Most imbalanced thing about NightElf

[Yoda]

The Most Imbalanced thing about Night Elf


The Night Elf race recieves many complains from everywhere, most of the people who use them even thing that they're overpowered! One question I can ask is: what aspect do you think is the most imbalanced?

I'm going to say those stupid dyrads. They don't cost enough, and don't give enough XP. But most of all is "SLOW POISON." It should be made at least autocast and have the slow removed.

[Nedech]

I agree even tho i play NE, i must say the Moonwells seem to be the most imbalanced thing because it's impossible to rush them and gain 1 kill or so.. Also the Dryads, same reason as u said

[whoman_human]

The Most Imbalanced thing about Night Elf
I'm going to say those stupid dyrads. They don't cost enough, and don't give enough XP. But most of all is "SLOW POISON." It should be made at least autocast and have the slow removed.
yea...i agree...and that they are also immune to AoE spells!!:)

[Nedech]

I don't think the spell immunity should be removed, only the slow.

[whoman_human]

i meant that mostly because of the slowpoison thing and all the other stuff together(cost and spell immunity)

[Nedech]

I can't find any reason people think the Druid of the talons are imbalanced..

[RedRagToAnOrc]

I can't find any reason people think the Druid of the talons are imbalanced..

For me, it's an extremely difficult choice between Demon Hunter and Druids of the Talon. Why are Druids of the Talon imbalanced? Well, assuming your post wasn't sarcasm, (!!!) Cyclone is an absolute killer in any Night-Elf versus Orc matchup. For 150 mana, you get a 30 odd second disable. That's a lot.

Being an Orc player, I felt that Cyclone was far more annoying than the Demon Hunter. As well as that, you've got Faerie Fire, which allows complete sight within the radius of the unit it is attached to for 120 seconds. That is a ridiculous amount. The armour reduction is bad enough - and even Orc anti-spellcasters can't take care of both these spells completely because they aren't magic immune.

Sigh.

[Nedech]

Hmm, ok i get that. So is it lame using NE? Am i winning 60% just because im playing NE? >_> I didn't know people thought they where imba, i just thought the wells and dryads and why is the DH imba?

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Hmm, ok i get that. So is it lame using NE? Am i winning 60% just because im playing NE? >_> I didn't know people thought they where imba, i just thought the wells and dryads and why is the DH imba?

Sigh. I'm afraid that the general consensus among the upper echelons of WC society is that NE is sadly imbalanced. In Grubby's own words, playing with Night-Elf vs Orc;

"Is like shooting handicapped ducks in a barrel."

Demon Hunter is imbalanced because he can take away a hero's entire mana pool (and therefore spellcasting ability) inside 9 seconds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think MB's cooldown is 9 seconds. At Level 3, that's 100 mana the Demon Hunter uses to take away 300 on, say, a Tauren Chieftain - three less Shockwaves for the Night-Elf player to worry about. Secondly, because the Demon Hunter doesn't have many mana-consuming spells (assuming that you don't get Immolation, which hardly anyone does) until Level 6 - and even then, his ulti only costs 150 mana and has a large cooldown - he can just spam Mana Burn until it becomes useless.

This reduces the power of the Orc player, in the case of Orc/NE, to AoE the Druids of the Talon and thereby the Orc player generally has to use Demolishers, which are slow and cumbersome and easily focused down by Druids, or Wyverns, which are also easily focused down.

[Nedech]

Well.. Is orcs the only race they're overpowered vs? I knew all the things you said about DH but i didn't know it was such a big deal :F

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Well.. Is orcs the only race they're overpowered vs? I knew all the things you said about DH but i didn't know it was such a big deal :F

It's a huge deal, because it happens agaisnt every race. DK can't heal or nuke, Lich can't nuke or spam Nova, AM can't spam Water Elementals and Brilliance Aura only makes it worse, (because MB takes off HP in relation to how much mana was burned,) MK can't Bolt, Pally can't Heal - in fact, no hero can do what they're designed to do. It's relegated to a slightly-better-than-normal unit, with no spells.

See now?

[cole]

Well.. Is orcs the only race they're overpowered vs? I knew all the things you said about DH but i didn't know it was such a big deal :F

NE also rapes UD in most cases. On a tavern map the UD usually doenst have a chance. HU can beat NE alot easier than UD or orc thx to mortars and rifle caster tier 2 push but Orc has about a 20% chance of winning vs a good NE maybe less, and a UD has about a 30-40% chance of winning vs a ne of the same skill level. Orc has to REALLY do lame strats to beat NE which shows something right there...

