The Great American BoyCott!! (5.1.2006)

[Protosschick99]

So....Anybody here closing their business for the day or walking out from school or work?

If ya'llz don't know what I am talking about--Let me show you the flyer:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/mr_blonde317/may12006LA_english.jpg

Since I have no school on Monday until 7:00 p.m., I called up Taco Bell to see if they need help cuz there are A LOT of Mexican's that work there, lolz. I told them if they needed help to go ahead and give me a call cuz I can come in and work. They got all jolly and were like, "Yes!! Come in and work please!!" lolz :P

I'm not walking out, nor am I gonna not go to school. I'm American, and I support this country. I may not like everything we've done, but this is something that I do not support. How about you peeps? Where do you stand?

[dunchy]

Undocumented workers presently in the united states = illegal immigrants you mean?

I'm really lost to this, maybe because I'm a Canadian and have not received a notice as to what's going on.

I'm confused but I don't support folks in the United States who are there undocumented.

[Nuts]

PC99, do you support illegal immigrants, meaning those that knowingly break the law to gain entry into our country? What other law breaking activites would you condone?

Edit: Sorry PC, I jumped to conclusions.

[Protosschick99]

No I do not support illegal immigrants. Because they come here, and work (Which is fine with me as long as they pay taxes :P) but then they get all the benefits that American's do such as welfare and whatnot. Those are my tax paying dollars going to someone who isn't even a citizen!

If they paid taxes I could care less, but they don't. Half their money goes back to Mexico anyways to support their family. Now I'm not saying "Send them all back to Mexico!!" No--There has to be a balance to things.

If they want America's benefits--Then they need to be American Citizens. End of story.

[MidnightGladius]

A lot of the people in my area (South Florida) are Hispanic immigrants, and most of them are not attending school on Monday.

Myself, I think that the government and the people have left the problem alone for far too long, so that the only reasonable solution, deportation (it's worked for essentially all other nations with illegal immigration problems), is no longer viable. If we had just gotten rid of them as they came in, it would remove the incentive of "it's very easy to get into and stay in the U.S.", and this probably wouldn't even be an issue right now.

Legal immigration is all well and good, but I have no mercy for illegals.

[SarahK]

Nuts I think you misunderstood completely. Look at what the poster says, then what she said she was going to do in the very first post.

She's putting a spanner in those assholes' work by filling in for those off on the streets shouting ;)

If racists and LaRouche-cultists are so strongly against it, then the government definitely has to be in the right for a change...:

Political views of Lyndon LaRouche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Lyndon_LaRouche#Women_and_femin ism)
(below pic from "Long live The Race! (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004962.htm)" article)
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/larouche.jpg

The signs you didn't see... (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004967.htm)
Muslims for Open Boarders (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004954.htm)
(google (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=viva+la+raza+long+live+the+race))http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/dallas005.jpghttp://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/sign002.jpg

[Nuts]

My apologies PC, I did indeed misunderstand. Thank you Sarah.

I read the first sentence of your post and assumed you were supporting this. I got egg on my face, don't I? ;)

[GrassDragon]

Do I think the immigration laws need another look at? Yes.
Do I support people who are here illegally? No. It's still illegal.

Just a few weeks ago there were TONS of kids walking out of school in "protest" around here. Hundreds of high schoolers were walking through the streets waving Mexican flags and screaming random stuff. Of course the news covered it and interviewed a few kids, who could say nothing other than "Go Mexico! I'm Mexican and proud!" It's just an excuse for them to skip school, they know nothing about what's going on.

[Dark_Soul74]

I oppose the illegal immigrants, just as most sensible people do. :D
But immigrants contribute billions to the economy and recieve few benefits in return.They do contribute to the economy, but they contribute the same bit that US citizens would contribute if they were the ones who had the jobs. They have few benefits because not only are they entering the country illegally, but they must continually break laws to remain in the country undetected. They also tend to live in very poor conditions because of this, where in some cases they could be worse off than in their country of origin. Another point of interest is that the illegal immigrants recieve low benefits because employers can hire them for extremely low wages, and not get in trouble for paying them below minimum wage. If laws are enacted to give them amnesty, they'll lose their job opportunities because there is no longer an advantage to hiring them, because they'd be the same cost as any other person.

Another interesting thing: The article states repeatedly that the politicians are "hatemongers", or are racist. However, this is clearly not the case. Although some politicians may actually be racist, I truly believe that the majority of the anti-immigrant legislation is not. Have you even considered what the possible effects of suddenly adding several million citizens to relatively small regions would be? Here's a hint: It's not peace and love for all mankind. The politicians are merely doing what they believe is good for the country, because if we end up taking in every person who can't find a job in their own country, they won't even be able to find jobs in ours.

I haven't posted in a while. >_>

[frazz]

If they want America's benefits--Then they need to be American Citizens. End of story.
That would mean paying taxes, which I am all for.

Just a note to you all who live in CA. Who do you see laboring in the fields and sun for minimum wage? Illegal immigrants. That is about the worst job there is here, but they are happy to have it. Deporting illegal immigrants is stupid, it will not only ruin thousands(millions?) of lives, it will cause big pain in the economy.
We might as well jsut say "What the heck, lets make em citizens and make em pay taxes."
You would have to be a tiny bit racist(or have a cold heart) to hate that idea.
More taxes + thousands(millions?) of lives bettered = good

And if that isn't good, here's another solution:
Just build a huge wall on the border. All children who are born here automatically become citizens, and the illegal immigrants would die out eventually and the problem would take care of itself.
Hey, the Chinese did it around their country, I think we could do it on one border.

[ScottieIWU]

Man, this post reeks of xenophobia and conservatism.

Anyway, just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's always wrong and that there are no exceptions. I don't necessarily condone breaking the law on normal occasions but I am for what is morally right. Denying people a better life via immigration laws is not right to me and I oppose it. I'll point out that in order to gain civil rights many minorities have used civil disobediance; Rosa Parks was a criminal, should we have no mercy for her because it was not the law (and the law can never be wrong)?

Illegal immigration is a kind of response to the shitty immigration laws in the United States that make it expensive and difficult for people to enter the country legally and take up residence. Moreover, these "criminals" who are coming into the country often do not break laws as doing so would mean almost immediate deportation. The result is that the immigrants often work hard and live quiet lives simply trying to provide better for themselves and their children. After all, how many low-quality and low-pay jobs go to illegal immigrants that the rest of us legal citizens would never lower ourselves to do? Besides contributing to productivity by working in our country what do these illegal immigrants do? Oh yah, they yearn for a better life than that which Mexico and other countries can provide.

Come on people, since when did we change "Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" to "No Vacancy."

Edit: Clearly many of you have not taken even an introductory economics class.

They do contribute to the economy, but they contribute the same bit that US citizens would contribute if they were the ones who had the jobs.I'm not sure if you were going somewhere with this, specifically that illegals are stelaing jobs, but you're probably wrong no matter where you were going.

Our unemployment rate is currently 4.7% which is very, very acceptable. You're not going to find an unemployment rate much lower than this without hitting inflation. This is important because illegal immigrants would be undocumented in the employment rate, as they are not technically citizens. Therefore if immigrants were posing a huge threat of stealing jobs from legal citizens you'd probably see a higher unempoyment rate than 4.7%.

The politicians are merely doing what they believe is good for the country, because if we end up taking in every person who can't find a job in their own country, they won't even be able to find jobs in ours.If a mass wave of immigrants enters the country, lets just say 1 million of them at once, there would be extreme shortage for consumer goods because of the increase in demand. The result is that companies would have to boost investment (read: labor) and thus would have to hire more workers.

[MidnightGladius]

And if that isn't good, here's another solution:
Just build a huge wall on the border. All children who are born here automatically become citizens, and the illegal immigrants would die out eventually and the problem would take care of itself.
Hey, the Chinese did it around their country, I think we could do it on one border.

