View Full Version : Death Star -vs- U.S.S. Enterprise (Grudge Match)
World Wide Web Fights presents
WWWF GRUDGE MATCH
The Setting
It has come to our attention that there apparently was (and possibly still is) a debate over which would win the machino-et-machino match-up: Death Star vs. Enterprise. Newsgroup chatter be damned!! Let's decide this for real, folks! Steve, Enterprise, led by Kirk and Co. (of course) up against Brian, the Death Star (with Darth Vader, no Emperor) - who controls the universe at battle's end?
Enterprise
vs.
The Death Star
The Commentary
STEVE: You're joking, right? How could an argument as one-sided as this ever linger over the (supposedly) intelligent memebers of the internet community? I'm so shocked I don't even know where to begin... I guess I'll start off with the obvious. The death star can pulverize a PLANET! Even with Scotty "givin' her all she's got," there's no way the Enterprise could withstand even one hit by that thing. And that's just the main gun. There are also thousands of smaller surface weapons, each of which would cause Kirk & Co. to go flying over the bridge railing if they hit the Enterprise. And of course, hitting the Enterprise wouldn't be difficult at all considering it's as manuverable as an ocean liner. Also, did I mention Tie-fighters? Swarms of them would descend on the Enterprise and blast it into smithereens. Also, did I mention the tractor beam? It would grab onto the Enterprise and hold it still while the main gun is warmed up...
Ok, now let's look at what the Enterprise can do. A) Shoot it with phasers or a photon torpedo. Oh no! You've ruined the new paint job on my Death Star! The Death Star is so huge, that the Enterprise could blast at it all day and still not do anything significant to it. B) Run away. Yes, they could do that. They better do that if they want to live.
BRIAN: Oh, sure, Steve, it's really that obvious. You're forgetting the one asset the Enterprise has that the Death Star does not: transporters. Once Kirk, Spock, Bones, Uhura, and that nameless guy with the red shirt beam aboard, the Death Star will have a major permanent power outage and the Enterprise crew will walk away with only one casualty. All they have to do is get into transporter range. That is, get past the mighty planet disintegrater gun and the swarms of tie-fighters and it's cake. O.K., say the disintegrater gun is mis-firing that day, and all they have to do is get past the tie-fighters. The Enterprise. The ship that almost loses to 3 klingon warships must get past 100 tie-fighters. The ship that whenever it gets in trouble tries to open a hailing frequency. O.K., maybe not.
HA! But what you're really forgetting is that the Death Star, as shown in Episode IV, has a weak spot: All the Enterprise has to do is get close enough to fire a photon torpedo down that hole the size of a whomp-rat and the Death Star goes kablooie. So once the Enterprise gets close enough-...oh, yeah, I've already been over this. I don't think the Enterprise would even fit in those canyons on the surface anyway. O.K.: Scotty and Spock equip the Galileo shuttle craft with shields and photon torpedos. Maybe not.
You're right, Steve. Death Star in 2.3 seconds.
STEVE: Indeed, things would have to be going bad for the Death Star to succumb to the Enterprise. Here's a possible scenario under which it might happen: 1) All the Tie fighters had to be recalled due to unsafe plasma coils. 2) The night before the attack, all the weapons officers were up late celebrating "Death Star Day" and are hung over. 3) The garbage monster found it's way into a maintenance shaft and shorted out the transformers which power the main gun. 4) The Enterprise sling-shots around the sun, goes forward in time, gets the Genesis device, sling-shots back, and fires it on the Death Star. I think if these 4 improbable events occurred simultaneously, the Enterprise might stand a chance. Otherwise, forget it!
BRIAN: O.K., with all those concessions, the Enterprise could get close enough and would have a weapon powerful enough to destroy the Death Star considering all the arguments we have raised. But there's one other thing we haven't considered. What about the Force, Steve?
STEVE: Aw, shit. I forgot about the Force. Before Kirk can give the order to fire, Vader will have him two feet off the ground and choking to death. Death Star in 2.3 seconds.
One last point. What's going to win: Something called "The Enterprise" or something called "The Death Star?" The name says it all.
BRIAN: You know, Steve, after the past two weeks, that Godzilla/Bambi thing is looking more and more reasonable.
From: http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ds-enterprise.shtml
Ok.
That was strange.
My .02: ToS sucks. Bring in the Defiant. Or hell, even voyager =/
lol funny essay thing though
-Neo
GrassDragon
05-06-2006, 4:06 PM
XD Very funny.
Maybe if the Voyager had the Borg shielding like in the last episode, it could withstand attacks from tie-fighters to get close enough to do real damage.
