle the most important day in american government. Not that for presidents it makes any difference)

and if they want to have a hand recount, then the computer could print out a card that has an encryption key on it that must be checked before the vote can be tallied. Not some pansy little 128 bit key, but one of the 512 bit keys that NSA is developing. Thus making the key nearly uncrackable. This key could also be used for transfering the votes electronically.

Now I'm meandering and I've lost sight of the original point...oh yeah, this country needs to change, and it's not going to come from within the system, some form of force must come from outside and cause us to see the error of how it's done now. (did you know that the writing of the us budget hasn't started at $0 for nearly 80 years? When you start budgeting for a company or your own house do you sit down and say, ok I spent $200 last week so we'll start with $200 this week and add to it, then the next week you sit down and say ok I spend $400 last week so $400 is where I'll start this week. If you do then you are in debt up to your nostrils, but this is how it's done in the government, and the last time they balanced the budget, they haggled and haggled and haggled over programs that aren't even used anymore, but the money is still spent, some of those programs were gotten rid of, and not too many people heard about it because no one really knew that they exsisted.)

[singo]

If politicians cared about doing the right thing they would not have gone into politics

But to be honest i supported (and still do) the war in iraq, and i dont know if anyone has thought of this but in the months bush and blair took trying to convinced the (Bribed by saddam) UN to go to war saddam might just have had time to sell his WMD's to someone else?

I have checked several sources with regard to the bribary UN thing and it does seem that various anti war people were recieving vouchers to buy lots of oil which were then sold on for money.
which really does confirm my view that the UN is a corrupt buerocratic (is that spelt right?) waste of space.

[KesTrel]

I do agree that the UN is a waste of space. You cant accomplish anything.

[KesTrel]

based on what you said, kestrel, one of 2 things need to happen,

a complete people vote on a reform of the govt. i mean a COMPLETE reform, burn the declaration of idependence sorta thing.

or the democrats and republicans can all not participate in an election for 1 year if not indefinatly. You do know that the Decleration of Independece just declares the US a free country in the eyes of the founding patriots.

The constitution is the law of the land. Before the constition was the Articles of confederation which was replaced with the constition.

I am a independent. I dont like partys.

[AppleTurtle]

ok, thare are problems w/ the gov't, we all know that. but what would you change that would solve problems, not just one thing, but as many things as you could? what things could not be solved? how would you go about changing what you could? would the people like it?

AT

[KesTrel]

There is only a problem if the majority of americans recgonize a problem and then use intelligence.

Intelligence is the ability to figure things out. If one day, everyone stayed at home turned off the power and refused by their will to not do much of anything. The unity would be un ignorable. The money so sacred to so many people would suffer so much, they would have no choice but to ahear to the unity.

Notice this is done with out violence. However, there is no problem, if no one recgonizes it.

[Sambo83]

Yeah I agree but I don't want Bush I office in 2004. It was his fault that he wanted to fight a war with the government of Iraq. Bush only wanted to fight the war in Iraq because of personal reasons. He even knew there weren't WMDs. He lied on purpose.
Tell me how he "lied on purpose." That's what you guys on the far left do. You make these assertions with no evidence. If Bush "lied on purpose" then Bill Clinton would have had to lie, Kofi Annon, Hans Blix, Colin Powell, et al are all lairs then, since every last one of them said that we believe Iraq to have WMD. Turns out we were wrong, or something happened to them, but there was clearly no lie. Furthermore, it's fairly obvious that Saddam did have weapons of mass destruction, considering he used them on his own people.

(Which to me makes sence because if he would have caught bin ladin he couldnt continue simply war mongering. )
Oh, but I'm sure Bill Clinton wasn't war mongering in Samalia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, or Serbia? In fact, in Serbia, the USA under Clinton was fighting with the terrorists.

He did not even control the air space over most of Iraq.
LoL... yeah.. he didn't control it because he wasn't allowed to as mandated by the Gulf War Cease Fire Agreement, which he violated no less than 17 times. US planes constantly patrol the no fly zones, so how exactly you expect him to control the air space is beyond me.

