Rights of Cits and Non-cits

[100thlurker]

Should noncitizens be able to have the same rights as a citizen?

That is the question of this debate. Illegal immagrants don't count. No spamming, no Flaming (clear on this one?), etc. You get the point.

I don't beleive non-citizens should have the same rights as a citizen since there is a only a handfull of priviledges offered by citizenship. Here are those main differences.

The ability to serve in all governement positions. An exception to this rule is presidency, which is restricted by your place of birth. A real biggee.
The right to bear arms. Personally, this ones a tad iffy. It mainly applies to those states that allow guns in the first place.
Privelidge to vote. A big one, yes?

[sololop]

Non citizens do not have those rights, because they shouldn't. They should not be allowed to be able to vote or bear arms, or any others that they do not have. I am not too clear on the difference of rights that they have, but my opinion os only real citizens should be able to benifit their country.

[frazz]

Yes, Canadians should not be aloud to vote unless they switch citizenship. The right to bear arms is a little different, but I think all is fair with the current rules.

[Prozerran]

Should noncitizens be able to have the same rights as a citizen?

That is the question of this debate. Illegal immagrants don't count. No spamming, no Flaming (clear on this one?), etc. You get the point.

We should do away with citizenship altogether and become a unified global entity, but not everyone agrees with me on this one.

I don't beleive non-citizens should have the same rights as a citizen since there is a only a handfull of priviledges offered by citizenship. Here are those main differences.

I disagree with you that non-citizens should not be granted those same rights. If the United States has a goal to remain the only Global Power of this planet, they better get cracking on a way to unify the citizenship of those in other countries with our own citizenship. Otherwise, we're just another Rome.



The ability to serve in all governement positions. An exception to this rule is presidency, which is restricted by your place of birth. A real biggee.
The right to bear arms. Personally, this ones a tad iffy. It mainly applies to those states that allow guns in the first place.
Privelidge to vote. A big one, yes?


You never know, a foreigner may be preferable to what we have now in the White House.
The right to defend oneself is inalienable. Get rid of guns altogether if you're 'iffy'.
Again, I'll bring up the fact that being the only global superpower left, and especially since we've policed the world for the past 30 years, I'd say we ought to give foreign nationals some voice in their future "leaders."

[Neo]

I would prefer that non-cits not be allowed to vote or to buy guns and such, but I do believe that certain rights should be applied to non-cits, so that they can't be taken advantage of and such.

But voting? Seriously. That would be like me voting for the PM in England, I wouldn't know who to vote for, what issues are important, etc... so why should some dude from Japan (for example) get to vote in US Elections?

I dunno.

This is kind of an odd thread, what exactly is the point if we aren't talking about illegal immigrants?

-Neo

[Desert_Eagle]

But voting? Seriously. That would be like me voting for the PM in England, I wouldn't know who to vote for, what issues are important, etc...

Well most Americans don't know who to vote for or what issues are important either so they shouldn't really be allowed to vote for the president either.

so why should some dude from Japan (for example) get to vote in US Elections?

Who knows, wouldn't be all that much differant than a US citizen voting as far as knowledge of politics.

[Protosschick99]

I do not think that non-citizens should enjoy the same privilages as citizens. They come to this country illegally, get a job (Which is good for them, they gotta eat) and then they enjoy all the benefits we have and don't pay taxes?

There is a price for freedom. Yes I know they make up a huge part of our workforce--So we can't just kick them out. Cuz seriously, the average american isn't about to do the things that illegals would do. But this is beginning to be a huge problem. We are getting more and more illegal immigrants everyday.

If we can't keep out the immigrants, it'll be that much easier for terrorists to sneak through. I'm not in agreement with illegals taking our benefits, it kinda annoys me.

My parents are not illegal, my grandparents are not illegal, and my great grandparents--They are another story, lolz. But then again when I think about--Why am I here in the states? Because my grandparents on my dad's side came here illegally and then my great grandparents on my mom's side came here illegally. They all are citizens now--But it took time. (Yes my family is from Mexico.)