B.A.Baracus
05-06-2006, 4:09 PM
Please, the Enterprise couldnt damage the Death Star, and the Death Star couldnt hope to catch the Enterprise.
kongurous
05-06-2006, 4:09 PM
The Empire would kick the Federation's ass.
The Empire would kick the Federation's ass.
Bullshit.
Empire was defeated by fucking ewoks.
-Neo
kongurous
05-06-2006, 4:13 PM
Bullshit.
Empire was defeated by fucking ewoks.
-Neo
Wrong. The Empire was defeated in a well-planned ambush by a highly trained force of Rebel soldiers and Ewoks. Besides, it was a jungle moon and the Empire wasn't properly equipped to deal with it. The Rebellion was, and the Empire would rip the Federation ships to pieces.
Wrong. The Empire was defeated in a well-planned ambush by a highly trained force of Rebel soldiers and Ewoks. Besides, it was a jungle moon and the Empire was properly equipped to deal with it. The Rebellion was, and the Empire would rip the Federation ships to pieces.
Excuses?
Rip federation ships to pieces? I really doubt that. "omg lasers~!"
-Neo
GrassDragon
05-06-2006, 4:15 PM
That was one planet! I seem to remember the Empire killing tons of Jedi at the same time as this minor Ewok battle plan was failing. Yoda even got a headache.
B.A.Baracus
05-06-2006, 4:16 PM
First, Ewoks are well trained warriors, and it was a well planned ambush.
Second, the Federation are pussies, the Death Star would be charging up its main weapon aimed at Fed. HQ and they would be like "cant we solve this peacefuly?Please?"
Excuses?
Rip federation ships to pieces? I really doubt that. "omg lasers~!"
-Neo
Star Destroyer VS. Federation ship, please.:cool:
First, Ewoks are well trained warriors, and it was a well planned ambush.
Second, the Federation aressies, the Death Star would be charging up its main weapon aimed at Fed. HQ and they would be like "cant we solve this peacefuly?Please?"
Star Destroyer VS. Federation ship, please.:cool:
Just because the federation prefers peace doesn't mean they won't fight (borg, dominion, romulan, etc... all the other wars).
EDIT: Its not my fault the jedi are weaklings. So what if a bunch of them got slaughtered? Doesn't stop the fact that ewoks were kicking the empires ass.
-Neo
GrassDragon
05-06-2006, 4:24 PM
The Ewok thing was a freak accident. Killing hundreds of Jedi was not.
The Ewok thing was a freak accident. Killing hundreds of Jedi was not.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/ep3_tot3.gif
Freak Accidents -- its an excuse.
-Neo
The_Maker
05-06-2006, 4:34 PM
Death Star (or any other major Empire vessel for that matter)> Enterprise (or any other Federation ship)
Besides, can Captain Kirk use the force? :P
Death Star (or any other major Empire vessel for that matter)> Enterprise (or any other Federation ship)
Besides, can Captain Kirk use the force? :P
Can you use the force on a ship miles away from you? On an individual on that ship, through a layout of the ship that you don't know?
I mean I would assume that to use the force you'd have to at least have some kind of line-of-sight going on (assuming this from the SW movies -- vader usually looks at his choking victim while doing it... right?)
The force doesn't really mean much when your fighting in space (otherwise, how would the rebellion every be able to attack vader's ship at all?).
And fuck Kirk. The Original Series was just stupid :/
-Neo
GenocideAlive
05-06-2006, 4:56 PM
the Death Star couldnt hope to catch the Enterprise.
Gravity Well Interdictor SDs FTW.
Greyscale
05-06-2006, 5:08 PM
This is writtten with a StarTrek bias, but both sides get their asses kicked:
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalforeword.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap1.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap2.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap3.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap4.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap5.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap6.htm
At any rate.
This is a poor debate anyways, because it pits the empire, who according to SW timeline and stuff have been around for thousands and thousands of years against the Federation, which is set in like the 23rd or 24th century (depending on it being Kirk or Not).
But then thats brought up SW people always claim its a stupid arguement since if all fights were fair (read: this fed vs emp not being fair because of empire's longer time) then it would end up in a draw.
I would argue that if we are going to bring in the entirety of the Federation (disregarding Timeline constraints) then you can't say for sure that the empire would win -- regardless of 'so-called' better tech. Because the few glances of ships from the 29th century (from the federation) are inherently more superior then anything the federation currently has.
If you go by the last episode of Voyager as well, you can assume that tech "leaps" happen often in Trek, for the Admiral Janeway to come back in time only a few decades (assuming) to help voyager get through the Borg 'nexus' thing... Meh, point being: The borg have had a LOT longer time to have 'advanced' tech (although, they don't research, they simply take), in a few decades, janeway brings back specialized torpedo's that rip through security cubes, and shielding that protects Voyager -- primarily a science vessel -- from taking ANY damage from repeated attacks by the borg (who have, by all rights, much more advanced weapons and tech then the federation).