We have an illegal camp in cuba where people are held against their will with out legal representation or formal charges held against them. They have no chance of getting out.
These people are prisoners of war. The camp might be illegal in the KesTrel Fantasy World TM, however in the real world, the UN has approved the conditions in the "camp." Why we even allowed them to look at it is beyond me. We even give the Islama-fascist terrorists a copy of the koran, and allow them to pray 5 times a day. They will be released when the War on Terror is over, as per the Geneva Convention.

holy crap kestrel, you did your h/w. very nice.
Actually he just posed a bunch of far left-wing fringe bullshit that has long been debunked.

the people vote on every single issue.

damn streight
The fact that you are not deciding the fate of my country pleases me very much. The founders intended for the people to choose their representativs, thus allowing the greater good to be served rather than the not so productive whims of a fickle people. If you don't like it, then vote with your feet, and get the fuck out. I'm sure your buddy Fidel Castro will take you in.

Then on top of that american citizens haven't yet elected a president, since the country was founded.
Which is exactly as the founders intended. No one is forcing you to live her. You're free to leave if you don't like the Constitution.

Then the electoral college is just more crap, at the time it was the only way to manage the election of such a large country, with such slow means of communications;
"At the time" people did not vote for electors who were affiliated with a certain candidate. "At the time" the electors used to gather around and debate as to who the best president would be. That is how the founders intended the country to be run. It had absolutely nothing to do with logistics.

[xjudicator]

Sambo83, I'd have to agree with you on your takes on these issues. It seems you have this thread under control...One thing, why are you raggin' on Appleturtle and Kestrel so much? To me, I thought Kestrel had a very good argument..as for Appleturtle..."Damn straight!" ha ha!

[RelinaIonna]

I'd ratehr have 4 more years of Bush jokes than Jhon Carey. Give me another Clinton and then we'll talk. Wooh, go Conspriracists, go!

[Battlecruiser]

(OH my god... I had a huge post and then my computer froze. I am too lazy to type up the whole thing again) Umm it is not Jhon Carey, it is John Kerry. I will post more about this topic later. I am too tired now.

[RelinaIonna]

I'll spell it however the @#$%! I want. Jean Karie

[Battlecruiser]

Ok... Guess people have no more respect and more ignorance. Anyway it doesn't matter what you say. I mean your from Canada. You can't make any difference in an American election.

[KesTrel]

These people are prisoners of war. The camp might be illegal in the KesTrel Fantasy World TM, however in the real world, the UN has approved the conditions in the "camp." Why we even allowed them to look at it is beyond me. We even give the Islama-fascist terrorists a copy of the koran, and allow them to pray 5 times a day. They will be released when the War on Terror is over, as per the Geneva Convention.


What country is the "war on terror"
So are the prisioners responsible to afganaistan ? Please do explain.

[RelinaIonna]

Geeze, I'm just messing around. I don't want anything to do with damn yankee politics.

[Whiteknight]

/me high fives RI

The founders intended for the people to choose their representativs, thus allowing the greater good to be served rather than the not so productive whims of a fickle people.

That would mean you would like the democracy that Canada has right now. In the US, there are only two candidates to chose from, therefore your choices are very limited. Two people is not really a choice, it's a small desicion, but if there are several large parties from both sides of the spectruum, then your choice is wider and the people can vote for people they might actually want.


These people are prisoners of war. The camp might be illegal in the KesTrel Fantasy World TM, however in the real world, the UN has approved the conditions in the "camp." Why we even allowed them to look at it is beyond me. We even give the Islama-fascist terrorists a copy of the koran, and allow them to pray 5 times a day. They will be released when the War on Terror is over, as per the Geneva Convention.

Where is the proof that they are being treated like that? Also, how do you know for sure that they will be released? The US might continue the war on terrorism by focusing it's sights on other targets and might not give up the POWs. They also might make accusations against the POWs, allowing the US to keep the POWs.

[xjudicator]

Battlecruiser, stop raggin' on RI. This is an internet forum, not a perfectionist's academy! And besides I bet you can't spell perfect either...but that's beside the point. Anyway Whitenight, if the US says they will release the POWs they probably will. It'll just take longer than they said. And the war on terror most likely will go on much longer than Bush is in office, Terrorism will only get worse just like mankinds ethics...but that's another story. Kestrel, the war on terror is in any country we pledge to fight it.