The context is completely different; the Great Wall of China was built to ward out the Mongol invaders. The illegals aren't by any stretch of the imagination "invading" us, or at least not in the same way the Mongols were.

Also, keep in mind that the Wall failed in its purpose, and eventually got torn down by peasants to build huts. I don't think any such proposal along the U.S.-Mexico border would fare any better.

Or am I just missing his point completely and painting myself as an idiot?

---

EDIT to ScottieIWU's post:

Come on people, since when did we change "Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free" to "No Vacancy."

There are lines of people waiting to immigrate legally. I don't have the exact number off the top of my head, and I'm kind of pressed for time, but I seem to recall that number to be fairly high.

The illegal immigrants are disrespecting the process, and in doing so are causing bitterness in those waiting patiently. Also, as I said earlier, the more illegals who find it easy to enter the U.S., the more in their native countries who will find the prospect (especially with the higher standard of living and wages) more appealing.

[GenocideAlive]

I think I may save the bulk of my grocery shopping for that day. Maybe I'll go out to eat for all three meals, too. Hmm. Maybe I'll go to work for an extra 2 hours.

Illegals gain none of my sympathy, they're criminals that are attempting to circumvent our laws for their own personal benefit. I'm terribly sorry life sucks wherever they're coming from, but maybe if they stayed and attempted to better their environment instead of punking out their country for money, they wouldn't have this problem.

There's nothing patriotic about criminals and there's nothing noble about criminally entering our country motivated by money. I don't know why some dude from Russia that applies has to enter the lottery, but they can cut holes in the border fences and walk across the desert, while being supplied by "humanitarian aid".

I'm so sick of people and their "inalieable rights". It's been so twisted and damaged through abuse for personal gain it's almost worth abolishing the term altogether. No-one has the right to be here, no-one has the right to get a job here, and no-one has any moral high ground for attempting to get a job criminally. So you want to work, great--go work from whence you came. It's not the work that you want, is it? It's the money. You want money.

W/E, I'm sick of the rhetoric that I keep hearing. I've seen people passing around pictures of apparent Mexican-Americans at a high school in Cali hanging an American flag upside down underneath a Mexican flag while a bunch of teenie boppers pose and hold spanish signs. Want our money but don't want our rules--what a shock.

[SarahK]

by the way to the one mentioning racism if you meant me, I was pointing out that some of the pro-illegal-immigration thing are racists, not saying vice versa

[frazz]

Or am I just missing his point completely and painting myself as an idiot?
yep.
The context is completely different; the Great Wall of China was built to ward out the Mongol invaders. The illegals aren't by any stretch of the imagination "invading" us, or at least not in the same way the Mongols were.
Which would make our wall all the more easier and cheaper. Heh, a chain link fence with a slight electrical current or razorwire at the top would probably do the job.
Also, keep in mind that the Wall failed in its purpose, and eventually got torn down by peasants to build huts. I don't think any such proposal along the U.S.-Mexico border would fare any better.
Bad analogy.

[SarahK]

chain link wouldn't work, ever heard of wire cutters? plastic grips...

[GenocideAlive]

I use my cousin to get a job making big bucks. I'm caught and prosecuted for Nepotism and viewed as a crook and a cheat. A Mexican decides he isn't rolling like he wants to be, cuts a fence and hops the border. He gets a job and gets caught, they try to deport him, and suddenly he's a fucking folk hero.

How does this work? Race. It's everybody's favorite card in the US, and if you're a minority you just fall back on that bad boy to do all the dirty work. Mexicans that were illegals and eventually gained citizenship of course will buy into this, and so will their kids. So will their kid's kids. Because no matter what they think later in life, they won't be able to get away from the fact that they entered the country illegally. Rather than reconcile that what their ancestry did was wrong, they'd much rather find another culprit to pass the buck.

And while it may or may not only be whites that are attempting to close the floodgates at our border, it certainly makes a convienent target. Mexicans stand up and say we're Americans and it's wrong to stop someone from seeking a better life in American because it's the American way to work for you dreams. Of course, they leave off that it's NOT the American way to get a job illegally and exploit our laws for monetary gain.

I don't want these people's fucking taxes, I want them out of America. Enter in this fucking country just like everybody else gets in, and shut the fuck up about what you deserve or what's American. When you gain citizenship like every other motherfucker that can't choose to break the law and then live here, tell me what's American.

[B.A.Baracus]

Do any of you even live in any of the border states? Im right here in the front lines so to speak, AZ is the main hot spot for this whole thing. And these people are contributing a lot.
To just send them back would take a huge amount of our work force. And if you actuly hang out with these "aliens" you'll find they're just normal people. While I dont think they should just let them cross illeagaly, they need to do something like guest workers becoming citezens. Check out John MaCain our senitor, hes got the right idea.
Besides, Mexico and the U.S. are gonna merge into one country anyway, well at least thats what it looks like from down here.

Edit
Chain link wont keep anyone out, they will just come anyway.
About 55% of the population here is hispanic, and you know what, I dont want that to change. Hispanic culture is a big part of AZ's history, and Mexicans have been coming long before you guys heard about it on the news.
Im having trouble trying to expain this to you guys, let me think about it for a few minutes and then Ill post again.

[Wick3d]

Fuck the illegals. They aren't "immigrants". They're trespassers. If they don't want to work for a day, that's fine with me. I'll go without grapes.

[Protosschick99]

Do any of you even live in any of the border states? Im right here in the front lines so to speak, AZ is the main hot spot for this whole thing. And these people are contributing a lot.

To just send them back would take a huge amount of our work force. And if you actuly hang out with these "aliens" you'll find they're just normal people. While I dont think they should just let them cross illeagaly, they need to do something like guest workers becoming citezens. Check out John MaCain our senitor, hes got the right idea.

Besides, Mexico and the U.S. are gonna merge into one country anyway, well at least thats what it looks like from down here.



Edit

Chain link wont keep anyone out, they will just come anyway.

About 55% of the population here is hispanic, and you know what, I dont want that to change. Hispanic culture is a big part of AZ's history, and Mexicans have been coming long before you guys heard about it on the news.

Im having trouble trying to expain this to you guys, let me think about it for a few minutes and then Ill post again.


I live in Southern California and yes I KNOW many illegal's. If it wasn't for my ancestor's hopping the border, I wouldn't even be here.

My grandparents were smart, they snuck in, had my dad and my aunt here in the states--And when the government tried to deport them, my grandparents were like, "We had two kids here in the U.S.--If you deport us you'll have to take care of them."

The government refused so they let my grandparents stay. My grandparents and the rest of my aunts and uncles are now citizen's but they are like major brown pride "Viva la Raza!!" fanatics, lolz.

My uncle belonged to the brown berets and my aunt was like all involved in some stuff I can't even remember what it's called, lolz.

On my mom's side--My great grandma dressed as a man, snuck on a train, and that's how she got here. During the Mexican revolution, her whole family was killed because some soldiers came and burned their farm. She escaped barely and came here to the states.

I know my heritage and I know where I come from....I know these are real ppl, I'm not saying they aren't--But if you really think about it--The illegal's make up a whole grip of our workforce. The average American is not about to do all the hard work that they do. They are too lazy :\

So we can't just kick 'em out and say good ridance. That sucks :( But if they don't pay taxes and they are given the opportunity to pay yet they don't--Well then they need to go back to where they came from if they don't wanna obey the law!

If you wanna live in this country, you gotta obey the rules thank you very much.

[Dark_Soul74]

If a mass wave of immigrants enters the country, lets just say 1 million of them at once, there would be extreme shortage for consumer goods because of the increase in demand. The result is that companies would have to boost investment (read: labor) and thus would have to hire more workers.

Hehe. Reagonomics.