Well that was a big long ramble, not exactly sure what the point is.
At any rate, I also have a hard time even finding interest in this arguement, because of the fact that Lucas is still alive -- while Gene isn't. So many SW arguements refer to Gene's policy on canon and other stuff. Another thing is the fact that the Empire seems to have 'unbelievable' amounts of power for weapons and shields, and when compared directly to (the D for instance, since TNG seems to be the most used period for emp vs fed debates) the federation clearly is at a loss.
For instance, according to some star wars geek an "acclamator Troop Transport" has:
Light Guns with a power of "300 million GW"
Heavy guns with a power of "2.4 million megatons"
When compared to the D, with 3.6GW Phasers (assuming per emitter) and Photon Torpedos of only 64 Megatons its seems obvious that the Feds would lose.
If we compare shields; we see this: Shield heat dissipation: 70 trillion GW peak
For the D: Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak
Really, what the fuck? How can you argue when Star Wars have these really crazy amounts of power? 2.4 Million Megatons?
Seriously.
Besides the point that;
A) The Empire is a malevolent entity, had thousands of years to 'build up' (depending how you look at it) and is primarily geared towards war
b) The Federation is a coalition of 150 member worlds, spread over 8000 lightyears, devoted to Peace and Exploration.
Some SW efficinaodos will claim it would be a fair fight...
Ok, I just call bullshit on the whole thing.
To claim that the empire would crush the federation is assuming a lot, and besides that, how can you even argue when Star Wars ships are given incredible amounts of power? Amounts that seem almost impossible or impropable, against the Federation who's weapon power outputs or shields seem a bit more propable?
Meh. Besides any of this;
If by some crazy happenstance, a wormhole opened up a connection between the star wars universe and the star trek one then you would end up with the following problems:
The physics of these two different universes are very different, and not compatible; if a spaceship from the Federation travelled to the Star Wars universe, its impulse and warp drives (which wouldn't work in our universe either) would just sit there and make funny noises, and the same would be true of Empire ships coming into Federation space. Certainly the hyperpowerful beam weapons of the Empire rely on physical sources of energy imposible outside their universe, so they would be weaponless. The Force would probably not work in the Star Trek universe either.
Additionally the differences in physical constants between the two universes would create a region of instability or adjustment in the region of the wormhole, which might be dangerous enough to threaten the metric of both universes; so the 'Q' continuum entities or some other sensible advanced civilisation would be forced to come along and shut the portal down.
I think is sort of interesting little message about the whole thing.
Oh well. I sort of liked this sites take on it;
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html
And then theres this essay from a SW fan; which I drew info from earlier
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html
but it seems to be written more from a stance of "federation loses because they suck" more then anything.
Thought I would throw in a couple links XD
Meh besides any of this, there are other races in the Star Trek universe that would no doubt have stock in what happens in such a fight like this who may step in and intervene, or just outright stop them altogether.
I've always liked a few arguements that SW fans seem to be unable to answer with surety; like "Are transporters stopped by the Empire Ship's shielding?"
oh well.
-Neo
I would like to point out that the Death Star had a full armada of Star Destroyers with it... yeah, those big holes around the outside are docking bays for them... it also had at least one Super Star Destroyer, IE the Executor, Vaders ship...
But the Empire can and will kick the Federations ass... especially with these babies.
http://www.wolfsshipyard.mystarship.com/Drawings/SW/Imperium.gif
Yeah, I would love to see even Voyager go against them... DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would like to point out that the Death Star had a full armada of Star Destroyers with it... yeah, those big holes around the outside are docking bays for them... it also had at least one Super Star Destroyer, IE the Executor, Vaders ship...
But the Empire can and will kick the Federations ass... especially with these babies.
http://www.wolfsshipyard.mystarship.com/Drawings/SW/Imperium.gif
Yeah, I would love to see even Voyager go against them... DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hard for them to even destroy voyager if their fire doesn't even effect her.
Is that even a real canon ship? ie: one from the movies?
-Neo
All those ships, even the large one that takes up the entire screen, are SW created units. They appear in the comics, books, as well as the movies. So yeah, they real. The Imperium was in one comic, it basicly replaced the DS, the tip of it has the same cannon that the DS used, but it also has faster speed and more weapons... kiss Voyagers ass, and the rest of the Federation good bye.
All those ships, even the large one that takes up the entire screen, are SW created units. They appear in the comics, books, as well as the movies. So yeah, they real. The Imperium was in one comic, it basicly replaced the DS, the tip of it has the same cannon that the DS used, but it also has faster speed and more weapons... kiss Voyagers ass, and the rest of the Federation good bye.