[Desert_Eagle]

I do not think that non-citizens should enjoy the same privilages as citizens. They come to this country illegally, get a job (Which is good for them, they gotta eat) and then they enjoy all the benefits we have and don't pay taxes?

Many corporations don't pay taxes. Also, what would you say about unemployed people? Should they receive benefits when they don't pay taxes? What about welfare recipients?

There is a price for freedom. Yes I know they make up a huge part of our workforce--So we can't just kick them out. Cuz seriously, the average american isn't about to do the things that illegals would do. But this is beginning to be a huge problem. We are getting more and more illegal immigrants everyday.

What kind of "things" are illegal aliens doing?

If we can't keep out the immigrants, it'll be that much easier for terrorists to sneak through. I'm not in agreement with illegals taking our benefits, it kinda annoys me.

What about people who don't work?

And terrorists don't have to go to Mexico, they can hop on a plane and fly right here.

[Protosschick99]

Many corporations don't pay taxes. Also, what would you say about unemployed people? Should they receive benefits when they don't pay taxes? What about welfare recipients?

What about unemployed ppl? They can get a job, and they have the freedom to not have one or have one. And for those on welfare--If they are citizens and they need it badly, well then it is the governments responsibility to take care of them. I know there are those out there who lie and steal money from the government through welfare--But if you are not a citizen and you are getting welfare--That is my money, my tax paying dollars that go to you when you aren't even from this country.

What kind of "things" are illegal aliens doing?

Seriously--The average American is not about to work in a fast food store regularly, do manual labor regularly, or be under paid and taken advantage of which most Americans do to illegals and I think that really sucks. They do the jobs that nobody wants because they need the money to live and to send back to their families wherever they are from.

I'm not saying illegals are dirty okay, so don't twist my words in any way trying to make it seem so.

What about people who don't work?

You already asked me that :P

And terrorists don't have to go to Mexico, they can hop on a plane and fly right here.

You never know :rolleyes: Besides, your sentence here doesn't quite make sense :P

[Desert_Eagle]

What about unemployed ppl? They can get a job, and they have the freedom to not have one or have one. And for those on welfare--If they are citizens and they need it badly, well then it is the governments responsibility to take care of them. I know there are those out there who lie and steal money from the government through welfare--But if you are not a citizen and you are getting welfare--That is my money, my tax paying dollars that go to you when you aren't even from this country.

Well that is certainly a self-contradiction. Your reasoning is that illegal immigrants are "bad" because they allegedly use government services without paying taxes. When provided an example of another group which does the exact same thing you make excuses.

You never know Besides, your sentence here doesn't quite make sense

Which part are you unsure about?

[Neo]

Considering that all the 9/11 hijackers came in through canada, I don't think mexico is the problem.

Well most Americans don't know who to vote for or what issues are important either so they shouldn't really be allowed to vote for the president either.
Yes but that is beside the point. Many americans don't vote anyways, and most could care less. Those that do vote usually have some idea -- even if its unfounded or stupid -- on who they are going to vote for.

Some person from another country should have no right to vote for someone here in the US. Some dude from japan doesn't have any rights to come in and vote for the superintendent for the school system around here -- nor should he be allowed to vote for congressmen, or the president.

For example, do you get to vote for a mayor for a town in california if you live in New York?

-Neo

[Desert_Eagle]

I agree that non-citizens shouldn't be able to vote but I was demonstrating the fallacy of the statement "people here know the issues" when really thats not the case.

[Neo]

I agree that non-citizens shouldn't be able to vote but I was demonstrating the fallacy of the statement "people here know the issues" when really thats not the case.
Still. Thats pretty common, I would never argue that every american who votes (even) knows the issues, but I doubt every person who votes anywhere knows the issues.

-Neo

[Desert_Eagle]

I would venture to say that a good portion of Americans aren't properly informed of the issues citing the outcome of the 2004 presidential election.

Does the USA PATRIOT Act go too far?
Date = Too Far // Not Too Far
Apr 2005 = 45% // 49%

What do you know about the USA PATRIOT Act?
Date = A Lot // Some // Not Much // Nothing
Apr 2005 = 13% // 28% // 28% // 29%