I don't want anything to do with damn yankee politics!RI...are you a confederate

[RelinaIonna]

Be Proud North America, Be Proud!!


http://members.shaw.ca/sgsartwork/images/martin.jpghttp://members.shaw.ca/sgsartwork/images/pretzel.jpg

[RelinaIonna]

RI...are you a confederateActually I'm Candaian. Yankee is a slightly derogatory term for all Americans. Atleast in Canda. Its like calling a Candadian a Canuck, perhaps stereotypical is a better word than derogatory. Stemign actual from the overspill of American pop culture. Yosimite Sam calls some one a Yankee, we learn that when were little and then learn its relating to americans. The actual American Civil war isn't taught atleast around here till high school. But if I offened anyone I apologize.

[Battlecruiser]

Haha nice picture Relinna. I have seen those before though but they are still funny.

[HackingVictim]

RI stop double posting and stick a cork in it

[ChaosZon]

*sigh*

Political cartoons have no place in a discussion. They have as much value as a piece of gum stuck to your shoe.

Do you realize that you're president is spending more money in iraq then in the USA. He said he was not into nation building, apparently he was talking about america. He spending alot and alot of money to impove life in america, but what about all the people over here that cannot afford health care, ect. Not to metntion the astronomical cost of war.

...U.S. government yearly budget = something like 2, 3 trillion dollars

Cost of Operations in Iraq and Afghanistan = 192 billion dollars so far

So, explain again how he's spending more money in Iraq than the United States?

Bush aslo acted illegaly, undermining the United States congress, he used for money that was appropraited for the war in afganastain $80,000,000.00, 70 million of which to build an airport in kuwait a long time before saying ANYTHING about weapons of mass destruction. Its congress's job to make a budget its the presdients job to spend it, however he cannot decide to spend it on something new.

Source?

Either way, it's immaterial. The budget for Afghanistan is far more than 80 million dollars.

Another thing that bothers me is when we knew where osama bin ladin was with out a doubt, what did president bush do ? We sent in the northren alliance, the afganis to catch him. Bush was busy illegaly transfering money to build installations in kuwait, he must have ADD or something because he dident seem to care about bin ladin. (Which to me makes sence because if he would have caught bin ladin he couldnt continue simply war mongering. ) Why did he not send in the united states delta force or some other special forces unit, this is the most wanted man number one guy. Dosent the president owe it to you to send in the best to catch this guy ? Well he dident, when he had the chance.

President Clinton refused Osama Bin Laden when the Sudan told us "We can have this guy in CIA custody in 48 hours, please, we don't want him in the Sudan anymore."

But once again, you seem unclear as to the chain of command. The President has little to no power over military tactics and strategy. He only has power over broad strategy; telling the military where to go. How to get there and how to achieve the objectives given to them is entirely up to the military.

It was decided by the military and the CIA, not President Bush, that insertion of American forces in Tora Bora was unnecessary and that the Northern Alliance had the situation well in hand. And it's also not confirmed that Bin Laden was "trapped" and managed to sneak out, and there's also no guarantee that we would have caught him anyway even if we had sent in a few hundred real-life equivalents of Solid Snake either.

Iraq Ties to Al Qaeda. The White House made this claim even though the CIA and FBI repeatedly told the Administration that there was no tie between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. They were mortal enemies " one secular, the other fundamentalist.

Which is why terrorists trained, financed, and supplied in Iraq were planning a chemical attack on Amman that could have killed 20,000 people.

Saddam Hussein was a Threat to the United States. In fact, Saddam was a tottering dictator, with an antiquated, fractured army of low morale and with Kurdish enemies in Northern Iraq and Shiite adversaries in the South of Iraq. He did not even control the air space over most of Iraq. Saddam Hussein was a Threat to his Neighbors: In fact, Iraq was surrounded by countries with far superior military forces. Turkey, Iran and Israel were all capable of obliterating any aggressive move by the Iraqi dictator.

Anyone in control of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of soldiers like Saddam Hussein is a threat to the United States of America.

The Liberation of the Iraqi People. There are brutal dictators throughout the world, many supported over the years by Washington, whose people need "liberation " from their leaders. This is not a persuasive argument since for Iraq, it's about oil. In fact, the occupation of Iraq by the United States is a magnet for increasing violence, anarchy and insurrection.

Oh, for once, back up what you say. This ridiculous "there are other dictatorships" argument has been debunked numerous times. "It was all about the oil" has never been a serious argument, and saying that the occupation is a magnet for violence, anarchy and insurrection is incredibly ignorant of the fact that 99.9% of the country is proceeding along fine.