Edit- Redrag also failed to mention the DHs insanely good DPS, speed, etc. Oh and hunts really should be added to the list. NE has made this mass tier 1 strat vs orc thats nearly unbeatable at higher levels of play.

[Nedech]

I saw Geno posting a mass ghoul/dreadlord strat vs ne, doesn't that work? Or does mass hunts beat that?

[Yoda]

I saw Geno posting a mass ghoul/dreadlord strat vs ne, doesn't that work? Or does mass hunts beat that?

Yes, I do that strat quite a bit as well in UD vs NE. Mass hunts would beat that since Hunts > Ghouls, but generally you will have a LOT more ghouls than they will have hunts. Sleep the DH upon seeing it as well to stop him killing your DL or immomulation killing your ghouls.

I won a lot of games as UD by massing ghouls, getting Level 4-5 DL, and fast teching to tier 3 for ghoul frenzy. Makes ghouls a whole lot better.

The main problem with Dotts is that orcs lack a good strong anticaster. They should have one which is IMMUNE TO MAGIC. Take etheral off Spirit Walkers and give them magic immunity would solve the problem of mass dotts instantly.

Dyrads should keep the Magic immunity and abolish in my opinion to keep them as a strong anticaster. Its just slow poison.... it should only poison and not slow, and be made autocast with a small mana cost.

[Nedech]

Meh, i feel so lame, i feel like quitting NE.. I didn't know they where THAT imbalanced.. It seems to me that everything about the is imbalanced :D

[GroG]

NE isnt imbalanced.. besides, whats ur rec in solo? if it was super good maybe they are imba

[Nedech]

My NE rec is something like.. 72/40~

[GroG]

do you feel like NE was the reason you won your games, or do you feel it was you playing who won? thats the difference.

[cole]

Its not really NE as a race thats imbalanced dd, its like certain things. Ive watched games of NE winning with nothing but a one unit mass and heros. Could this be considered balanced? Now with orc massing one unit in solo and winning is near impossible, if possible.

[Nedech]

do you feel like NE was the reason you won your games, or do you feel it was you playing who won? thats the difference.


Now that i read thos topic i don't know lol

[Yoda]

NE does require skill to win with. Nothing is ever a "free win" (except if you get matched with a lossbotter or someone who disconnects in the first 5 minutes). I won't win a match against 4k.grubby if I was NE and he wasn't, for instance.

[thefazant]

meh, i dont find theyre imbalanced, mainly because i dont see the point off whining about imbalances at all.

[wa123]

I agree even tho i play NE, i must say the Moonwells seem to be the most imbalanced thing because it's impossible to rush them and gain 1 kill or so.. Also the Dryads, same reason as u said

Moon well is a must to balance NE with other race, as they are too low in HP both in wisp and arch at early, even later with Huntress it doesnt improve much in HP, it must be there to keep it balance, I dont see there is a problem with it. Add

[wa123]

I saw Geno posting a mass ghoul/dreadlord strat vs ne, doesn't that work? Or does mass hunts beat that?

I must say that strat work really well against all race, Im not a good undead player, but I tried a few time with that mass ghoul/dreadloard strat, still need alot of work to master it, some time my oppon is better than me, but I still manage to get a win from it.
also this strat doesn't need as much micro than playing NE, bcos NE HP is too low I have to constantly pull back the low hp unit, where ghoul will gain hp back in attack, I will just attack enemy as if they r Taurant(forgot wat it call, I mean the big cow in ORC), that strat will work even betta with that heal machine support (4got the name again,that undead box machine b4 it become destroyer, can heal HP and manner)

[cole]

I must say that strat work really well against all race, Im not a good undead player, but I tried a few time with that mass ghoul/dreadloard strat, still need alot of work to master it, some time my oppon is better than me, but I still manage to get a win from it.
also this strat doesn't need as much micro than playing NE, bcos NE HP is too low I have to constantly pull back the low hp unit, where ghoul will gain hp back in attack, I will just attack enemy as if they r Taurant(forgot wat it call, I mean the big cow in ORC), that strat will work even betta with that heal machine support (4got the name again,that undead box machine b4 it become destroyer, can heal HP and manner)

Wow is this some kind a of a joke post? Is this geno trolling?