[kongurous]

Illegal immigrants are just... illegal. They want our rights, our laws, our way of life? Get in line, bitch.

I'm not skipping work because of this, and while I am tempted to leave a pile of radars unfixed in the event someone comes by to smack these Mexicans down, I have a moral obligation to do my job. Even if I don't do it that often.

[ScottieIWU]

Hehe. Reagonomics.So I take it by your pointless one-line response that you haven't actually taken any kind of economics class (or spelling, for that matter), because that's not only demand-side expectations (increasing C causes an increase in I) but it's also as basic supply and demand as you can get.

[Dark_Soul74]

So I take it by your pointless one-line response that you haven't actually taken any kind of economics class (or spelling, for that matter), because that's not only demand-side expectations (increasing C causes an increase in I) but it's also as basic supply and demand as you can get.

Your arguments require two things:
1) I care enough to write Reaganomics correctly, and that simplistic economic strategies can't be understood by anyone who isn't a certified professional in the field of economics, which in itself is prejudice.
2) That supply and demand work only as supply and demand, and assuming that every possible item that can be demanded is constantly available, with the only two variables being A - The demand, and B - The workforce to produce the supply. This doesn't include anything such as the actual economic status of the people demanding the items, or the materials required to produce the items. Even if the jobs did increase dramatically, it would not be enough, because industry sharply decreases the number of people required to make items, and the ratio between suppliers(employees) and those that demand the product would get more and more dramatic.

I'm not sure if you were going somewhere with this, specifically that illegals are stelaing jobs, but you're probably wrong no matter where you were going. What I was saying was that a job is a job. The poster stated that the immigrants were, in effect, solely responsible for adding billions to the economy, when the same amount would simply be credited to someone else if they were not the ones who had the jobs.

[Neo]

I find it interesting that there are some of you who are like 'fuck them, send them out, kick them out'.

Christ, yall sound like KKK Members talking about blacks back in 1902 or some shit.

Grow the fuck up.

Illegal Immigrants may have gotten here illegally -- which I dont support -- but if they are working -- and working hard -- then I think we need to help them. Not just boot them out.

I also assumed part of this issue had to do with the undocumented workers, who got really short straws working in horrible/dangerous/etc.... type places or jobs.

Its one thing to say "omg kick them out" and another to actually offer a solution.

I think the problem lies with Employers. If they are willing to "hire" these people, then they need to take responsibility for them. To me that is a bigger issue then this whole immigrant bullshit.

How hard is it to become a citizen anyways? Couldn't we just create some kind of program... or some such that could help these people become legal citizens that these employers stop taking advantage of them?

-Neo

[GenocideAlive]

I find it interesting that there are some of you who are like 'fuck them, send them out, kick them out'.

Christ, yall sound like KKK Members talking about blacks back in 1902 or some shit.

Grow the fuck up.
[expletive deleted] YOU. You have no right to infer that I'm a KKK member, nor do you have any right to tell me to grow up and insult me because I don't agree with your hippy bullshit. Consider yourself and your post reported.
Illegal Immigrants may have gotten here illegally -- which I dont support -- but if they are working -- and working hard -- then I think we need to help them. Not just boot them out.
WE DON'T NEED TO HELP ANYBODY.

They can get here legally like the tens of thousands of others, BREAKING U.S. LAW DOESN'T MAKE YOU A CHARITY CASE.

In the US you're prosecuted for stealing, doesn't matter if you're Wynona Rider or you're a poor father of 10. Breaking the law isn't a solution to problems and isn't something for which we should fucking reward people.

[Protosschick99]

Dude he said we sound like them--Not that we are. Calm down, I've been called worse and I didn't report it cuz it's just retarded. :P

I agree with you Neo--I'm not all for deporting them right away and now--If they wanna become citizens then HIGH FIVE! But if they just wanna take advantage--Heck No.

[Neo]

[expletive deleted] YOU. You have no right to infer that I'm a KKK member, nor do you have any right to tell me to grow up and insult me because I don't agree with your hippy bullshit. Consider yourself and your post reported.

WE DON'T NEED TO HELP ANYBODY.

They can get here legally like the tens of thousands of others, BREAKING U.S. LAW DOESN'T MAKE YOU A CHARITY CASE.

In the US you're prosecuted for stealing, doesn't matter if you're Wynona Rider or you're a poor father of 10. Breaking the law isn't a solution to problems and isn't something for which we should fucking reward people.
Theres a problem when they can come to america, AND GET HIRED!

The fact is that these people ARE coming here.

The fact is that these people also getting hired for jobs that they really shouldn't be doing!

I might agree with you if these people were coming to america just to fuck around, but these people are working -- and getting paid piss poor amounts, in horrible enviroments.

They need help. And I bet that helping them to become a full citizen so that employers can't exploit them anymore would take a lot less then to go after each and every single one of them and deport them back to mexico.

Although I like Mencia's take on it, he would love to ring food service in a hotel and hear "Yes, Sir?" in a southern drawl. Obviously reading it loses some of the hilarity.

And what do you mean breaking the law doesn't get you rewarded? There are multimillion companies, ceos, and others that break the law daily and get away scott free.

Comparing this problem to stealing is pretty worthless, because one doesn't normally break into a bank to work there.

I want to see the blame game turned around onto the companies and individuals who hire these immigrants -- aren't they breaking the law as well? Or do they no longer matter? Lets focus on the smaller, less important object rather then larger more important one?

The point is that I really could give a shit about the immigrants (no offense to any yall), I care more about the employer aspect of it.

Oh, and that quip about the KKK? That was seriously not directed at you. Believe it or not there are other people participating in this thread -- It was aimed more at the comments like "fuck the immigrants" or w/e.

I think its kind of ironic. These people come into america and work any job they can find, while we still have homeless roaming the streets. If 6 or 7 million immigrants can make their way into the US, and get jobs, then why is it so hard for our current homeless to get jobs?

I've got an idea, lets deport all the homeless people to mexico. Hell, at least these illegal immigrants are working and shit. Its not like come over here and then sit around on their asses claiming that their babies daddy is out cheating on them on jerry springer... or watching that.

-Neo

[GrassDragon]

Illegal Immigrants may have gotten here illegally -- which I dont support -- but if they are working -- and working hard -- then I think we need to help them. Not just boot them out.
Give me a frickin' break. Why should we help criminals?

Its one thing to say "omg kick them out" and another to actually offer a solution.
Here's a solution: become a legal citizen and get a job like the rest of us.

EDIT:
I've got an idea, lets deport all the homeless people to mexico. Hell, at least these illegal immigrants are working and shit. Its not like come over here and then sit around on their asses claiming that their babies daddy is out cheating on them on jerry springer... or watching that.
Even if they are lazy, homeless people aren't illegal. Why should they be punished?

[Neo]

Give me a frickin' break. Why should we help criminals?
Why should we let criminals off the hook? (read: those "hiring" these individuals")

Here's a solution: become a legal citizen and get a job like the rest of us.
Funny, thats what I was suggesting. Thats what they want, to become legal citizens. Am I missing something here? O_o I Suggested we help them (read: become citizens)... not like give them handouts.

Was I being unclear?

-Neo

[dunchy]

I find it interesting that there are some of you who are like 'fuck them, send them out, kick them out'.

Christ, yall sound like KKK Members talking about blacks back in 1902 or some shit.

Grow the fuck up.

Illegal Immigrants may have gotten here illegally -- which I dont support -- but if they are working -- and working hard -- then I think we need to help them. Not just boot them out.

I also assumed part of this issue had to do with the undocumented workers, who got really short straws working in horrible/dangerous/etc.... type places or jobs.

Its one thing to say "omg kick them out" and another to actually offer a solution.

I think the problem lies with Employers. If they are willing to "hire" these people, then they need to take responsibility for them. To me that is a bigger issue then this whole immigrant bullshit.

