Satiini solo warden playstyle

[GroG]

What does everything think of Satiini's solo warden playstyle (mostly vs orc, but I've seen it vs UD too I think). Do you think anyone other than Satiini will start to use it? Anyone tried it with success? (Post reps if so).

I've tried it a few times, and gotten losses on everything but a 4v4rt with it (the first time I tried it actually). All the solo games I tried on ladder with it I lost. I'm sure it's a good strat, and probably hard to execute, but man it's crazy fun to watch it play out.

I also saw a few people use it in 2v2 replays off WCR. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, go to WCReplays.com and look for replays by Satiini.

Anyways, what do you guys think? Is it good? Map dependant?

Here's my shoddy 4v4RT rep using it.

[Prozerran]

Allow me to be the first to say... it's 4v4. What's the point in debating the strategy or watching the replay for that matter when the outcome of this game depends least on your solo warden use and probably has more to do with your synergy with the rest of your teammates? Wow. If you've got a nice 1v1 strategy with warden, let's see it. Otherwise, don't expect serious commentary.

[xodkrm]

Allow me to be the first to say... it's 4v4. What's the point in debating the strategy or watching the replay for that matter when the outcome of this game depends least on your solo warden use and probably has more to do with your synergy with the rest of your teammates? Wow. If you've got a nice 1v1 strategy with warden, let's see it. Otherwise, don't expect serious commentary.
Im a 2v2RT&AT player my self, and i sometimes find the games to be more challanging, because you have to blend in your play style with your team's play style and work together. You dont find that fun? :o You gotta try it..

And GroG- the warden "abuse" has been used since the beginning day of TFT. Pretty good, but sux during large-scale battles 60+food vs 60+ food.

[GroG]

prozerran, i want commentary on the strategy from replays of satiini. i only posted my replay because its the only example i had of me using it (because i lost all of my 1v1 games using the hero). you should start reading the entire post. i had assumed everyone knew of the strat and had watched satinni's games at wcr. if you dont know what im talking about, go to www.wcreplays.com and d/l reps of satiini, please.

[mAnbimanimanimA]

It's kinda funny seeing satiini beat people like Zacard now (and with a bit of originality too), when it seems like yesterday when he was still a RT-game-massing newbelf :)

I've only tried copying that once, failed. I should train it vs bigger newbs methinks ;<

[cole]

It's kinda funny seeing satiini beat people like Zacard now (and with a bit of originality too), when it seems like yesterday when he was still a RT-game-massing newbelf :)

I've only tried copying that once, failed. I should train it vs bigger newbs methinks ;<

Isnt he that guy that sometimes logs on lagzeroth to play with you? Coulda sworn he called himself that.

[Prozerran]

A high level warden seems cool enough, especially with Blinking around the entire map and dropping an Avatar Summon. My problem with it though is early on the Warden doesn't have the DPS late game that the DH has, making it almost better to stick to soloing with the DH for his ultimate over the Warden and her ultimate. Overall, from lower to higher levels, the DH is superior. Shadowstrike is nice when combined with Fan of Knives, but that really doesn't work until both spells are at higher levels.

A Warden and a Keeper are a better mix than simply soloing the Warden for Avatar - which needs higher DPS and Chaos damage to convince me to choose her over the DH. Nice replay, nice playstyle, but just not much in the way of potency. Imagine a Keeper Entangling, a Warden Shadow Striking, then Fan of Knives for the kill at early Tier 2 on a level 1 MK or TC.

[GenocideAlive]

I think it's a pretty cool idea that could use some exploring. But the problem is, of course, Warden level. Blink isn't worth dick until L2, so your Warden's potency is severely hampered until L4. Otherwise you're tearing off huge chunks of mana for nothing--whereas the Demon Hunter is good at L1, better at L2, great at L3, super at L4...etc. etc. But I agree--if you want to get after the FS/AM, do it with a L3 Warden--she's head and shoulders above the DH in terms of herokill.

Hell, screw nailing an L1 TC or MK, nail that L3 FS or AM--they've only got like 550HP vs. the TC/MK's 750. If they burn a TP all the better--Shadow Strike stays on after a TP and can still net you a kill via poison dmg.

Although, to be honest I think Blink is a very underused skill in WCIII. Very few people realize the extent to which that skill could be used and abused. Unfortunately, I'm not very good with NE in terms of macro, so my choosing Warden would need some work.

Especially vs. UD, whom are quite happy to nuke the bejesus out of her...I have difficulty seeing that as effective, especially with the DK's high HP and Coil floating around...

[RedRagToAnOrc]

I have a friend who uses solo Warden in RT to tremendous effect. We have a decent AT team going where we go Warden/BM/SH (Night-Elf/Orc) and he masses either siege or Dryads depending on opposition army types, while I go for the meat/kodos/bats if necessary.