[Yoda]

Ok. I don't think that wa123 is someone's troll acount. Its really been here for a tad too long for that.

Hey, also wa123 I often use that strat. Heres a replay of me doing it:

[wa123]

Ok. I don't think that wa123 is someone's troll acount. Its really been here for a tad too long for that.

Hey, also wa123 I often use that strat. Heres a replay of me doing it:

thanks yoda, looking forward to see that replay once I'm off from work

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Wow is this some kind a of a joke post? Is this geno trolling?

No - what I don't understand is that he's from Australia and clearly doesn't speak a whole lot of English. That, or he uses so much 'textspeak' that it's almost like a different language to me.

Moon Wells are extremely imbalanced, by the way. Not so much as Druids or DH, but still imbalanced. They each start off with 100 moonjuice, that's 200HP for each one. They regain mana at night and say you have two by the time you get rushed, that's 400HP healing power plus Hide should you need it.

[GenocideAlive]

I saw Geno posting a mass ghoul/DL strat vs. NE, doesn't that work? Or does mass hunts beat that?
Mass hunts can beat it, but the problem isn't the Hunts or the DH, the problem is the Panda that they pick.

Inevitably, they'll mass dryads throw in a few bears and just get the DH and Panda to high levels. Attempting to Sleep the Panda nets an instant dispel, and he just Haze/BoF's 3x and wipes out two control groups worth of ghouls. If I spend 500 gold on two heal scrolls, I can keep my ghouls up for another round of Haze/BoF. If I pressure well enough and manage a surround, he'll just TP and moonwell up. There's no way I can replace 1.2k gold's worth of ghouls in the time it takes for him to click on a bunch of moonwells.

I can't even create a micro-deficit by spamming Sleep on units, because dryads are spell immune, dirt cheap, can dispell, and give shit exp. I've lost to a DH, Panda, and mass dryads multiple times for this very reason. I could try switching to gargs, but it would just mean that I can have half the number for half again as much in gold. Which means you die faster to Haze/BoF.

That strategy is heavily reliant on forming an early advantage and maintaining map control and counters. If you fail to do so because of a number of possible factors (creepjacks, (un)lucky positioning, etc.), then it's very difficult to maintain control and you could just as well end up screwed.

Dryads are generally what make-or-break these types of games. Their slow poison coupled with spell immunity and anti-caster capability generally means that I have very limited options for counters when considering the Haze/BoF nightmare.
Wow is this some kind a of a joke post? Is this geno trolling?
How old is this kid?

[Nedech]

Which also means that 50% of the reason that im winning is beacuse im playing NE, i was thinking of playing human but got bored to fast

[wa123]

No - what I don't understand is that he's from Australia and clearly doesn't speak a whole lot of English. That, or he uses so much 'textspeak' that it's almost like a different language to me.

Moon Wells are extremely imbalanced, by the way. Not so much as Druids or DH, but still imbalanced. They each start off with 100 moonjuice, that's 200HP for each one. They regain mana at night and say you have two by the time you get rushed, that's 400HP healing power plus Hide should you need it.

Dude, u r right, English is not my first language.

Ok. I don't think that wa123 is someone's troll acount. Its really been here for a tad too long for that.

Hey, also wa123 I often use that strat. Heres a replay of me doing it:

hey, yoda thats an awesome replay, you just out doom his army completely, some time it make me think this strategy is imbalanced…anyway well done, great win!

[Lordshadowbane]

Staff because it saves the DH.

[close.ads]

dots is the only imbal, as far as I am concerned, and it is only imbal against orc.
DH is not overpowered it requires micro. (but heck ya, 1 DH versus the whole UD army...I've done it once...)

[Yoda]

hey, yoda thats an awesome replay, you just out doom his army completely, some time it make me think this strategy is imbalanced…anyway well done, great win!

Thanks :) Hey the strategy relies more on suprise, if they scout its a lot harder. When they do that they make heavy air units which kill my ghouls very fast :mad: . But thanks for the compliments :D

Hey, close.ads, the funnest thing is having a high level DH plus orb + rejuv + Evasion verses an army of air.

[thefazant]

funny dh replay, where a single lvl 5 dh manages to kill 6 breakers and a lvl 6 mk without dying once