How hard is it to become a citizen anyways? Couldn't we just create some kind of program... or some such that could help these people become legal citizens that these employers stop taking advantage of them?

-Neo

Those that do not disagree with you are not KKK members. I'm exhausted of driving by a work area to find 10 Chineese people lining up at a job site who do not even speak the national fucking language, much less have a Canadian citizenship. It's even worse in the United States with Illegal Immigrants.

Edit:: I read this before the post just above me Neo, apologies, thought you meant this toward me.


So why do you think we need them here? The Illegal Immigrant who: A. Doesn't go to school and is uneducated. B. Eats up welfare like Catherine Zeta Jones at a all you can eat buffet. C. Can't speak English. D. Undermines the economy by underpaying their work and/or taking no pride in it and viewing it only as a paycheck. ?

It's a likeness to me giving money to the bum who stands outside the liquor store asking for spare change. Do you give him money? Fuck no. If you do he runs inside to buy the dollar beer/wine and just gets drunk, he doesn't go to Mcdonalds to get a coffee like he said. If so why would he stand outside a Liquor store? If you want in, you want my help, you fucking learn my language, my culture. I'm not helping out you, till you help us.

It's interesting you talk about employers though. I've been to a few different locations, and it works like this. Boss A is a Hispanic, and he likes Hispanic. In fact, he gives jobs to more hispanics at the bottom end to save money and help them out. He saves money because they undercut work by offering to work less and he feels great because boss man thinks he saved a mans life by giving him a shitty wage, but a wage nonetheless.

I've looked into becoming a Citizen of the United States, I love Seattle and live there. It's very difficult however (why does everything think it's a breeze to become a citizen anyhow) to get that citizenship and I'm educated.

If your life sucks where you are, don't just run the border and find out it's bad there too. Do something about your current situation, find out if you can get education and training. It's not all that tough if you have the correct mindset.

[Neo]

It's interesting you talk about employers though. I've been to a few different locations, and it works like this. Boss A is a Hispanic, and he likes Hispanic. In fact, he gives jobs to more hispanics at the bottom end to save money and help them out. He saves money because they undercut work by offering to work less and he feels great because boss man thinks he saved a mans life by giving him a shitty wage, but a wage nonetheless.

I've looked into becoming a Citizen of the United States, I love Seattle and live there. It's very difficult however (why does everything think it's a breeze to become a citizen anyhow) to get that citizenship and I'm educated.

If your life sucks where you are, don't just run the border and find out it's bad there too. Do something about your current situation, find out if you can get education and training. It's not all that tough if you have the correct mindset.
Yeah. That post was seriously in bad taste, I'm sorry I worded it that way. It certainly was not meant like it sounded -- things always sound better in our heads right?

The thing that bothers me are the employers. These people/companies are the ones who really need to be... I don't know, blamed I guess. I like your analogy to a bum, whats sad though, is that a great many of these immigrants actually work -- work at anything. Have you ever asked a bum why hes not in a homeless shelter? Or in one of those volunteer centers (whatever they are called) that help homeless people back on their feet, help them get jobs, etc...?

I mean, these people don't come over here and just fuck around. It would be different, I agree, if they came over to america and did NOTHING, but in most cases that is far from the truth.

I would like to see it possible to give these people a chance to become citizens -- and legally be part of America.... Or something.

Its easy to say "Learn my language..." and stuff dunch -- but its not that easy. Yes I agree thats important -- they shouldn't be working at a Fast Food joint with poor english skills, but then again, there are other aspects to it.

My father works in contruction -- has for most of his life. Although now hes in Demolition (I think secretly he likes it -- but he is so very annoying.... OT sorry). Hes worked/is working with many mexicans and hes never had anything bad to say about them -- Hes always said that they work hard, harder then "normal people" (forget how he put it). He also mentioned that when you give them a job to do -- they actually do it. They dont fuck around or go slowly or anything.

See this is the stuff I'm hearing -- directly from people who work with or see these people working. It just grates on me that there are people out there who think "oh well, they don't do anything except lie around and get drunk!!! lets deport the bastards!!! they dont speak english!!! omgwtfbbq~!!!!!"

You know?

Is any of this making sense?

Heres what I think:

They are a problem. But deporting them isn't the best solution.
They need to become citizens if they are going to stay here.
There needs to be an... I don't want to say easier way, but some way for them to come to america without jumping a fence.

There needs to be responsility dropped onto crooked employers who hire them for next to nothing (Hispanic employers or not). Its not fair to focus on only one aspect of the problem -- and not the other.

Besides that, almost every hispanic neighbor(s) I've been near have always stayed to themselves. Which I find refreshing. Here at our new place we've got this fat white lady screaming bitch at my mother -- and giving the finger to my brother! I can garuntee you that a majority of hispanics wouldn't be doing that -_-;;;

one big ramble.

Again I apoligize for the wording in that first post of mine. I really didn't mean for it to sound like that =/

-Neo

[GenocideAlive]

Mexicans overwhelm every one of our basic service with their problems that they bring with them. In turn, they cost every American money at any point and time they need to use those services.

If an immigrant gets his hand badly cut, he's given excellent healthcare for free then deported; he jumps right back across. I pay $12000 for a 3 day hospital stay that requires an initial 1-hour diagnosis and 71 hours of just nurses coming in and shooting sedative into an IV. I'm required to pay 6, 7, 8 times what it cost them to treat me, why is that? Oh yeah, the ghetto is a good 10 blocks away.

An immigrant knifes a citizen, runs back across the border until the heat dies down, then comes back across in a different city using a different name and will never be caught. It costs police manhours, coroner manhours, and public service manhours.

An immigrant jumps the border, buys a car with cash, and drives without a license. Untrained, he wrecks into someone and ruins their car and his. Flees the scene. Insurance rates get hiked for everybody, police manhours are consumed, assesor manhours are consumed, public towing is consumed, streets suffer, the legal driver suffers.

A legal mexican gets awarded Section 8 housing (low income housing), rents out his house to 14 of his friends for $100 a month a piece, and when they're discovered the number that were there are deported. He makes a fat $1400 a month, rents another house from some poor unsuspecting sap, and repeats the process. The living spaces are all but wrecked, toilets destroyed, sinks demolished, carpets / floors ruined, windows broken, all from having 14 people living in a house meant for 4.

Pony up the green, Americans, those are your hard working Mexican friends that deserve to be citizens. Those are the criminals that work hard for money and always do what they're told immediately and well so that they can get that cold hard cash. They're not hurting anybody, right? They're just trying to work for a living; don't be an ignorant racist.
Besides that, almost every hispanic neighbor(s) I've been near have always stayed to themselves. Which I find refreshing. Here at our new place we've got this fat white lady screaming bitch at my mother -- and giving the finger to my brother! I can garuntee you that a majority of hispanics wouldn't be doing that
Fucking unbelieveable. I'm the racist.

[LinkTheGameFreak]

Mexicans overwhelm every one of our basic service with their problems that they bring with them. In turn, they cost every American money at any point and time they need to use those services.

If an immigrant gets his hand badly cut, he's given excellent healthcare for free then deported; he jumps right back across. I pay $12000 for a 3 day hospital stay that requires an initial 1-hour diagnosis and 71 hours of just nurses coming in and shooting sedative into an IV. I'm required to pay 6, 7, 8 times what it cost them to treat me, why is that? Oh yeah, the ghetto is a good 10 blocks away.

An immigrant knifes a citizen, runs back across the border until the heat dies down, then comes back across in a different city using a different name and will never be caught. It costs police manhours, coroner manhours, and public service manhours.

An immigrant jumps the border, buys a car with cash, and drives without a license. Untrained, he wrecks into someone and ruins their car and his. Flees the scene. Insurance rates get hiked for everybody, police manhours are consumed, assesor manhours are consumed, public towing is consumed, streets suffer, the legal driver suffers.