Sorry then, comic and/or book things don't count.
I'm talking about on screen, not books/comics. If I were, then ST Universe would have a lot more as well. The 'expanded universes' through books/comics aren't really fair (either for SW or ST) in a 'vs' competition thingy :/
Technically speaking, whats stopping a ST Ship from simply beaming abourd a tri-cobalt device (or similar high-yield st explosive) into these ships reactors? It's never really been established if the SW shields would stop a ST Transporter "Beam".
Then what about cloaked ships? If these ships give off no emmissions, then couldn't they do fast hit and runs on empire ships?
o.O Power isn't always everything!
-Neo
GrassDragon
05-06-2006, 6:13 PM
So yeah, they real.
Oh the irony.
Then I would like to point out that the whole armada thing, is true to the movies then. The DS kept a full complement of Star Destroyers, both Victory class as well as Imperial class, at it’s disposal. And most fleets kept a Super Star Destroyer at hand. Then \ add in all the Tie Fighters, Tie Bombers, Tie Interceptors, turbo lasers, Ion cannons, as well as Proton Torpedoes of their own… Enterprise is screwed if it comes near the DS and starts scratching the paint.
Kirk… “Scotty… what… in… the hell… is… that thing… that… I’m looking… at… right now?”
Scotty “I don know capin, but we’re fucked none the less sir.”
Vader “Fire all lasers. Destroy that ancient hunk of junk and turn it into space debris.”
Then I would like to point out that the whole armada thing, is true to the movies then. The DS kept a full complement of Star Destroyers, both Victory class as well as Imperial class, at it’s disposal. And most fleets kept a Super Star Destroyer at hand. Then \ add in all the Tie Fighters, Tie Bombers, Tie Interceptors, turbo lasers, Ion cannons, as well as Proton Torpedoes of their own… Enterprise is screwed if it comes near the DS and starts scratching the paint.
Kirk… “Scotty… what… in… the hell… is… that thing… that… I’m looking… at… right now?”
Scotty “I don know capin, but we’re fucked none the less sir.”
Vader “Fire all lasers. Destroy that ancient hunk of junk and turn it into space debris.”
But I'm not talking about TOS though (kirk sucks t.t).
It was revealed in a few episodes that lasers would have no effect on the enterprise (d) so I don't know why they'd be worried about a bunch of lasers, regardless of their source (tie fighter or heavy destroyer).
-Neo
kongurous
05-06-2006, 6:43 PM
Snot, there were only 21 SSDs built, compared to the hundreds of fleets of Star Destroyers.
The_Maker
05-06-2006, 7:14 PM
Meh, this is a never ending online cliche debate. Its like pirates and ninjas... no one side will ever win :/
I quit.
Spartan-II
05-06-2006, 7:15 PM
Guys, let it be.
/quit
Holy crap, I expected this to garner a bit of discussion, but this is downright hilarious!
ScottieIWU
05-06-2006, 7:59 PM
I think that the enterprise vs. the death star would last longer than we're giving credit. The Death Star's superlaser was only fired on ships that were relatively stationary, and considering that it has to be positioned before firing, then it takes about 30 seconds to fire means that by time that laser had been shot off, the Enterprise would be far, far away.
Also, there's very little idea of how weaponry would match up against between the two groups. While ST did explore how lasers were ineffective, I could imagine a fleet of SDs firing on the Enterprise might cause some damage.
It's important, too, that the Enterprise A was a joke, it is old, was refitted multiple times and was only very early in space travel the pinnacle of the Federation fleet.
I'd like to point out that there was far less combat explored in TOS than in DS9, TNG, or Voyager. However, from what you see of ST, most of the ships are rather large, but combat each other as if they were fighters. Almost any ST ship (except the Miranda-Class, the redshirt ship of ST) could outmaneuver most of the capital ships in SW, as usually those fought in a more head-on, face-to-face way. The other thing is that ST ships don't have fighters, wheras SW ships do. ST ships might have a hard time coping with the swarms of TIEs that the Death Star could unleash upon it.
It was pointed out that the DS could use it's surface batteries to take out the Enterprise, but the problem is that those surface batteries seem to have had limited range. The Death Star's surface turbolasers were only ever seen firing on ships near the surface, often ships flying over the surface of the death star.
What I'd like to see would be a Borg Fusion Cube or Tactical Fusion Cube vs. Death Star. That would be a fair fight.
GrassDragon
05-06-2006, 10:26 PM
Meh, this is a never ending online cliche debate. Its like pirates and ninjas... no one side will ever win :/
I quit.
This reminds me a lot of the Fake Debates we had a while back. We did pirates vs. ninjas (and pirates won by a long shot with the help of my bulletproof evidence and graphs) and also Pepsi vs. Coke. It was pretty fun :P
B.A.Baracus
05-06-2006, 10:28 PM
It depends, are they fighting on a pirate ship, or in an alley way or something.
O.o
dunchy
05-06-2006, 10:36 PM
http://img1.yoxio.com/img/236946.gif%5B
Just for the record though, it's viewed in both biases that Slave one has more firepower then the Enterprize E, much less a Star Destroyer.
Mtank
05-07-2006, 12:26 AM
This is a poor debate anyways, because it pits the empire, who according to SW timeline and stuff have been around for thousands and thousands of years against the Federation, which is set in like the 23rd or 24th century (depending on it being Kirk or Not).
Excuse me? The Empire's been around for thousands of years? How is that possible, considering that it starts early in Darth Vader's life and ends early in his son's?
The Republic has been around for a thousand years DUH!!!!... even longer if you will. The Empire is something more recent.
kongurous
05-07-2006, 12:32 AM
The Old Republic was around, in all its incarnations, for roughly 25,000 years. The Galactic Empire lasted a grand total of 38 years, from 19 BBY to 19 ABY. The Old Republic in the incarnation that was in Star Wars had lasted for 1,000 years due to the Ruusan Reformation.
I bow to your almighty knowledge oh mighty Darth Kongurous... teach me oh great one...:smirk:
Anyway... I'm sure an Ion cannon or a simple turbo laser will make short work of any Federation star ship. It's just a matter of comparisons... Empire has better guns for war, the Federation is only a police like force... not that better equipped... they die... simple as that...
And I love how we forget about the shields... the DS had more shield generators than any other ship in the Imperial fleet, and more than likely strong enough to deflect anything... seeing as how planet debris goes everywhere and endangers everything, they made them to survive asteroids for god sake.
The Enterprise would be wiped out from a single flipping space mine… puff. Death.
kongurous
05-07-2006, 12:48 AM
A turbolaser packs enough power to destroy a small asteroid from a few kilometers away. The Enterprise isn't a small asteroid, it's quite large. It also has shielding. One turbolaser doesn't shoot that fast either... a turbolaser v. Enterprise = probably the Enterprise would win, if a tad damaged.
Ion cannons do not cause any physical damage, they surge power units and makes them unusable. An ion cannon and a turbolaser would likely beat the Enterprise (or any ship, for that matter) but alone, they would likely lose. Besides, the Enterprise is probably too fast to be accurately targetted by just one turbolaser. One of the benefits of the Imperial-class Star Destroyer was its insane amount of turbolasers (about 500 light turbolasers, and about 70 heavy turbolasers in the Imperial-II version). Lots of firepower. A full broadside from an Imperial-class Star Destroyer is enough to raze a moon's hemisphere or a continent-sized landmass. Not in one volley, of course.
EDIT: The Imperium was not a real ship. The largest Imperial ship in official (read: books, comics, and not purely from fan fiction) canon is the Eclipse-class Star Dreadnaught.
Think about it. The Imperium is 260 kilometers long... about 161 miles. A regular Imperial-class took 3.88 billion credits to build, and it was 1 mile long. Multiply 3.88 by 161 and you get 624.68. 624.68 billion credits... tacked on to both Death Stars, a Galaxy Gun, a Sun Crusher, 21 Super Star Destroyers, hundreds of Imperial-class Star Destroyers, an Eclipse-class Star Dreadnaught, and numerous other incredibly expensive projects. Do you honestly think the Empire, as vast as it was, could have hoped to fund it all? Bear in mind 3.88 billion credits is the value of several planets annual income.
Wick3d
05-07-2006, 1:29 AM
This is writtten with a StarTrek bias, but both sides get their asses kicked:
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalforeword.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap1.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap2.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap3.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap4.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap5.htm
http://ditl.org/fiction/hedportalchap6.htmThat's actually very well written. I'm enjoying it atm, gonna put it in word an print it out.
I found the initial post very amusing. If it were not for the fact that Neo metioned, about the alternate universes, and the fact that the weapons outputs just DON'T mathc, I'd love to see a Constellation class vs a blocakde runner, then poss a Galaxy or Voyager vs a Voctory class SD.
I believe scientifically, ST stats are more realistic. the trick with Star Wars seems to be write a number then add lots of zeros on the end.
Also, I'm sure shuttles could mount a 360 degree phaser. This would help them support the Enterprise.
And they can also achieve higher speeds, i believe. Don't quote me on that though, since alot of my knowledge is from SFC, which 'isn't canon...'
Nickodemus
05-07-2006, 8:26 AM
The Empire would kick the Federation's ass.
