Death

[SpeedyWorm1]

As I am very bored at the moment, I would like to ask an important question, that has probably been debated by scientists for quite a long time. What comes after life? As a christian, I believe we go to heaven. However, there are many different opinions out there in the world, and I would like to hear them, and see what people may have to back them up. Personally, I don't think there's really proof to any of the theories, its just faith. Ideas?

[Spartan-II]

I beleive you die, and your body decomposes. People beleive in religion because they can't accept that their life meant nothing. When we die, we rot in the ground. The End!

[Nickodemus]

I believe you have some meaning to life. Some greater goal you are to accomplish. YOu are here for something. If there isn't a purpose then why? why are you here? What are you doing? Maybe you wont go to some heaven or hell. maybe you will move on to another plane. Maybe you will start over. Who knows. But there has to be a purpose for it. But hell, thats just me.


I'm going to move on. Learn what i did wrong. ANd ask for a redo. Go and try again I think, if i am given that option.

[Frattimonde]

I've begun to find reincarntion quite intressting, do good karma and recevie a better life in the next, do bad and well...Fall real deep down in the next life. But yet, I still believe that "god" might give you a choice if you wish to be reincarnated once again or go where ever else you may be allowed to go. So that seems as a more reasonable way of redemption, chose a new life and do better rather than just being banned to the lower planes. I just dont like the idea of being sent to hell without a second chance, so that Is what I think at least. As for myself, I think I shall not chose to be reincarnted and walk this world after as an oberserver, If I'm allowed to chose that.

And so on...

[kongurous]

I believe in something similar to what Fratt believes. I think if you were good in life, you will be given a better life... until Jesus comes back. I don't like the idea of rotting in the ground, and I don't like the idea of being a spirit for eternity, and sleeping for hundreds of years... sounds like atrophy and a crapload of worms. New body please!

[Yoda]

Dude, in Christianity, when you die, you're sleeping til Jesus comes back. There is no heaven until the Second Coming. If I'm wrong, don't make a big deal out of it, I don't really care anyway.



Yeah you are.

When you die, you go either to heaven or to hell depending on what you did with your life here on earth. That is the Christian perspective. Some people who called themselves Christians but did not act like that are probably in hell as well. "No everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but who does the will of My Father..."

Islam probably has a similiar setup I'm guessing, and in Buddism you get reincarnated each time with more favourable circumstances depending on how you spent your previous life. So if you were excellant, you would be a human in a rich family. If you were terrible, you'd become an animal. I don't know about other religions.

[Ragnarox]

If you were terrible, you'd become an animal.

I don't see whats wrong with being an animal. In fact you would have more freedom, imagine never being confined by social laws or money. Imagine never having to feel sorrow when you kill prey for food. That would be awesome.

Anyways, lets just say I believe in believing. When you die, what every death scenario you believe in will happen to you. If you don't have a death scenario, you get to pick a peice of paper out of the floating top hat at the end of the roadway and whatever scenario you picked happens to you.

[kongurous]

Yeah you are.

Like I said, I don't care so get down on all fours and start munching away:confused:

[Wehrmacht]

I really dont know what to think about death, because I dont want my life to end for another oh..... 90+ yrs..... would be nice to live to 100....
anywho, people always seem to think theres something after death, and I would like to agree with them, and religion is something that man created(with a few unnamed and undiscussed exceptions) in order to believe that there is something after death. For all we know, everyone is simple recycled untill the next time around, or maybe we do go to Heaven/Hell, OR maybe those two options dont exist because they are manmade? I dont know, neither do I really want to care. I just want to enjoy the Life I have right now and hope for personal wealth of some form later in life.

[Wick3d]

If there's something after life, I'm looking forward to it. If there isn't, well, I won't be there to care, will I?

[WeekendLazyness]

I don't think there's anything else. Think of it this way:
When you die, you're brain just turns off, and thus, your consciousness turns off. It's a lot like sleeping (when you're not dreaming). There's no awareness.

[Pisces]

in Buddism you get reincarnated each time with more favourable circumstances depending on how you spent your previous life. So if you were excellant, you would be a human in a rich family. If you were terrible, you'd become an animal. I don't know about other religions.