A legal mexican gets awarded Section 8 housing (low income housing), rents out his house to 14 of his friends for $100 a month a piece, and when they're discovered the number that were there are deported. He makes a fat $1400 a month, rents another house from some poor unsuspecting sap, and repeats the process. The living spaces are all but wrecked, toilets destroyed, sinks demolished, carpets / floors ruined, windows broken, all from having 14 people living in a house meant for 4.

Pony up the green, Americans, those are your hard working Mexican friends that deserve to be citizens. Those are the criminals that work hard for money and always do what they're told immediately and well so that they can get that cold hard cash. They're not hurting anybody, right? They're just trying to work for a living; don't be an ignorant racist.

Fucking unbelieveable. I'm the racist.

In some aspects I agree with you here - it's pathetic that people abuse our system like that but don't group all hispanics together... it would be like me calling someone white trash just because they are causcasian...

edit: also, the great american boycott is fucking bullshit - mexicans walking out on work to prove a point? it's rediculous - what will it accomplish? nothing other than perpetuate a negative stereotype by doing exactly the opposite of the right thing.

in every racial demographic there is going to be a group of people who fit a negative stereotype of that race but this makes me ashamed to be hispanic... almost all of our race is supporting this? BULL. SHIT.

[Protosschick99]

Seriously--I don't support it. Yeah I am Mexican, but don't throw me in there :P

[KexMex]

Funny that illegal immigrants always get to work on the fields there. Here, they always work in pizzerias. I can honestly say I've never ever seen a white guy in a Swedish pizzeria.

But I can't say I support illegal immigrants anyway. I mean sure, they have it hard, but isn't it a pain to live in fear of getting caught too? -_-

I might be stupid. Dunno.

[Kazansky]

We had another near coup d'etat on May 1 - combined Communist rebels assaulting the presidential palace and workers, farmers and construction workers rallying in the street. I'm sure you'll fare better than we did. :D

[Protosschick99]

Taco Bell just called me in a frenzy--They need help BAD. I guess only like 3 ppl showed up!

Well, I'm off to go help them--Laterz! :D

[Snot]

This whole boycott of immigrant workers is bullshit. I know they want to show us how important they are, however, not working all day and causing a black hole in profit and production is not they way to do it, especially in a time where our economy is fragile enough as it is. If they wanted to show their importance, then they can have rallies like all the other whining factions out there. Not a country wide strike that will hurt the very country they say they love.

No I do not agree that illegal immigrants are right, my great grandparents had to go through else island to become American citizens. These people only have to hop a fence and their called Americans. That’s horse shit and not fair to those who have been here longer. However, they may be given the opportunity to gain their citizenship, testing, English proficiency testing. Cause if you’re going to live here, speak the language that has been used since the beginning.

And this is to us Americans, we need to not be lazy and picky. A job is a job. I grew up doing roofing and flippin burgers. But now, my nephew is having difficulty finding a job. Cause those that aren’t full with retired or laid off employees, are filled with illegal immigrant workers willing to work for next to nothing.

One word comes to mind when I hear that… slavery. Cause that’s all they are willing to do, work for nothing and put other people who want to work, and get a decent pay, out to the curb. That’s bullshit.

Anyway, now my nephew is in the military with me. Military life is practically the only thing left for people to do…

[GenocideAlive]

In some aspects I agree with you here - it's pathetic that people abuse our system like that but don't group all hispanics together... it would be like me calling someone white trash just because they are causcasian...
I don't feel at any juncture did I group all hispanics together nor did I accuse legal Mexicans of failing our system. Such is not the case and if it appears that I said as such I would like to clarify that it is not as of now.
in every racial demographic there is going to be a group of people who fit a negative stereotype of that race but this makes me ashamed to be hispanic... almost all of our race is supporting this? BULL. SHIT.
I don't even know if you're talking to me now, but please see above.

[MidnightGladius]

In school today, the principal announced that anybody walking out of class would be suspended for three to five days (the same length that fighting gets you).

Great; turn a counterproductive demonstration method and make it even more counterproductive. Bleh.

[Dusty]

Well here in Bowling Green Ky. The southern end of town was pretty much shut down due to the fact protesters were all up and down 13th street and the square. I personally think that the ones who come to WORK are fine. But what pisses me off is when some mexicans came out of dollar store with ipods and razor phones when me and my mom just lost her part time job :mad:

[LinkTheGameFreak]

Well here in Bowling Green Ky. The southern end of town was pretty much shut down due to the fact protesters were all up and down 13th street and the square. I personally think that the ones who come to WORK are fine. But what pisses me off is when some mexicans came out of dollar store with ipods and razor phones when me and my mom just lost her part time job :mad:

they sell iPod's at the dollar store? How far is Bowling Green, KY from Evansville, IN?

@ GA - I was just making a general statement - nothing really in response to your comment

[JoEsMhOe]

Undocumented workers presently in the united states = illegal immigrants you mean?

I'm really lost to this, maybe because I'm a Canadian and have not received a notice as to what's going on.

I'm confused but I don't support folks in the United States who are there undocumented.

Actually, there is a deportation notices going on here in Canada. Recently, immigration came to a school here in Toronto and took two kids out of school to arrest their parents and deport them. We, as Canadians are facing the same issue, only on a different scale.

[Modred]

So today I wanted to grab some pizza for lunch because it was in the middle of the afternoon and the cafeteria would have nothing good. But when I arrived at the pizza place, it was closed due to the boycott. So I went to Subway instead.

In fact, the pizza place was the only store in the area that I saw closed, but then again my university is in the middle of a somewhat wealthy, mostly white, neighborhood.

[DragonPaladin]

It looks like the fliers want everyone to join. But it can't really be a day without an immigrant if everyone joins :P

It's especially big down here in Arizona, because us and the states around us take most of the immigratory masses. So far, I haven't heard that much...the Ranch Market around Thunderbird was closed...but other than that it seems like normal news.

[kongurous]

Around NS JAX, the nearby wood yard wasn't operating at optimum efficiency. Other than that, nothing noticeable.

[dunchy]

Actually, there is a deportation notices going on here in Canada. Recently, immigration came to a school here in Toronto and took two kids out of school to arrest their parents and deport them. We, as Canadians are facing the same issue, only on a different scale.

No way? I wonder if that's from our new PM's promises about deportation matters, from what I got from his speeches anyhow.

[Black.Ice]

If they wanted to show their importance, then they can have rallies like all the other whining factions out there.


I think your own quote answers part of your initial question. By joining the masses of "whining factions" out there and doing a rally, they'll be one amongst the many. They won't get noticed. At least this way they're getting attention.

I'm split on this issue. Great way of getting attention. Bad way of getting what you want done.

[Whiteknight]

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2168/tshirt8ph.jpg

Wee for small towns. Nothing here was affected whatsoever.

[JoEsMhOe]

No way? I wonder if that's from our new PM's promises about deportation matters, from what I got from his speeches anyhow.

Yup, the exact same one. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. If you come here illegally, that you are breaking a LAW, so there for, you mush be punished, and that punishment is deportation. If they do decide to let these immigrants say, who's to say what "law" we should obey or not.

[Nickodemus]

HEHE, I say we should have showed up at the end of the rout that they marched with a whole bunch of cattle trucks ( so they can breathe . I'm not that mean ya know. ) Load them inside the trucks and ship them back. They arn't joining the system, so they do not need to be here. Although this whole illegal imigrant thing can and should be blammed squarely on big buisness. They want cheap slave labor that they do not have to pay benefits to. With those illegals, they get it.

[GrassDragon]

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2168/tshirt8ph.jpg

Wee for small towns. Nothing here was affected whatsoever.
I forgot people were even doing it until I saw the coverage on the 10 PM news.