CAN I GET AN AMEN MY BROTHER!!!!!!
++++++++
wow,, again i love to point out this flaw in peoples thinking.
Neo quotes here = " Voyager -- primarily a science vessel " WRONG!!
Why is it everyone thinks that damn ship was a science vessel. It may have had something switched in the show but even i know it wasn't that.
Intrepid Long Range Cruiser
Owner
United Federation of Planets
Class Heavy Combat Vessel
Availability Unlimited Deployment
In Service 2370
Out of Service n/a
Source Star Trek: Voyager
Author Tyrel Lohr
Last Updated October 15, 2003
Description:
A new class of advanced Federation scout ship, the Intrepid is a small frigate sized vessel designed for long term scouting missions. The testbed for numerous new, experimental technologies, the Intrepid Scout is part of Starfleet's shifting design ideology. Though a small combatant, the Intrepid Scout is able to hold its own against most enemies.
The voyager and any ship in that class was a scout ship. for going after that seperatist group. It wasn't meant for science. and hell it wasn't even very good for long range scouting, hence the trouble they kept having during the show. to me it was more of an attack craft, but certainly not a science vessel.
::rant over::
Also, ST does have fighters, they just don't use them much...
Kingscrab
05-07-2006, 11:59 AM
Dudes and dudettes... Kirk is invincible. You know it's true.
Straight up firepower, of course the Death Star would win, but face it, if Kirk is on the Enterprise he'd find a way to win. Game over.
Also, ST does have fighters, they just don't use them much...
Unless you are talking SFB, in which they are used alot. But i think Neao isn't counting stuff like that, and it is almost an alternate ST universe.
CAN I GET AN AMEN MY BROTHER!!!!!!
++++++++
wow,, again i love to point out this flaw in peoples thinking.
Neo quotes here = " Voyager -- primarily a science vessel " WRONG!!
Why is it everyone thinks that damn ship was a science vessel. It may have had something switched in the show but even i know it wasn't that.
Intrepid Long Range Cruiser
Owner
United Federation of Planets
Class Heavy Combat Vessel
Availability Unlimited Deployment
In Service 2370
Out of Service n/a
Source Star Trek: Voyager
Author Tyrel Lohr
Last Updated October 15, 2003
Description:
A new class of advanced Federation scout ship, the Intrepid is a small frigate sized vessel designed for long term scouting missions. The testbed for numerous new, experimental technologies, the Intrepid Scout is part of Starfleet's shifting design ideology. Though a small combatant, the Intrepid Scout is able to hold its own against most enemies.
The voyager and any ship in that class was a scout ship. for going after that seperatist group. It wasn't meant for science. and hell it wasn't even very good for long range scouting, hence the trouble they kept having during the show. to me it was more of an attack craft, but certainly not a science vessel.
Where did you get that information? You can't just google something and use the very first page as factual info.
...makes the Intrepid-class a premier ship of the line for Starfleet's scientific endeavours. (VOY: "Message in a Bottle")
Its not technically a science ship, so I was wrong in that aspect, its an "explorer" ship. But in either case, its not a "scout ship" or "war ship" or anything of the sort.
Its primary role was exploration and scientific stuff, otherwise, Janeway wouldn't have been commanding it.
-Neo
ScottieIWU
05-07-2006, 7:08 PM
Its primary role was exploration and scientific stuff, otherwise, Janeway wouldn't have been commanding it.I have to disagree. Most ships post-DS9 were ships meant for fighting the borg. That's why you see ships like the Intrepid-Class, Defiant-Class, Sovereign-Class, and also the Akira-Class in these series'. While the Voyager may have been in use as a science vessel with a commander whose purpose was such, it doesn't necessarily mean that was its primary use. The beauty of the Federation's fleet is that they can be used as weapons or for peaceful purposes.
I have to disagree. Most ships post-DS9 were ships meant for fighting the borg. That's why you see ships like the Intrepid-Class, Defiant-Class, Sovereign-Class, and also the Akira-Class in these series'. While the Voyager may have been in use as a science vessel with a commander whose purpose was such, it doesn't necessarily mean that was its primary use. The beauty of the Federation's fleet is that they can be used as weapons or for peaceful purposes.
I'm talking about Janeways past and events leading upto her commanding Voyager (ie: her rise through the ranks as a primarily science office who later moved to command).
Voyager was not made for war.
Only the Defiant class was made specifically to fight the borg, and the Prometheus was an experimental ship. The Sovereign class was an update to replace the failing Galaxy Class -- after all they seemed to lose a great many of these ships. It wasn't specifically created to fight the borg =/
Neither was voyager created specifically as a scoutship or a fighter.
