the best tier 1 defend?

[whoman_human]

Hey I was just wondering what is the best Tier1 defence? I don't mean the army or stuff like that but like the peons with the Burrows or like some archers and the moon wells. Just vote on the poll. Thx:)

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Clearly Moon Wells. Coupled with a DH, say you have two, if someone rushes you then that DH has an equivalent of about 1000 total HP, because each Moon Well heals 200 with its starting mana. Burrows are all well and good but vulnerable (heavy armour) and have to be heavily repaired if you focus them, often making a dent in someone's economy.

Militia also make a large dent in people's economy during a sustained attack which is why an Arcane Tower is so much better. If you had asked which is best overall, it would clearly be Militia - they can be used for creeping, attacking, defending - well, virtually everything.

[xodkrm]

I would have to say human, because of the peon's militia ability.
If you lose alot of peons it will affect your economy during the teching process, but were only talking about which race is best at defending tier 1.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

I would have to say human, because of the peon's militia ability.
If you lose alot of peons it will affect your economy during the teching process, but were only talking about which race is best at defending tier 1.

Nah - militia have nowhere to hide and while they're in millz form they're not doing anything for your wood/gold count, meaning it's more difficult to tech. Running in and out of the Hu base, luring Millz out and landing a few hits on them can do serious damage to a Hu player's economy.

[Yoda]

Moon wells out of those options. You can win with them in a fight even if the enemy force was significantly better with enough of them.

Although not on the list, towers are good defence as well.

[whoman_human]

Although not on the list, towers are good defence as well. I didn't put them in because not all towers are Tier1(?) I think the ones from the UD, but I'm not sure. How come nobody likes the peons and burrows? I think they're pretty good, because I creep jacked my friend with early ghouls and a DH and after that attacked his main but he somehow defeated my ghouls just with his peons and burrows. Anyway I also vote for Ne because of their Moonwells and because of their attacking buildings(forgot them in my poll)

[GroG]

I'd either say militia or burrows are the best racial defense. Period.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

I didn't put them in because not all towers are Tier1(?) I think the ones from the UD, but I'm not sure. How come nobody likes the peons and burrows? I think they're pretty good, because I creep jacked my friend with early ghouls and a DH and after that attacked his main but he somehow defeated my ghouls just with his peons and burrows. Anyway I also vote for Ne because of their Moonwells and because of their attacking buildings(forgot them in my poll)

All towers except for the Human Cannon Tower are Tier 1 buildings, and Arcane Towers are virtually always used by Human players in every decent game. They make a big difference but are easily taken down by a couple of Grunts/Wolves/Far Seer if you can catch your opponent unawares.

[cole]

Arcane towers arent easily taken down by grunts and farseer O.o. Unless you have like 3 or something and the tower isnt placed correctly.

[wa123]

If u dont count army, then I vote for Orc- peons and burrows, because peon can hide in and attack and repair if neccessary.

NE- moonwells - doesn't last too long at early.
Hu- peasants in militia form can still die off from hero
Undead- ghouls is alright to fight, similar to hu peasant in militia form, but is not too hard for hero to knock it down too.

only peon has the abillity to keep themself alive and attack at the same time.

[Revelade]

Removed.

[thefazant]

but the burrows are extremely vulnerable

[whoman_human]

but the burrows are extremely vulnerable

They are, but I once saw a replay were an Ud player did mass ghouls and creepjacked the orc. After that he attacked the main but got defeated by only some burrows! So I think it isn't that bad:shiftyl:

[silent_night66]

NE is the best, cos for orcs/humans/UD, you cant defend with your worker units and harvest at the same time. On the other hand, NE goldminers are safely tucked away, while the lumbers are all over the map in hidden spots.

[whoman_human]

NE is the best, cos for orcs/humans/UD, you cant defend with your worker units and harvest at the same time. On the other hand, NE goldminers are safely tucked away, while the lumbers are all over the map in hidden spots. And with the Ne workers you can't attack, but if someone attacks, lets say a humanbase, then he'll just defend with his probably same good army and his peasants in militia form. I think it's safer for your workers to stay in the camp then to be in "hidden spots", but everybody has his own oppinion!;)

[Yoda]

And with the Ne workers you can't attack, but if someone attacks, lets say a humanbase, then he'll just defend with his probably same good army and his peasants in militia form. I think it's safer for your workers to stay in the camp then to be in "hidden spots", but everybody has his own oppinion!;)

Its better to wall in your wisps with moonwells/other buildings than hide them all over the map in my opinion. Militia are good defence though, and attack for that matter.

[whoman_human]

This is off topic, but one question: Would it work to do an early rush with like 5 footman, one hero and some militia and win? Was this ever done or is it only for creeping and defending?

[Prozerran]

This is off topic, but one question: Would it work to do an early rush with like 5 footman, one hero and some militia and win? Was this ever done or is it only for creeping and defending?Meh. You can take Footies, Militia, and an AM and rush an opponent. When your militia turn into peasants, start building towers. You need an early lumber mill to do it, but I've seen it before.

But generally no. The reason you don't see too many people rushing with Militia, Footies, and a Hero is simply because Militia don't last long before they revert to peasant form. Towers are strong, but it's a risk and can end up losing you the game if you don't succeed.

BTW:

This poll is entirely weak in terms of defining defense. What is it that you're trying to discover with this poll anyway? If you want to know who has the strongest defense at Tier 1, it's Human with Militia and TOWERS. But you don't have that listed as an option. UD is next, then NE, and last is Orc (Burrows are easy to destroy). But it really doesn't matter. It's suicide to attack a well-defended base OF ANY RACE. In fact, letting someone turtle (with the exception of Human opponents) is giving them the win. No decent player is going to sit around and wait for you to build up your base with Towers and more Towers and then upgrade to Tiers 2 & 3 without making you pay for it in Economy, Experience, or by Containment. So it really doesn't matter who has the better defense because it's about the only thing that doesn't actually lend to defeating your opponent.

[thefazant]

the bad thing about militia is that you NEED to use them, human really is unplayable without militia creeping/defending/flanking, but you also cant afford to lose them until late game, cuz human is really dependant on lumber, and youre arcanes/workshop/t3 up will be slowed down a lot by losing a few militias.

[Lordshadowbane]

But burrows aren't exactly... durable.

Wells are nice but they really do poorly at tier 1.5-2.5 rush but since this is just tier 1, then my vote goes to Elf for archers/wells/ancient (why wasn't this on there?)/and entangled gold mine.

[Revelade]

Removed.

[whoman_human]

Meh. You can take Footies, Militia, and an AM and rush an opponent. When your militia turn into peasants, start building towers. You need an early lumber mill to do it, but I've seen it before.

But generally no. The reason you don't see too many people rushing with Militia, Footies, and a Hero is simply because Militia don't last long before they revert to peasant form. Towers are strong, but it's a risk and can end up losing you the game if you don't succeed.

BTW:

This poll is entirely weak in terms of defining defense. What is it that you're trying to discover with this poll anyway? If you want to know who has the strongest defense at Tier 1, it's Human with Militia and TOWERS. But you don't have that listed as an option. UD is next, then NE, and last is Orc (Burrows are easy to destroy). But it really doesn't matter. It's suicide to attack a well-defended base OF ANY RACE. In fact, letting someone turtle (with the exception of Human opponents) is giving them the win. No decent player is going to sit around and wait for you to build up your base with Towers and more Towers and then upgrade to Tiers 2 & 3 without making you pay for it in Economy, Experience, or by Containment. So it really doesn't matter who has the better defense because it's about the only thing that doesn't actually lend to defeating your opponent. I don't want to know anything except what you think is the best Tier1 defence from the builders and the burrows or moonwell stuff. Is that wrong to just ask for a thing without needing to know something??

And to the others: some defences aren't on it because I forgot them! If you want you can also post stuff like: my vote goes to Ne with archers and moonwells and an Aop.

[Lordshadowbane]

Um, what's this crap of "burrows aren't durable"?

They have 600 HP and 5 armor. That's more than a spirit tower, human tower (mason level 0) or a ancient protector, but equal to a moonwell. Please make some sense.
Spirit towers and ancient protectors and even moon wells have fortified armor. That cuts 1/2 of the dmg you take from normal/hero attack (pretty sure) and cuts 80% of piercing dmg. Wow so vs grunts/hunts/foots/ghouls, my well/spirit tower/AP take twice as much of a beating as the original numbers.
Spirit tower: 1100
Moon well: 1200
AP: 1200
And for range dmg... Well, it can take alot more dmg...
And the only thing burrows have over spirit towers/wells/and AP's is that they aren't as susceptible to glaives (who towers heavily vs Elf anyways?).

And wait, destros/dotts/sorcs completely tear burrows along w/ rifles/fiends/archers/dryads. While for the other buildings, they take alot more hits to destroy. But luckily magic based dmg isn't seen in tier 1 but range fire is still extremely dangerous.
And human towers are cheap, small size, spammable, and no big loss. While burrows are expensive, important, medium-sized, and they hurt your economy when you need to defend. And don't forget placement. Towers/wells/ziggs can be placed in the front while burrows need protection from melee but still are weak against range.

So, defend your reasons why burrows are obviously more durable.

[GenocideAlive]

Militia provides the best defense, but they're also the most vulnerable. Rushing out 5 peons from base often provides as much of a blessing as curse.

Burrows are great, but vulnerable to a quick smash.

And I just find the UD "base defense" hilarious.

Um, what's this crap of "burrows aren't durable"?

They have 600 HP and 5 armor. That's more than a spirit tower, human tower (mason level 0) or a ancient protector, but equal to a moonwell. Please make some sense.
And just ignore this fucking idiot. If he wants to ignore armor type to try to be cute, let him. He's obviously just desperate for attention. :rolleyes:

[cole]

Lets see how well burrows fare vs defended foots and WEs -_-

[Revelade]

Removed.

[wa123]

Lets see how well burrows fare vs defended foots and WEs -_-


orc's grunt and burrow are good enough to force ur little footy back home.

[Lordshadowbane]

orc's grunt and burrow are good enough to force ur little footy back home.
Theorycraft? Well, that's all I do now that I can't play often...

[cole]

orc's grunt and burrow are good enough to force ur little footy back home.

Lol this is a late post but i just saw it and wow its sad. You do realize that footys take hardly any damage from burrows thx to defend?