[Nickodemus]

I know my heritage and I know where I come from....I know these are real ppl, I'm not saying they aren't--But if you really think about it--The illegal's make up a whole grip of our workforce. The average American is not about to do all the hard work that they do. They are too lazy :\


~ This quote from chickie screams the following. BULLSHIT!!!!!

The average american would do those jobs. they just wont do them for the krap wages that the large companies want to pay them. That is such a load of krap!

[Protosschick99]

You're funny. :P

Btw--Your spelling, grammar, and punctuation are getting a lot better :) I was just gonna say that over in the RP forum the other day :)

[GenocideAlive]

I get a little tired of the dumbass generalizations flying around. Americans are too lazy to do work? Since when? Maybe Hollywood and our politicans have ruined the image of America, but I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of Americans are more than willing to do work. If you want to pay them $5 to scoop shit, you may not find so many applicants.

Of course, then you can always hire an illegal alien and start skimming profits off the top and get addicted to the money you're making. Then when people threaten to shut down your operation to exploit human labor, you can cry that prices have to go up because nobody else will do the job. Nevermind that if you jacked prices up sales would drop and you'd have to eventually come up with a price that isn't quite the profit farm you want it to be.

But hey, as long as we can obfuscate the issue and pass the buck while cloaking the whole charade in the guise of a human interest piece, everybody's happy.

[frazz]

The illegal immigration is our fault anyway. We have weak borders and we're paying the price(not that there's much harm anyway).
The way I see it, mexico doesn't care at all. They don't mind enough to make a border patrol at least.
In the end, we all know that mass deportation is not going to happen. It would totally wreck the economy.(if they weren't here we could find others to do the job, but ridding milllions of workers all at once is not good) So we might as well give them citizenship. They already get welfare and such. If we give them citizenship we can keep track of their taxes and all that. Plus, they would be less likely to be slaves.
Or we could make legal immigration not cost so much. It's cheaper to higher a bunch of coyotes(smuglers) over and over until you get to the U.S. then to do it the legal way.

On a different subject, I saw a commercial for florida orange juice the other day. the grove was picturess and all the workers were whtie, shaved, and rather nice looking. I guess they don't want to portray the poor imigrant work(read slave)force they really have. =/

[Protosschick99]

Yeah I saw that too! I was thinking, "Tripp'n! I have NEVER seen a white man in an orange grove laboring under the sun like that before!" >.<

[UnHoly-Assassin]

The Illegal Immigrant who: A. Doesn't go to school and is uneducated. B. Eats up welfare like Catherine Zeta Jones at a all you can eat buffet. C. Can't speak English. D. Undermines the economy by underpaying their work and/or taking no pride in it and viewing it only as a paycheck. ?
You make it sound as if all immigrants are uneducated and skip school. Also, most of them work for their life, and does not even know how to get welfare. Only the minority of immigrants are not fluent in english. And I do not see the point of working if you're not in it for the paycheck.
Boss A is a Hispanic, and he likes Hispanic. In fact, he gives jobs to more hispanics at the bottom end to save money and help them out.
Boss A could also be White, and hire Hispanics for the same reason as saving money. You're right that a person is more likely to hire someone of similar ethnicity, but that is not limited to Immigrants.
An immigrant knifes a citizen, runs back across the border until the heat dies down, then comes back across in a different city using a different name and will never be caught.

An immigrant jumps the border, buys a car with cash, and drives without a license. Untrained, he wrecks into someone and ruins their car and his. Flees the scene.
Funny how I hardly ever hear about these in the news. Most of the criminals I hear about are American :/. If I can make bad statements about groups of people based on individual incidents, I can make a lot of bad statements about everyone.
Pony up the green, Americans, those are your hard working Mexican friends that deserve to be citizens.
Chances are, they used to be illegal immigrants too. Not that is always true, but most illegal immigrants need to take residency in the US for a few years before they can get a green card.
If they paid taxes I could care less, but they don't. Half their money goes back to Mexico anyways to support their family.
You can't blame them for wanting to support their family back home. You would do the same in their situation. For illegal immigrants, I'd bet they want to be able to pay taxes to vote. It's just that the immigration process is not efficient enough to accept them and grant them legal status within a reasonable time frame. It makes them wait for years to become legal, and in that waiting period they cannot pay taxes even if they wanted to.
They do contribute to the economy, but they contribute the same bit that US citizens would contribute if they were the ones who had the jobs.
Yeah, except most of the educated Americans that we like to talk about wouldn't want these jobs. Who wants to work as a crop-picker when you can be a highly-paid doctor?
The politicians are merely doing what they believe is good for the country And the illegal immigrants are simply trying to find a good living in what they precieve as a country better than their own.
And if that isn't good, here's another solution:
Just build a huge wall on the border
Walls wouldn't be effective. Not only are there still the coastal regions that can be accessed by boat, there are also the enviornmental concerns, such as the one that results from the bill proposing the long wall between the US and Mexico:
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary’s sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.

`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court shall have jurisdiction—

`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or

`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.’.
The government would have no problems clearing away land property and protected ecosystems for the proposed wall.
Anyway, just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's always wrong and that there are no exceptions. I don't necessarily condone breaking the law on normal occasions but I am for what is morally right.
I agree. There can be laws that may not be right, and though it's understandable that illegal immigrants have no right to be in the US, they should be given a better chance to show that they can become the average American, even more.
The illegal immigrants are disrespecting the process
Most of them are, but there might be a reason to it. It might be that the process is ineffective, and that the immigrants don't want to wait a few years for the slim chance that they'd be accepted. I have relatives whose case was delayed for years after the precieved date. If the process was improved, maybe we wouldn't have as many illegals.
It's not the work that you want, is it? It's the money. You want money.
Of course, thats what everyone looks for when they work. What's the point of work without pay?
Mexicans that were illegals and eventually gained citizenship of course will buy into this, and so will their kids. So will their kid's kids. Because no matter what they think later in life, they won't be able to get away from the fact that they entered the country illegally. Rather than reconcile that what their ancestry did was wrong, they'd much rather find another culprit to pass the buck.Fuck the illegals. They aren't "immigrants". They're trespassers.
I'm not sure if you've forgotten this, but we're a country of immigrants. If any, we're all tresspassers. After all, it was our ancestors who raided and colonized Native American land and declared it our own.
Breaking the law isn't a solution to problems and isn't something for which we should fucking reward people.
Illegal immigrants aren't getting rewarded, I don't see where you get that idea. There are times when people break laws to provide a suitable living, and these situations draw sympathizers, not people who reward them for what they do. They're here illegally, but I see most of them come here righteously.
Give me a frickin' break. Why should we help criminals?
As someone pointed out somewhere else in this thread, the escaping blacks during the slave period can also be considered criminals. But Americans help them escape. Why?
This whole boycott of immigrant workers is bullshit. I know they want to show us how important they are, however, not working all day and causing a black hole in profit and production is not they way to do it
I find it an intresting way to get a point across, similar to the illegal NYC Mass Transit Strike a while ago. There's people talking about illegal immigrants as the undesired class, so the illegal immigrants show them, not just tell them, what it would be like without them working to provide for consumers like you.
But what pisses me off is when some mexicans came out of dollar store with ipods and razor phones when me and my mom just lost her part time job
Sure. Blame the mexicans whenever things don't work out for you.
HEHE, I say we should have showed up at the end of the rout that they marched with a whole bunch of cattle trucks ( so they can breathe . I'm not that mean ya know. ) Load them inside the trucks and ship them back.
You want the Great American Boycott to turn into the Great American Riot?

Telling every illegal immigrant to GTF outta our country isn't going to solve much. Building a wall will just get the illegals to resort to other routes. The fact is, illegal immigrants are going to keep coming in and there is little we can do about it. So why not make the best of the situation, try to get the illegals able to pay tax asap, and maybe even try to make their home country a better place so that they have less reason to immigrate?