Blink harrassing is fantastically fun. Potions of Invulnerability, Healing and Anti-Magic help out tons versus Undead and you can Blink out of surrounds etc, even when you have it at Level 1, using Shadow Strike - which is only 65 mana and is therefore spammable at Level 3 - to kill off workers.

I can see it working in solo, but only with a very good player. I remember one player who pulled it off against me once when I was playing Hu. He mass hid Hunts in my base and I couldn't leave to get Dust without him virtually destroying my army and economy. Scary.

[GroG]

yeah. and usually satiini goes for lvl 3 blink and lvl 3 ss before getting avatar. gl expoing ;/

once you get that orb of venom on her... it gets outta control. it looked like one hit and one ss killed a wyvern.. so yeah

maybe i'll try this out more, and lose more ;)

[GenocideAlive]

Well, here we have a L11 HU smurf on Badmanneroth. He random's HU and I random NE. It's a tight game all around, but he's cocky and I'm not one to quit. Long story short, L7 is a fucking beast.

[mAnbimanimanimA]

All you have to do is have her stocked up with mana and pray they don't get storm bolt / hex / disabling spells alike :F

Though antimagic /invul etc potions do work, hex is pretty much gg for warden ;(

[GenocideAlive]

All you have to do is have her stocked up with mana and pray they don't get storm bolt / hex / disabling spells alike :F

Though antimagic /invul etc potions do work, hex is pretty much gg for warden ;(
Actually, shit like Hex is preferred. I'd rather have to deal with a bit of disable rather than a fucking 350dmg beast.

[cole]

Well compare bolt to coil.. Coil is 300 dmg at level 3 with no stun, bolt is 350 dmg at level 3 with stun...with the same mana cost..Hmmm. Not to mention Mk will have nearly infinite bolts thanks to brill aura...

[wa123]

Well, here we have a L11 HU smurf on Badmanneroth. He random's HU and I random NE. It's a tight game all around, but he's cocky and I'm not one to quit. Long story short, L7 is a fucking beast.

I watched your replay, cool! so sad for that guy ran out of money, he desire a win from it, but lost at the end, sad for him.

[GenocideAlive]

Yeah, I've found that a lot of my Warden wins are very close. I'm not very good with NE macro, and it's always hard once they start rifle-sorcing. Of course, the standard NE approach is to go to bears, but I dislike going for cookie cutter strategies because I feel that my opponent will be most practised against it. I prefer strategies that force myself and my opponent to think on their feet.

[mAnbimanimanimA]

Actually, shit like Hex is preferred. I'd rather have to deal with a bit of disable rather than a fucking 350dmg beast.
Well, level 2+ hex leaves a lot of time to be focusing the shité out of that Warden, and hex disables item usage at all levels... It's almost like being stunned for so and so many seconds.

A 350 dmg beast would be storm bolt, and warden has trouble vs that one too, yessir. But as orc, hex is pretty much your only bet, and imo the best ss-blink warden counter :\

[GenocideAlive]

Hex is just a weak stun. You'll get critter'd for 4s...not exactly an emergency. That little bit of 100speed movement that you can get off with helps, and once you pop out of it Blink guarantees you'll be fine.

[mAnbimanimanimA]

But 4 seconds of getting focus fired with whatever orc has and not being able to use any potions.. ;o

[GenocideAlive]

But 4 seconds of getting focus fired with whatever orc has and not being able to use any potions.. ;o
Pfft. Melee units tripping all over each other trying to reach their target isn't scary. Maybe if they speed scrolled, started to try a surround, hexed, and then finished, it'd be scary. But even then, you'd get some warning with the speedscroll + surround movement to get your finger on that Blink trigger.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

As an interesting footnote, yesterday I watched most of the 4K/SK WC3L match, and Deadman went Warden - albeit not solo - and Naga second with Bear/Dryad in Game 1 of their three game series. It was a pretty awesome strat and I'd advise you to search it out, because... well, I can't be bothered. Game 1 of the Insomnia/ToD matchup is another one to be seen. In fact, it's probably the most nailbiting, addictive, incredible game I've ever seen, with an expansion siege, tomes of retraining, mass AoE and... oh my god. :P

[Yoda]

Well, here we have a L11 HU smurf on Badmanneroth. He random's HU and I random NE. It's a tight game all around, but he's cocky and I'm not one to quit. Long story short, L7 is a fucking beast.

Nice replay, the Warden is a better play than I thought after watching that. Pretty impressive that you never managed to lose it once (except in the beginning) despite all those sorcessers and the MK.

[Yoda]

Ok, I downloaded a game off wcreplays.com where Satini uses the Warden and gets it to level 10!!

Best game of tag, and Dota, ever. The Warden probably got more kills than the rest of his army! I've attached the replay to this post.

[whoman_human]

I didn't like the Warden as a Hero but after I've seen this/those replays it made me think different! I think I'm going to try it out sometime vs my friend and if it works I'll post my replay!