Just how soon till we have another war, there are plenty of people we can goto war with, who next ? Korea ? How soon until a draft? This moment I estimate around 111 Billion dallors taken away from america to use in this war, this will be definitly going to the national debt.

Clearly you don't understand how the national debt works.

Lets also take a look at the United States Citizen's who've lost their life in Iraq. 722 Citizens. Bush declared on 5/1/03 (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS...arrier.landing/) That the mission was accomplished. Sence then 535 Citizens have died as a result. (http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html)

Unfortunately, BUSH NEVER SAID THAT. The banner behind him was set up ENTIRELY by the crew of the aircraft carrier. The only connection Bush has is that the crew asked the White House for help in setting the banner up. The banner referred to the SHIP; it was going home. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with Iraq.

Let see mister bush be held accountable for his Illegal actions. I would also like to see every american step up and stop being dominated by this so called "leader" who is using fear against his people. Dose terrorism scare you ? Remeber when bush said if you are not with his war on terrorism you are a terrorist ? It sounds to me as if bush is the terrorist using fear propaganda against his own pepople. We have an illegal camp in cuba where people are held against their will with out legal representation or formal charges held against them. They have no chance of getting out.

ROFL

Bush: "You are with us or you are against us" turns into "You are with us or you're a terrorist?"

You do like making up quotes, don't you?

Unfortunately for you once more, the detainee camp at Guantanamo Bay is fully legal under the Geneva Convention, as is the holding of the detainees. They were not members of a legally recognized fighting force. They are francs-tireurs. Technically, it would be legal for us to put them up against a wall and shoot them.

Its time for americans to care for america, rather then let their great country be squanderd by a horrible leader like bush. Try looking at the facts everyone.

Sadly, Bush is one of the finest leaders this country has had. Compared with the likes of Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Carter, Hoover, Grant, Buchanan, Clinton and others, he is head and shoulders above the pack.

I highly suggest you try looking at the facts.

[Battlecruiser]

U.S. government yearly budget = something like 2, 3 trillion dollars

Cost of Operations in Iraq and Afghanistan = 192 billion dollars so far

So, explain again how he's spending more money in Iraq than the United States?

Are you saying 192 billion is nothing? Can you even realize how much that is? That is 1/13 of the WHOLE Budget assuming that the budget is 2.5 trillion dollars. Money that can be used on the American people is being used for Iraqis.

[ChaosZon]

Are you saying 192 billion is nothing? Can you even realize how much that is? That is 1/13 of the WHOLE Budget assuming that the budget is 2.5 trillion dollars. Money that can be used on the American people is being used for Iraqis.

Did I say 192 billion is nothing?

No.

What I said was he lied. Which he did.

[Battlecruiser]

Did I say 192 billion is nothing? No.

I know you never said it, which is why I asked "Are you saying 192 billion is nothing?". If I already knew it I wouldn't have asked, would I?

[Whiteknight]

RI stop double posting and stick a cork in it
Don't get me started on you, Hacking, you wouldn't like it.

Sadly, Bush is one of the finest leaders this country has had. Compared with the likes of Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Carter, Hoover, Grant, Buchanan, Clinton and others, he is head and shoulders above the pack.

I have to disagree with that, for sure. How was Clinton a bad president? The worst thing he ever did was have some sexual escapades, but he still ran the country fairly fine. Plus he never went off to a war that was not popular.

Just how soon till we have another war, there are plenty of people we can goto war with, who next ? Korea ? How soon until a draft? This moment I estimate around 111 Billion dallors taken away from america to use in this war, this will be definitly going to the national debt.
War almost always increases profit. Production of goods goes up to support the war, and this creates more jobs, which creates income for more people, who will buy more things. This creates more jobs, more production, etc.

That is, unless it is an unpopular war, in which it will not work as well.

[ChaosZon]

I have to disagree with that, for sure. How was Clinton a bad president? The worst thing he ever did was have some sexual escapades, but he still ran the country fairly fine. Plus he never went off to a war that was not popular.

Not popular?

Let's not place our own opinions as that of the American people's.

But that's irrelevant.

Yeah, Bill Clinton didn't send this country off to war. And we paid the check on September 11th, 2001. So I wouldn't be particularly proud of him.