ADD: Something to lighten the mood ^_^
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YhEl6HdfqWM

[frazz]

Thankyou for responding to all the lame posts taht the rest of us were to lazy to respond to, UA. You made a great point.
The Illegal Immigrant who: A. Doesn't go to school and is uneducated. B. Eats up welfare like Catherine Zeta Jones at a all you can eat buffet. C. Can't speak English. D. Undermines the economy by underpaying their work and/or taking no pride in it and viewing it only as a paycheck. ?
A. Ya, they do.(they don't always do well but I've seen lots of kids of illegal immigrants doing better than white kids_
B. Most don't
C. They live in spanish speaking communities. Koreans, chinese, russians and others all do this just fine.
D. I would take pride in sending my money back to my starving families. (wouldn't you?)
Boss A is a Hispanic, and he likes Hispanic. In fact, he gives jobs to more hispanics at the bottom end to save money and help them out.
And I'm sure there are no racist white people... :rollseyes:
But what pisses me off is when some mexicans came out of dollar store with ipods and razor phones when me and my mom just lost her part time job
Mexican does not equal illegal immigrant. What you saw was probably a hard working guy who EARNED his pay. Sorry about your mom.

Wut I've noticed in this thread is that many people are abandoning logic and hate mongering against others. It seems people's overall compassion is getting lower. As pointed out earlier, people broke the law in the slave times to do what they(and about everyone else) knew what was right. Now people obey the law indiscriminantly without stopping to wonder if it's right. The law is sometimes wrong. This country was founded on slavery(which most here would say is wrong). It's our fault anyway. We have the lame immigration system.(which costs less than a coyote) And whatever happened to thinking of yourself in someone elses shoes? If you were starving and less than a mile away was a land where it was illegal to pay less than tripple what you get payed, what would you do?
'Course most of you probably don't care about the lives of millions of others.

[Desert_Eagle]

PC99, do you support illegal immigrants, meaning those that knowingly break the law to gain entry into our country? What other law breaking activites would you condone?

I would condone any law-breaking activities that are bad based on bad laws, such as anything drug-related. Yes it's a "crime" to come here "illegally" (circular definition) but thats what we're debating, our immigration policy.

And yes, the action can precede the change in law and still be morally right. Law does not dictate righteousness.

If they paid taxes I could care less, but they don't. Half their money goes back to Mexico anyways to support their family. Now I'm not saying "Send them all back to Mexico!!" No--There has to be a balance to things.

Yeah thats the bullshit part. Any immigrant groups who support the idea that illegal immigrants shouldn't have to register or pay taxes should themselves be thrown out of the country.

This "send money back to Mexico" bullshit has got to stop.

Myself, I think that the government and the people have left the problem alone for far too long, so that the only reasonable solution, deportation (it's worked for essentially all other nations with illegal immigration problems), is no longer viable. If we had just gotten rid of them as they came in, it would remove the incentive of "it's very easy to get into and stay in the U.S.", and this probably wouldn't even be an issue right now.

Which makes you wonder why all of a sudden it's becomming a big issue. I think it's a distraction from bigger problems like Iraq.

They do contribute to the economy, but they contribute the same bit that US citizens would contribute if they were the ones who had the jobs.

Thats equivalent to nothing, since I don't see any white people working in the fields picking cotton and harvesting fruits. Americans contribute pretty much nothing to this besides buying the product. Labor-wise, there is no American presence.

Could it be that the Mexicans have taken all the good all-day-sweating-in-the-hot-sun jobs? Or could it be that Americans simply don't want these jobs, and don't apply for them in the first place?

It would be interesting to find some statistics about how many jobless Americans actually applied for these kinds of jobs.

[SarahK]

Send illegal immigrant Desert Eagle back to Blizzforums!

[Desert_Eagle]

My country is in turmoil at the moment :)

[GenocideAlive]

I would condone any law-breaking activities that are bad based on bad laws, such as anything drug-related. Yes it's a "crime" to come here "illegally" (circular definition) but thats what we're debating, our immigration policy.
There's nothing circular about it being a crime to cross our borders without proper authorization. I'm more than willing to see any logic statements you can form proving that this is circular logic.
And yes, the action can precede the change in law and still be morally right. Law does not dictate righteousness.
Yes, I'm not really a fan of the "morality" definition either. I don't particularly care if these people are "bad people" for what they do, I simply care that they're breaking the law and causing problems.
Which makes you wonder why all of a sudden it's becomming a big issue. I think it's a distraction from bigger problems like Iraq.
I think so too, I think Bush called 1M immigrants and told them to leave their jobs and protest. I think he has their phone numbers from illegal wiretaps anyway.
Thats equivalent to nothing, since I don't see any white people working in the fields picking cotton and harvesting fruits. Americans contribute pretty much nothing to this besides buying the product. Labor-wise, there is no American presence.
Besides your blatant anecdotal evidence, I point to the ever-present orange juice commericals that show white guys passing out cartons of OJ to women in the grocery store.
Could it be that the Mexicans have taken all the good all-day-sweating-in-the-hot-sun jobs? Or could it be that Americans simply don't want these jobs, and don't apply for them in the first place?
Or could it be that the influx of dirt-cheap labor from Mexico has Americans running these farms are paying so little that the only people that could benefit from them are those that don't own or have to pay for any property in America? An apartment alone is at least $400-600, plus bills. Whom is going to be able to afford that on $5/hr? A Mexican immigrant living with 7 other guys in a 1-bedroom apartment that pays $50 a month, that's who.

Basic supply and demand--why pay somene minimum wage and health benefits when you could hire some dude from Mexico who'll get the same care when you call the ambulance? Hell, they'll deport him but he'll be back in a week, smiling and willing to work.

And of course the employers love it because they can "adjust" the report of their costs on tax forms. Taxing their work isn't going to help shit, given the drain that another 1-2M low-income people will force onto the present welfare/healthcare system.

[Protosschick99]

Guess what ya'llz?

I just found out a few days ago that a friend of our family got deported back to Mexico. >.<

And he's MARRIED with two girls!!! He owns his own business and everything!! >.<

I gotta go do some Mother Day stuff, so when I get back, I'll give ya'llz the details :(

[UnHoly-Assassin]

There's nothing circular about it being a crime to cross our borders without proper authorization. I'm more than willing to see any logic statements you can form proving that this is circular logic.
I think he was trying to say that you're arguing using the law, but one of the issues are reasons behind the law and the usefulness of it. Because if these issues are recognized, it may lead to changes in the law.
Besides your blatant anecdotal evidence, I point to the ever-present orange juice commericals that show white guys passing out cartons of OJ to women in the grocery store.
If there were an abundance of Americans willing to work for cheap pay, then farms such as this one (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1103farmersOLP03a1.html) would not be having trouble finding workers. Also, I doubt that you should refer to American TV commercials to make a point about immigrant farmers who are not the ones that operate the land. You know as well as I do that most of the farmlands are operated by whites, however a large portion of the workers are undocumented.
Or could it be that the influx of dirt-cheap labor from Mexico has Americans running these farms are paying so little that the only people that could benefit from them are those that don't own or have to pay for any property in America? An apartment alone is at least $400-600, plus bills. Whom is going to be able to afford that on $5/hr? A Mexican immigrant living with 7 other guys in a 1-bedroom apartment that pays $50 a month, that's who.
And the problem is? There are people who complain that their jobs are taken away by illegal immigrants, and there are people who complain that if the illegal immigrants are taken away their profits will plummet. Either way, you can't satisfy everyone, but at least if the latter is satisfied there will be two happy groups instead of one. Workers are paid what they are worth. Most this happens because of American's fear of competition.
And of course the employers love it because they can "adjust" the report of their costs on tax forms. Taxing their work isn't going to help shit, given the drain that another 1-2M low-income people will force onto the present welfare/healthcare system.
Yes, I agree employers are partly to blame for the large imports of illegal immigrants. If they would simply refuse to accept them as workers, most of the illegal immigrants would go back. But who can resist less costs? Certainly not the same people as those of us that download free songs from a ptp client. But regardless, the employers are to blame on this one.