If you were terrible you would be sent to a dimension of hatred untill you die and are sent to another depending on what you did there. The human life is the dimension of suffering and therefore the best dimension to be in because emotional suffering is self inflicted you have full controll over your life.
A possible interpretation of a Buddhist belief in that Christians will be sent to the dimension where there is no suffering (exactly the same as their concept as heaven, except you can die), one of the worst dimensions to be in because there is no desire for enlightment, only hatred which is spawned from jealously of others happiness. But once the Christians have died there they would be reborn evolved knowing that their desires for happiness causes their own suffering. Though none of those have anything to do with Buddhism, those are some beliefs commonly attached to it.

I believe once you die you rot, I don't believe in a greater purpose for life, I don't believe those who die at birth were a tool for the living. I believe there is only one life and no greater purpose so you better do your best at making this life an enjoyable one and make your own greater purpose.

[whoman_human]

I also don't think there is a bigger purpose for life. If you die then your brain will just stop and your body will rot under the ground. I don't think that there is a "soul", I think people just invented those religous stuff that there is something after death, because they are/were afraid of one day not existing anymore! The only exception is that if you like drown and then get back to life with the help of those elektric things! :)

One more thing: If it would be true that if you die, your soul just gets "planted" into another body like the one of an animal or so, then how come you wouldn't have any memories of your past life?:confused:

[Neo]

For those of you who say there is nothing after death, I would be interested to know what your take on past lives are. I mean, people do seem to have had them and such.

And I would personally rather believe that we have a sort of "karmac cycle" of being reincarnated and such depending on our previous actions... or some such.

I also think that assuming your inner being resides only in your brain is a bit much. People have come back from being truly dead -- if there was truly nothing afterwards how the hell did they get back?

Plus I just have a hard time believing that we only exist for one lifetime, and then poof we are gone. It just seems like an incredible waste of space.

-Neo

[whoman_human]

For those of you who say there is nothing after death, I would be interested to know what your take on past lives are. I mean, people do seem to have had them and such.

And I would personally rather believe that we have a sort of "karmac cycle" of being reincarnated and such depending on our previous actions... or some such.

I also think that assuming your inner being resides only in your brain is a bit much. People have come back from being truly dead -- if there was truly nothing afterwards how the hell did they get back?

Plus I just have a hard time believing that we only exist for one lifetime, and then poof we are gone. It just seems like an incredible waste of space.

-Neo I'm sorry, but what do you mean with "what your take on past lives are"? You would rather believe that there is some sort of "karmac cycle", thats what you like to believe because we(humans) are scared of suddenly not excisting (like I posted above) and that is why you rather believe that! If you believe in reincarnation, how do you explain that when we get new bodys that we don't have any memories?

Your asking: if there was truly nothin afterwards how the hell did they get back? Well you could also ask:If life has a bigger purpose, why did they die when they shouldn't have? And if they died and go to heaven, then wouldn't they, if they got back, break the purpose of life? I mean if they life for a purpose then they die(at the right time) for a purpose, right? Then if they live again they wouldn't follow the purpose. Anyway I believe that there is nothing after death, but I respect your views.:)

And sorry for my bad english!!

[SpeedyWorm1]

I think there has to be SOMETHING after death, because otherwise why would there be life in the first place? There must be some greater purpose, because why would we exist if there wasn't one?

[whoman_human]

I think there has to be SOMETHING after death, because otherwise why would there be life in the first place? There must be some greater purpose, because why would we exist if there wasn't one? We exist so we can have sex and produce new of our kind so that we won't die out. I don't know what other reason could be there. So I'm asking you what should the greater purpose be? I mean if you go to heaven or get reincarnated that isn't really a greater purpose is it?:confused:

It's late so I'm gonna write back tommorow after school..good night;)

[wraizyr]

One more thing: If it would be true that if you die, your soul just gets "planted" into another body like the one of an animal or so, then how come you wouldn't have any memories of your past life?:confused:
Perhaps because memory is not a function of the soul?

I mean if you go to heaven or get reincarnated that isn't really a greater purpose is it?:confused:
Keep in mind that those religions which teach an afterlife typically have a more fleshed out belief than just "heaven" or "nirvana". Stuff along the lines of atonement with God, or the abandonment of desire.

[Neo]

I'm sorry, but what do you mean with "what your take on past lives are"? You would rather believe that there is some sort of "karmac cycle", thats what you like to believe because we(humans) are scared of suddenly not excisting (like I posted above) and that is why you rather believe that! If you believe in reincarnation, how do you explain that when we get new bodys that we don't have any memories?