Starfleet maybe the miltaristic arm of the federation, but they are still devoted to peace and exploration. Which is why the Intrepid class even came to be -- otherwise, why build a ship such as Voyager? Or even name it as such?
Its main goal was for scientific study and exploration, not war games and scounting.
-Neo
GenocideAlive
05-07-2006, 11:40 PM
I don't have a PhD in Star X Nerd, but I'll just have to say that the Federation would get asspounded like a 98lb tax-accountant nailed for evasion. Why this isn't a SD vs. the Voyager or something rather than the Death Star, I'll never know. But the Voyager is dubbed an "explorer ship" whereas the Death Star would be best described as a "bristling concentration of potent asswhoop". Hell, even a SSD would be better than the Death Star, although the outcome would be the same.
The best case scenario would feature the Voyager managing to get a transmission back to Federation HQ detailing the most coarse details of the Death Star before being completely humiliated and atomized. If I were Kirk I'd order my entire energy supply (including 50% lifesupport) into my shields, and force my entire crew to enter the transporter bay and enter the transports one-by-one in timed waves, hoping to telefrag something important in the Death Star. Because pretty much anything else would result in something like the hull of their ship being used to wipe the asshole of the Death Star.
Nickodemus
05-08-2006, 5:45 AM
Actually, the ugly starship WAS created to fight the Marquie. THAT was its original role. If you watched the pilot episode that is what they were doing when they got in that mess to begin with. So yes it was a type off attack craft seing as it was just produced when they handed it to that really bad commander that in my personal opinion sucked. It was not designed as a science vessel. Go back and watch the pilot episode again. Or call Protos_ Honor to the witness stand please.
~Q
And as for the whole Name thing. It's purpose was for the show. Because of the plot device. nothing more. Nope they made war ships and they actually looed good. (eeeeew, i'm saying stuff goood about star krap? I should have my head examined.)
Unless you are talking SFB, in which they are used alot. But i think Neao isn't counting stuff like that, and it is almost an alternate ST universe.
they used them in a next gen episode if i remember. The brat kid flew one on earth i think.
Well, I happy to see this sparked into one hell of a fight. But the original topic was DS vs U.S.S Enterprise(Kirk), not vs Voyager or other ships like that.
Death Star would win. It's a matter of technology, weapons, and defenses, and the DS has that all in one package. The Enterprise is just... meh. One or two lasers, a few photons, and sheilds.
DS had hundreds of lasers, it's onw built in fleet, and the strongest shields ever... a rebel fleet couldn't even break through those let alone a single ship past her prime.
Kingscrab
05-08-2006, 2:29 PM
Death Star would win. It's a matter of technology, weapons, and defenses, and the DS has that all in one package. The Enterprise is just... meh. One or two lasers, a few photons, and sheilds.
DS had hundreds of lasers, it's onw built in fleet, and the strongest shields ever... a rebel fleet couldn't even break through those let alone a single ship past her prime. Have you even seen Star Wars? ;)
Didn't one little X-Wing take it out? Your faith in all your technology will be your undoing!
Last I looked... a snub fighter (X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, B-Wing) is a hell of a lot smaller than the Enterprise, and far more manuverable. And yes, I happen to be a fan of the SW movies... except the last three which didn't live up to the others...
Kingscrab
05-08-2006, 3:24 PM
Last I looked... a snub fighter (X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, B-Wing) is a hell of a lot smaller than the Enterprise, and far more manuverable. Have you learned nothing? Size matters not!
The point is... the DS has weaknesses and can be beaten by a much smaller vessel. It's all about the hero pilot, baby! Throw some Kirk factor into the mix and it's adios bad guys! :D
Kirk is negated by the Vader factor man. Sorry. But both would be going at it... so HA!!!
Kingscrab
05-08-2006, 9:53 PM
Kirk is negated by the Vader factor man. Sorry. But both would be going at it... so HA!!! How do you figure? The DS was vaporized by a whiney little bitch on Vader's watch. Kirk would house him. :rolleyes:
DarkArchon98
05-08-2006, 10:49 PM
T.O.S. Star Trek is classic!
Couple of major photon torpedo strikes to that sitting-duck Death Star in a few choice locations and it would be fireworks time!
Actually, the ugly starship WAS created to fight the Marquie. THAT was its original role. If you watched the pilot episode that is what they were doing when they got in that mess to begin with. So yes it was a type off attack craft seing as it was just produced when they handed it to that really bad commander that in my personal opinion sucked. It was not designed as a science vessel. Go back and watch the pilot episode again. Or call Protos_ Honor to the witness stand please..
I would suggest that you go back and watch the pilot.
That was a mission that Janeway was given. They do not BUILD ONE STARSHIP for ONE MISSION.