I think you're seeing illegal immigrants as this stereotypical type of illiterate barbarians who are unwanted people we need to constantly and expensively take care of. Those immigrants can form their own busniess, they can pay for their own health insurance, and they can even be successful! I live in Chinatown, New York, and I suspect half of the people I see in the crowded streets are undocumented, however they live in moderate apartment buildings and have their own rented offices. I wouldn't make such a big deal if those that cannot live as honestly as they can are deported, but I get offended when hard-working people are out there trying to make their own busniess succeed and earn an honest living (excluding how they are here illegally) are slapped as unworthy, such as in this case (http://www.seneweb.com/news/article/2179.php).
Seriously--I don't support it. Yeah I am Mexican, but don't throw me in there
I just found out a few days ago that a friend of our family got deported back to Mexico. >.<
Yeah..it sorta stings when you find out that illegal immigrants can be someone you know, someone like one of your classmates or your neighbor or even one of your friends.

[Dark_Soul74]

If there were an abundance of Americans willing to work for cheap pay, then farms such as this one would not be having trouble finding workers. Also, I doubt that you should refer to American TV commercials to make a point about immigrant farmers who are not the ones that operate the land. You know as well as I do that most of the farmlands are operated by whites, however a large portion of the workers are undocumented.Yes, but there isn't an abundance of Americans willing to work for below minimum wage.

[GenocideAlive]

I think he was trying to say that you're arguing using the law, but one of the issues are reasons behind the law and the usefulness of it. Because if these issues are recognized, it may lead to changes in the law.
So basically what you're saying is, any time we find a law in question it's time to break it then discuss whether or not it's a "good" law. We need to keep tabs on those whom cross our borders; whatever "issues" you want recognized is done facing forward in Congress. Not some sort of post facto morality debate facing away from the crime.
If there were an abundance of Americans willing to work for cheap pay, then farms such as this one (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1103farmersOLP03a1.html) would not be having trouble finding workers. Also, I doubt that you should refer to American TV commercials to make a point about immigrant farmers who are not the ones that operate the land. You know as well as I do that most of the farmlands are operated by whites, however a large portion of the workers are undocumented.
Do you think I was being sarcastic? I think so, given how obviously flawed using TV commercials as a source for my argument. Either way, if farms can't find workers, they need to increase their pay or discuss subsidies with the government. Breaking the law by using unregulated, untaxed, and illegal aliens isn't a solution, it's a criminal act. The fact that it's widespread is irrelevant.
And the problem is? There are people who complain that their jobs are taken away by illegal immigrants, and there are people who complain that if the illegal immigrants are taken away their profits will plummet. Either way, you can't satisfy everyone, but at least if the latter is satisfied there will be two happy groups instead of one. Workers are paid what they are worth. Most this happens because of American's fear of competition.
So let's see, you reprimand my point by using a counterpoint held by those whom are party to the crime. Gee, I wonder if they're a little biased in their opinion, George. Sorry, but "break the law, evade taxes, ignore humans rights, then see how we can make it a norm" isn't a feasible alternative.
Yes, I agree employers are partly to blame for the large imports of illegal immigrants. If they would simply refuse to accept them as workers, most of the illegal immigrants would go back. But who can resist less costs? Certainly not the same people as those of us that download free songs from a ptp client. But regardless, the employers are to blame on this one.
Yes, whom could resist less costs? Sort of like, whom could resist stealing a camera? Whom could resist rape? Whom could resist ripping off food when they're hungry? Whom could resist punching someone in the face when they feel slighted? Whom could resist?

In the face of a lawless society, that's a very interesting philisophical question. However, in the US there are laws and we as a country are very interested in those whom can't resist. You will be caught, tried, and then jailed. Employers that want to cut corners by breaking the law in abusing workers from other countries labor pool and not reporting taxes need to be jailed. And if you get caught downloading music on a PTP client, you go to jail or get sued--and nobody says "something's wrong with the law!!1!1!1"
I think you're seeing illegal immigrants as this stereotypical type of illiterate barbarians who are unwanted people we need to constantly and expensively take care of. Those immigrants can form their own busniess, they can pay for their own health insurance, and they can even be successful! I live in Chinatown, New York, and I suspect half of the people I see in the crowded streets are undocumented, however they live in moderate apartment buildings and have their own rented offices. I wouldn't make such a big deal if those that cannot live as honestly as they can are deported, but I get offended when hard-working people are out there trying to make their own busniess succeed and earn an honest living (excluding how they are here illegally) are slapped as unworthy, such as in this case (http://www.seneweb.com/news/article/2179.php).
I don't give a fuck what the stereotype is or whatever else you want to make up to obfuscate the issue. They're here illegally, they drain our public welfare programs, and they take a part of a system to which they do not contribute. If they flush a fucking toilet, they're using public works. And regardless of what your anecdotal evidence is, the facts don't change.

[frazz]

That's lame PC, he owned a business? At least his kids got to stay here.

Also, to all of you who don't like illegals sending their money to their families(who happen to be in mexico)...
It's Their Money!!!

[Dark_Soul74]

It's Their Money!!!
....that they obtained illegally.

If I robbed a bank, would I be able to keep the money?

[ScottieIWU]

Guess what ya'llz?

I just found out a few days ago that a friend of our family got deported back to Mexico. >.<

And he's MARRIED with two girls!!! He owns his own business and everything!! >.<Were the children born in the US? Because if not, he has no right to be in this country.

Also, isn't owning a business as an illegal immigrant kind of asking for trouble? Is it even possible? You have to file taxes and do all kinds of things that would require identification, and to be able to get away with starting a business without even a visa seems nigh-impossible. I mean, if he wasn't filing his taxes on a business he owns that seems like tax evasion (among the other crime of entering our country illegally).

[GenocideAlive]

That's lame PC, he owned a business? At least his kids got to stay here.
Yes, "lame" indeed.

"Lame" that he managed to compete with legitimate businesses, while possibly forcing them OUT of business with his illegal unfair practices. Oh wait, you were making some sort of appeal to emotion, weren't you?

[Protosschick99]

You ppl are jumping to conclusions when you don't even know the details :P I told ya'llz I'd explain when I get back.

Alrighty--He moved here when he was one years old. And he's lived here all his life. It never crossed his mind that his parents never took care of his paperwork. Well, years later, he got in trouble with the law and went to jail for a couple years.

After he got out, he cleaned up, started his own business, (And yes he paid taxes) became prosperous, got married to a beautiful american woman, had two girls, and has a very good life over all :) Keep in mind he's lived here all his life so he is fluent in english and spanish, you can't even tell that spanish was his first language!

Well, the government ppl were going through a certain list they had. Nowadays, if you are an illegal, and you get in trouble with the law--They immediately send you back to where you came from no IF'S, AND'S, or BUT'S.

So--Since his paperwork wasn't taken care of, immigration came to his house, picked him up, and deported him! It didn't matter that he was married and had two daughters--You'd think he would be okay because he got married to an American!

Guess not.....My parents are really upset about this....Cuz it sucks ya know?

It's like the government deporting my mom because she was born in Germany. Why was she born there? Because my grandpa was stationed there during his service in the Army. If my grandparents had never taken care of her paperwork, immigration could come and take her away even though she's lived here all her life practically, even though her ethnicity is Mexican, and even though she is married.

She doesn't even speak German except for a few words here and there--She speaks perfect english!

Anywayz....I'm just shocked the government would do this even though he was married. If he wasn't--I understand--But he is! And now his wife is left here in Cali running all the businesses they own. Talk about hardcore stress :(