Your asking: if there was truly nothin afterwards how the hell did they get back? Well you could also ask:If life has a bigger purpose, why did they die when they shouldn't have? And if they died and go to heaven, then wouldn't they, if they got back, break the purpose of life? I mean if they life for a purpose then they die(at the right time) for a purpose, right? Then if they live again they wouldn't follow the purpose. Anyway I believe that there is nothing after death, but I respect your views.:)

And sorry for my bad english!!
I meant, what is your take on past lives period.

From people who find objects from thier past lives, or locations, etc...

I meant, because of stuff like past life regression -- even 'ghostly' activity, I find it hard to believe that we only exist for one lifetime and then we die and dissappear forever.

-Neo

[GenocideAlive]

I don't know. I'm both scared and excited to die--curious to the end, I guess. ;)

[frazz]

I think if you were good in life, you will be given a better life... until Jesus comes back.
Wow, Christianity meets reincarnation with no real reference to either.
Neo:
Past life regression = memory creation. It's kinda like with UFO abductions. You go through a lot of hypnosis cycles until your subconiese(spelling) makes a story about whatever it is you were trying to get. Also remember, if you want to remember something hard enough, you'll end up remembering something or other.

Apathy, what horrible plagues you bring on humanity.(Maybe I'll think up something more poetic later)

[wraizyr]

I don't know. I'm both scared and excited to die--curious to the end, I guess. ;)
Just remember to post the experience on WB as you shuffle off this mortal coil, then we can shut down all religiously related topics in IR forever and enter a golden era of online utopia. :D

[GenocideAlive]

Just remember to post the experience on WB as you shuffle off this mortal coil, then we can shut down all religiously related topics in IR forever and enter a golden era of online utopia. :D
Are you kidding me? FL would post immediately afterwards and claim it was entirely different and that Jeebus is still yet coming and we've all somehow misconstrued the "facts" with our partisan politicking.

[Dark_Magneto]

For those of you who say there is nothing after death, I would be interested to know what your take on past lives are.

Aah yes, past lives (http://skepdic.com/pastlife.html), aka. false memories (http://skepdic.com/falsememory.html).

[frazz]

Aah yes, past lives, aka. false memories.
HEY! that was my idea.

[Dark_Magneto]

Well congratulations. You are, in all likelihood, correct.

[Neo]

And you an explain how people find objects that they remember from their past lives (ie: a beloved heirloom from thier past life -- found 2000 miles away in an antique shop?) or remember locations -- almost perfectly -- when they themselves have never been there?

Actually, I tend to believe that, because of remote viewing, we aren't entirely corporeal. (skepdic has an article on that to if you'd like to link to it). I tend to believe in this more then other things because of how interested the government was and is in remote viewing -- and continue to use it.

At any rate. Talk about a biased site. I mean, I know its for skeptics, but I've seen skeptic sites at least try to remain biased O.o Besides any site that tries to discredit Cayce like that... its like half the articles are ok, and then the other half are almost violently anti-whatever the article is on.

-Neo

[frazz]

And you an explain how people find objects that they remember from their past lives (ie: a beloved heirloom from thier past life -- found 2000 miles away in an antique shop?) or remember locations -- almost perfectly -- when they themselves have never been there?

Yep. Memory creation. I can walk to the pawn shop and say This is my nugget from when I was a gold miner.

[Neo]

Yep. Memory creation. I can walk to the pawn shop and say This is my nugget from when I was a gold miner.
Pfft. And your the one who posts about faith all the time?

-Neo

[Dark_Magneto]

Actually, I tend to believe that, because of remote viewing, we aren't entirely corporeal. (skepdic has an article on that to if you'd like to link to it). I tend to believe in this more then other things because of how interested the government was and is in remote viewing -- and continue to use it.

Remote viewing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_viewing).


The process of remote viewing was first developed by Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff at the Stanford Research Institute at the behest of the CIA in 1972. The program -- initially codenamed Scanate -- apparently came as a response to Soviet research into psychic phenomena, on which the USSR was believed to have spent 60 million rubles in 1970. Initially, the project focused on a small number of individuals who appeared to show potential, most famously New York artist Ingo Swann.

The program went through a number of changes over the years, both in structure and in name. Later code names include Gondola Wish, Grill Flame, and in 1991, Star Gate. Over the course of twenty years, the United States spent $20 million on Star Gate and related projects. Over the course of its existence more than forty personnel worked on the project, including more than twenty remote viewers. Though the program was classified throughout its existence, columnist Jack Anderson wrote about it in the mid-1980s. It is worth to note that from 2003 the entire scanate/grillflame/gondola wish/centrelane programs documents have now been mostly declassifed (1% or less still classified) and are available to the general public under the FOIA.

Concerns about the program's effectiveness led the CIA to contract the American Institutes for Research (AIR) to provide an evaluation. Their final report included an endorsement from statistician Jessica Utts, who found the government psychics' 15% success rate statistically significant; and a rebuttal from noted skeptic Ray Hyman, who pointed to flaws in the ways the experiments were conducted and results were tabulated. AIR's final recommendation to the CIA was to terminate the program, which it did in 1995. According to the CIA, ESP has never provided data used to guide intelligence operations.


15% success rate is shit. I can easily get a success rate comparable to that given enough trials just by sheer chance alone.

[xodkrm]

When we die, we die. Its over.
Stop your fucking religion bullshit and take a step outside.

[GenocideAlive]

15% success rate is shit. I can easily get a success rate comparable to that given enough trials just by sheer chance alone.
...I dunno. 15% isn't too freaking bad. What is that, like 1 / 7?

[Dark_Magneto]

Just about. Although it was noted that the methodology was highly suspect,.

When you're dealing with national security, being right 15% of the time doesn't cut it. They'd be better off putting the capital and efforts into real spying operations.

[pixels]

hahaha, remote viewing was on Bullshit! (which is what it is)

also, there are no fairy tales in life. hallucinations of the mind, maybe, but no truth to them. or just bogus well put out stories. everything is cut and very very dry.

[Frattimonde]

When we die, we die. Its over.
Stop your fucking religion bullshit and take a step outside. And whom are you to bash those that do believe? Please tell me why we should stop our "f*cking religious bullshit"? Do you even have a reasonable argument or are your hands just typing while your head is not?

[frazz]

Xodkrm's been a bit spammy lately...
But if you have an argument(if you can call it that) I guess it's your right to post it.(and the mod's right to delete it)

[Weltall]

And whom are you to bash those that do believe? Please tell me why we should stop our "f*cking religious bullshit"? Do you even have a reasonable argument or are your hands just typing while your head is not?
I think he's bashing the use of the word death in this thread. If you don't know what I mean, then think about the definition of death.

Death means you're dead. There can be nothing after permanent death. The word death implies permanence. Death is the state of being dead. You can't go to heaven when you're dead, because when you're dead there's nothing left of you. One could of course go to heaven while being still alive.

[Spartan-II]

That's also contradictory to most (I beleive all, but I don't know every religion. :/) religions in the world. There are also different types of deaths. Some people beleive that while the body dies, the soul, or essence, of a person lives on and goes to heaven/hell to be rwarded or punished.

I don't beleive that. When someone dies, their brain stops functioning and so does everything else. They use religion as their crutch to hold themselves up because they can't beleive their life had no meaning. (Or because they were conditioned to, but that can be overcome.)

[Weltall]

Since there is only one of you, there is only one type of death for you. And that's death as you know.

[Weltall]

Bah, blame my internet connection. Or me. I thought it had a posting delay.

[Spartan-II]

I think you missed my point. Some people beleive the soul lives on. So in essence, while the body ceases functioning, the spirit lives on in heaven or hell.

[Neo]

Wow this thread has gone to hell.

In the future, please remember that this is IR, not the place for one liners, or spammy posts.

And you know, it wouldn't hurt to keep an open mind. If I take the time to read through all of that religious bullshit and at least entertain the idea that it might be true, you could do the same for those of us who believe in other things.

On top of that;

Correct me if I am wrong, but even a 15% success rate proves that something is going on right? That would be like me saying I only had a 15% chance ot win the lottery -- and won it. That means I won the whole shebang -- not like a couple dollars.

All that success rate proves is that the people involved were trying to hoax -- get free money, etc...

Besides. Deciding that something is false based off 1 article off a skeptic's site is kind of moronic don't you think? That would be like me believing in god because of 1 article from a christian fundamentalists site.

... oh and closed. I don't think this thread is going to go anywhere.

If anyone wants it reopened send me a pm with a legitimate reason, if enough want it reopened I'll do it.

-Neo