The pilot episode happens because Janeway sent her security chief (read: Tuvok) to infiltrate the Maquis. He stopped responding (ie: reporting in) and starfleet had reason to belief that the Maquis ship was actually lost (or destroyed).
Thus Voyager's mission was to get through the Badlands and search for Chokatay's ship, and Tuvok and/or acertain their status.
Voyager was not made to fight the Maquis.
And as for the whole Name thing. It's purpose was for the show. Because of the plot device. nothing more. Nope they made war ships and they actually looed good. (eeeeew, i'm saying stuff goood about star krap? I should have my head examined.)
Yeah. The empire is warlike, Starfleet is dedicated to exploration. You may like Star Wars, but I am an avid Star Trek fan. If your going to contradict me, at least make sure to have correct information (ie: Kong). Don't spout off half-truths and fanboyism bull and treat it as fact.
The original Enterprise (from Kirk's series) used Phasers. Its your Star Wars ships that use "lasers". At least get the terminlogy right (not to mention the fact that the 'science' behind both weapons are different, not to mention shielding -- whos to say that the federation shields would stop anything from star wars, or vice versa, whos to say that the star war's ship's shields would stop phasers? You can't exactly stop something you've never encountered before).
Oh and Snot, as was mentioned. Didn't ONE FIGHTER take it the entire deathstar?
The Enterprise could've just transported a bomb straight into the DS's reactor, boom, and then warped out.
-Neo
kongurous
05-09-2006, 5:20 PM
The first Death Star got blown up by Luke's mastery of the Force and a proton torpedo. Went right down that 2 meter exhaust port... which was a vertical shaft despite the trench being a horizontal one. Only way to conventionally hit it was from above. Yeah, if not for Luke, the Rebels woulda been screwed.
The second Death Star packed heavier weapons and improved point-defense towers. Plus, it had many obstructions between the surface of the Death Star and the reactor core. The Enterprise probably woulda been ripped up by the defense fleet that the Emperor put around it, too.
Raging-Fury
05-09-2006, 7:47 PM
I think this is an interesting debate, I personally vote for starwars because i am an avid fan, i have read the expanded universe books post the Battle of Yavin, without pulling out anything from the books like the suncrusher, i would like to point out several basic statements and observations that are easily obtainable.
One: The Stardestroyer, as much as we glorify it as a master of war, is more a ship of seige. Star Destroyers are glorified Acclamators, their primary role is troop transport and planetary bombardment. Is it just a coincidence that turbolasers that can bomb a planet from teh sky work equally well in space? no. But in their primary role, a Star Destroyer is a mobile garrison desgined to inspire fear and deal out death at a planet. They were later utilized as capital warships in space engagements because it was a relatively simple conversion.
Two: The force, i have heard this being thrown around several times and the debate raging as to wether the ST universe would be affected by it. Either way, the force is a powerful tool. While people and ships in a different universe may be outside of the force, the force is not just at weapon. It also carries the ability to enhance reactions and natural abilities as evidenced by Luke's proton torpedo shot down the Death Star's exhaust port without targeting sensors. From teh books, it is used by jedi pilots and force sensitives to enhance reactions and gives pilots an almost precognitive sense. It also gives a heightened danger sense so threats to them are registered fast enough that they can have an idea when to throw the joystick sideways.
Three: Death Stars, The first one had several design flaws, the biggest of which was the exposed exhaust port which led straight to the core. Easy kill, as for the second Death Star, The Emperor, his judgement clouded by one possible vision of the future, allowed the rebels to find the location of the Death Star's construction yards in an attempt to crush them in one swoop using himself and their fears of another operational Death Star. Had this death star been completed and not destroyed in the construction phases it would not have had the flaws that led to the first stations destruction.
The thing is... it's the Death Star... with all it's abilities... against the USS Enterpise, in a shoot it out... the DS wins hands down. Not adding the force, or the Kirk Factor or (KF), I seriously think the Enterprise would get trounced, I mean, put Phasers and Lasers on the same page for a sec... yeah, Death Star wins still. Now think armor... Death Star has more of it.
It's a simple size, weapon, and protection thing, and the Enterprise lacks them all compared to the DS. And can we stop bringing up Luke and the whole killing of the first DS? It's beside the point.
Enterprise(Kirk)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,Death Star(Vader)
Enterprise(Kirk)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,Death Star(Vader)
You've yet to address the transporter thing.
I claim that transporters are >>>>>>>> death star.
If your going to continue the bullshit about the original series and kirk and the Enterprise (A) then of course its going to lose. Thats like comparing a yaght or something to an aircraft carrier.
And this is an evil topic... kind like macs vs pcs t.t
-Neo
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