[GroG]

i know this hasn't been posted in in a bit, but just letting you guys know i saw the snippet over at wcreplays, and it seems Satiini left his clan LFAN.

i also saw that he might be playing in clan KoAo on azeroth (getting paid to do it or something of the sort).

just thought u'd guys want to know

[GenocideAlive]

I've been playing solo warden to mass dott's with cyclone, and I have to say it works freaking crazy-great. Once you get over there to the FS and start SS'ing him, you don't have to worry about building inferior archers that will later become levelling food. I no-units tech straight to tier 2, when I build 3 more wisps and get up two Winds and a shop. Then it's on to tier 3.

By that time their FS is usually around L2 for their push which fails miserably. You have plenty of money for HP pots / moonstones and when they FF the warden it just hurts them more. Finally giving you just enough time to get master talons and...fucking slaughter them--if they throw in a lot of cows to dispel, I just make chims.

But anyway, keeping a lot of killing-pressure on that FS early game slows their creeping WAY down. And it's not something they can just avoid, either--SS slow poison wears off just as SS cools down...so even @ even movespeed, you can SS him to death. TPs won't help and grunts / wolves are too slow to keep up with them when they start running. If he tries to summon wolves and grunt/FS/wolf beat on you, you can just run in circles until SS cools down and zap again. Run to moonwells, heal up, buy TP staff, zap dead, and TP staff home. It works so good.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

i know this hasn't been posted in in a bit, but just letting you guys know i saw the snippet over at wcreplays, and it seems Satiini left his clan LFAN.

i also saw that he might be playing in clan KoAo on azeroth (getting paid to do it or something of the sort).

just thought u'd guys want to know

I think that the idea of Satiini playing for KoAo is laughable, and most people on WCR agreed. Satiini deserves a much better clan than that - not quite 4K material, but better than KoAo.

[Yoda]

I've been playing solo warden to mass dott's with cyclone, and I have to say it works freaking crazy-great. Once you get over there to the FS and start SS'ing him, you don't have to worry about building inferior archers that will later become levelling food. I no-units tech straight to tier 2, when I build 3 more wisps and get up two Winds and a shop. Then it's on to tier 3.

By that time their FS is usually around L2 for their push which fails miserably. You have plenty of money for HP pots / moonstones and when they FF the warden it just hurts them more. Finally giving you just enough time to get master talons and...fucking slaughter them--if they throw in a lot of cows to dispel, I just make chims.

But anyway, keeping a lot of killing-pressure on that FS early game slows their creeping WAY down. And it's not something they can just avoid, either--SS slow poison wears off just as SS cools down...so even @ even movespeed, you can SS him to death. TPs won't help and grunts / wolves are too slow to keep up with them when they start running. If he tries to summon wolves and grunt/FS/wolf beat on you, you can just run in circles until SS cools down and zap again. Run to moonwells, heal up, buy TP staff, zap dead, and TP staff home. It works so good.

Can you please submit a replay? I'd like to see this. I'm not doubting that you've managed to do it, I would just like to see if and see if I could pull it off as well.

Heres a replay of me (trying to) imitate Satini, by soloing the Warden.




It was NE vs Orc. The enemy went the BM but never harassed me. I made a few AOW units before teching to bear/dyrad, he went hh/shaman. I creepjacked him, by accident at the fountain. The battle goes back and forth for a while, primarily due to the difficulty in breaking his base due to the mass towers.

He got his BM to level 6, I got my Warden to level 8 which was really fun.

[Yoda]

Ok, I forgot to attach the replay, its here:

[Prozerran]

Ok, I forgot to attach the replay, its here:There's a button at the end of your post that says "Edit". See it. Understand it. Use it.

It's also useful for attaching replays when you've forgotten to attach them before submitting your post. Thanks for wasting space :)

[Yoda]

There's a button at the end of your post that says "Edit". See it. Understand it. Use it.

It's also useful for attaching replays when you've forgotten to attach them before submitting your post. Thanks for wasting space :)

Your post was a greater waste of space. :smirk:

And for your information, the edit option when its the last post does not feature the "attach feature" option.

[Prozerran]

Not true. Once you select "Edit", you must select "go advanced" and the traditional edit window appears with (sound the trumpets) a "manage attachments" option below the text box where it is always located when you post replays.

[GenocideAlive]

The More You Know.
___________
_/ \_
_/ \_
/ \

That was supposed to be the rainbow thing, but this stupid forum edits "superfluous" spaces.

...I wouldn't be angry if a mod deleted my post. Maybe a little sad, though.

[Yoda]

Not true. Once you select "Edit", you must select "go advanced" and the traditional edit window appears with (sound the trumpets) a "manage attachments" option below the text box where it is always located when you post replays.

Ahh, ok. Thanks :)

[RedRagToAnOrc]

That was supposed to be the rainbow thing, but this stupid forum edits "superfluous" spaces.

Rainbow thing? I need to be enlightened, despite the fact that this is miles off topic. :shiftyr: