View Full Version : Teh Counter-Thread
xodkrm
02-17-2006, 3:10 PM
How to play: Just say which unit counters which.
Eg: Person A- Wyverns
Person B - Riflemen
Person C - Abominations
Person D - Gryphons
Etc.
Ill start:
Wyverns
thefazant
02-17-2006, 3:19 PM
outplaying youre opponent
Morkeliph
02-17-2006, 3:26 PM
This is moronic. It all depends on situation and combinations of units, etc. Good luck with this thread of yours...
lol, what unit doesnt beat wyvers.. Dual aow archer, AOE, rifle, WEs, Mass casters w/ summons, quills, and pretty much everything else except for most air.
xodkrm
02-17-2006, 11:52 PM
This is moronic. It all depends on situation and combinations of units, etc. Good luck with this thread of yours...
No. The situation and combinations of units do not matter at all. All that matters is the massing of one single unit.
madmarv
02-18-2006, 6:13 AM
I'd say, the FARSEER! if heroes dont count then, i'd go for troll headhunters, but for no specific reason :) what would be your counter xod
No. The situation and combinations of units do not matter at all. All that matters is the massing of one single unit.
massing one unit wont work against someone half decent unless hes a newbelf and he knows that broken error on that gayed map to make it where orc cant even get in the NEs base so the NE is free to do w/e the fuck he wants with little fear of being harrassed or even attacked and no chance at all of being towered. I wont mention the map if thats what youd call it.
hammocksleeper
02-18-2006, 11:37 AM
This is moronic. It all depends on situation and combinations of units, etc. Good luck with this thread of yours...
I think it's supposed to be more a form of entertainment than an actual bank of strategy tips...
Prozerran
02-18-2006, 11:59 AM
I think this could actually be useful. Maybe not for stupid posts like, "what counters Wyverns?", but if you've got a unit combination you think is ubergood and you want to see how others might try to counter, you post it here so you get an idea of what to expect if you're new.
Like so. Human vs Orc Breakers, 4 Sorcs, 2 Priests, AM w/ Blizzard, Tinker w/ Pocket Fact.
Orc counters with?
No brainer really, but you get the idea of how it could be done. Well, at least that's what I see this thread being useful for. I don't see why people don't just post a strategy and get the advice from there.
AM with blizzard wont do crap vs orc unless the HU is pretty good but what counters the strat you said above is... Grunt/SW/shamen(optional for ls mainly)/Catas with a few peons to repair along with fs tc.
I'll answer the question... and say dyrads.
Lordshadowbane
02-18-2006, 8:00 PM
You all are complicating this game. The answer is always DH or more DH's.
You all are complicating this game. The answer is always DH or more DH's.
You can only have one. And you have to say units not heroes. And the DH can't attack air anyway.
RedRagToAnOrc
02-19-2006, 2:59 AM
You can only have one. And you have to say units not heroes. And the DH can't attack air anyway.
*Cough* Orb of Venom *Cough*
What beats FS/TC/Grunts/SWs/Shamen/Catas/Peons?
Chippo. (Chimaeras/Hippos for those of you who don't know.)
There's an easy one to counter.
First one to say mass bats gets a slap.
I'll say mass gargs instead.
RedRagToAnOrc
02-19-2006, 6:06 AM
I'll say mass gargs instead.
Oh dear, we're getting into masses. Let's turn it down a notch. Warden/Panda/Archers/Dryads.
Can you just pick one, please? It makes it require much less thought :cool:
Mass bears
Lordshadowbane
02-19-2006, 8:59 AM
Can you just pick one, please? It makes it require much less thought :cool:
Mass bears
Wow this is the way the game will go. Mass melee, Mass heavy air, Mass range or light air, (and if the previous choice was mass light air, then mass range).
RedRagToAnOrc
02-19-2006, 12:40 PM
Wow this is the way the game will go. Mass melee, Mass heavy air, Mass range or light air, (and if the previous choice was mass light air, then mass range).
He's right. If this thread is actually going to work (which I seriously doubt) it will have to be more detailed combinations, otherwise it will follow the same basic formula over and over.
AM/MK/Gryphons/Casters
xodkrm
02-20-2006, 1:04 AM
Grunta-pult
Bats
FS (chain)
GenocideAlive
02-20-2006, 2:31 PM
AM with blizzard wont do crap vs orc unless the HU is pretty good but what counters the strat you said above is... Grunt/SW/shamen(optional for ls mainly)/Catas with a few peons to repair along with fs tc.
Why the fuck would you bother with that garbage? Mass wyvs tears that entire HU army to shreds, without the loss of a single unit guaranteed.
Why the fuck would you bother with that garbage? Mass wyvs tears that entire HU army to shreds, without the loss of a single unit guaranteed.
you think you can beat a half decent Hu with mass wyv? hahahah. Oh were you serious? Lets examine what beats wyverns..Slow, rifles, WEs, heros, quills, gyros when massed, engines and nearly everything else. Even if he did go that army that one guy mentioned, the hu could easily switch to counter wyverns even though what he already said can pretty much counter them. Wyverns are 265 gold so its not so easy to switch out of mass wyvern. But i mean seriously, if you lose to mass wyvs as hu then wow, just wow.
RedRagToAnOrc
02-21-2006, 4:52 AM
you think you can beat a half decent Hu with mass wyv? hahahah. Oh were you serious? Lets examine what beats wyverns..Slow, rifles, WEs, heros, quills, gyros when massed, engines and nearly everything else. Even if he did go that army that one guy mentioned, the hu could easily switch to counter wyverns even though what he already said can pretty much counter them. Wyverns are 265 gold so its not so easy to switch out of mass wyvern. But i mean seriously, if you lose to mass wyvs as hu then wow, just wow.
Don't forget Polymorph. AKM used that against one guy and his creepjack was rendered completely useless, because he didn't have any SWs. He was forced to TP out.
Lordshadowbane
02-21-2006, 7:47 PM
Bloodmage/DHawks or griphons completely destroys everything Orc has...
RedRagToAnOrc
02-22-2006, 10:47 AM
Bloodmage/DHawks or griphons completely destroys everything Orc has...
I'm afraid mass Bats totally pwns that. The BM can't keep up with all of them and Concoction takes care of all air units. Two food for a bat, four for a Gryphon. Two bats to a Gryphon more than takes care of Hu's entire army, and I believe one Bats takes down a Hawk.
In any case, the Hu won't have enough Hawks to shackle your Bats. Prioritise and explode the Hawks first, leaving more Bats free to mass suicide. Good game Hu player.
GenocideAlive
02-22-2006, 3:00 PM
Lets examine what beats wyverns..Slow, rifles, WEs, heros, quills, gyros when massed, engines and nearly everything else. Even if he did go that army that one guy mentioned, the hu could easily switch to counter wyverns even though what he already said can pretty much counter them. Wyverns are 265 gold so its not so easy to switch out of mass wyvern. But i mean seriously, if you lose to mass wyvs as hu then wow, just wow. OK, so let's re-examine the initial HU army.
Breakers, 4 Sorcs, 2 Priests, AM w/ Blizzard, Tinker w/ Pocket Fact
AM doesn't have WEs, there are no rifles, only one hero can hit air, quills aren't around, gyros aren't around, slow moving, slow firing engines (lol?) aren't around. Try again, noobs?
Not only are you so busy trying to look cool that you completely fail to read, but you also fail to comprehend. Frankly, the HU player is more than welcome to try to start pumping more sorcs that take upwards of 70 dmg / hit from wyvs (lol?), or rifles (chainwave fodder). Once you encounter that shit-assed army in the open field, you go straight for his base and VIOLATE his peasants afterward. Heavy armor towers = won't help.
Even if you somehow think your experiences > my experiences, you're more than welcome to watch high level replays of Orc harassing with wyvs even though they're "oh so easy" to counter.
...I really wouldn't count on breakers + 4 Sorcs' tier 3.5 Polymorph to save you from mass tier 2.5 Wyvs, but I guess there's a reason that you guys can't get past L25. GG.
Lordshadowbane
02-22-2006, 4:25 PM
I'm afraid mass Bats totally pwns that. The BM can't keep up with all of them and Concoction takes care of all air units. Two food for a bat, four for a Gryphon. Two bats to a Gryphon more than takes care of Hu's entire army, and I believe one Bats takes down a Hawk.
In any case, the Hu won't have enough Hawks to shackle your Bats. Prioritise and explode the Hawks first, leaving more Bats free to mass suicide. Good game Hu player.
lol not quite. Banish the bats, then ff w/ griphons. Or banish the Dhawks and shackle the bats/wyvs w/ only fear of FS CL. And HU usually has an expo to support his units unlike orc but even w/o one it'd be close.
GenocideAlive
02-22-2006, 5:01 PM
lol not quite. Banish the bats, then ff w/ griphons. Or banish the Dhawks and shackle the bats/wyvs w/ only fear of FS CL. And HU usually has an expo to support his units unlike orc but even w/o one it'd be close.
Meh, I don't even bother with Bloodmage...I just upgrade gryph armor to 3 and get Master Priests for Inner Fire and Heal. It takes ~5 bats to kill one gryph, the splash is ass, and the priests totally absorb the problems. A heal scroll and a scroll of prot only make things better (or worse).
Pretty much nothing short of equal food in bats (which works out to be way more $$$) will beat a HU mass gryphs, and only if the HU isn't ready for them.
It's really funny when Orcs let me have an expo and think they're evening things out. Nothing Orc has beats 3/3 gryphs short of mass paper riders, which dies to WEs, a bit of Slow, and Bolt.
Lordshadowbane
02-22-2006, 9:03 PM
Meh, I don't even bother with Bloodmage...I just upgrade gryph armor to 3 and get Master Priests for Inner Fire and Heal. It takes ~5 bats to kill one gryph, the splash is ass, and the priests totally absorb the problems. A heal scroll and a scroll of prot only make things better (or worse).
Pretty much nothing short of equal food in bats (which works out to be way more $$$) will beat a HU mass gryphs, and only if the HU isn't ready for them.
It's really funny when Orcs let me have an expo and think they're evening things out. Nothing Orc has beats 3/3 gryphs short of mass paper riders, which dies to WEs, a bit of Slow, and Bolt.
Do ppl still go Pally HL/DA/HL/DA/DA/HL w/ mass air/priest?
GenocideAlive
02-23-2006, 11:57 AM
Do ppl still go Pally HL/DA/HL/DA/DA/HL w/ mass air/priest?
Um, no. Usually that's only seen in instances where players are complete suicidal retards.
I played a guy who got to like 30 or something like that by doing some dumb shit similar to that. But his harass was basically bringing a Pally to my base and beating on a peon, at which point I'd just put him in a burrow and keep creeping. I'd end up with a L5/L3 FS/SH combo with his L1 Pally when gryphs came out, and needless to say L1 HL wasn't keeping up with CL, wards, and Hex.
The first time I played it I picked a TC second and went with wave, so I wasn't able to fight straight up very well. However, at tier 3 when he was trying to creep up his Pally with gryphs I proceeded to wreck a good 10 or so farms with two shockwaves.
Usually people don't pick pally for the sole reason that he can't counter mass air. The only thing they can try to do in response is mass tanks, which just plain doesn't work when people know it's coming.
Revelade
02-23-2006, 11:00 PM
What the crap?
No, you don't go mass tanks because you they take long to build and the upgrade is fecking long as well.
You go gyros with spread upgrade. If they are using heavy air, consider hawks. Anti air tanks are a joke.
RedRagToAnOrc
02-24-2006, 5:36 AM
You go gyros with spread upgrade. If they are using heavy air, consider hawks. Anti air tanks are a joke.
They're a pretty bad joke, too. Upgraded Barrage damage does a decent amount. I think it's about 20 per shot, I think it attacks multiple units (correct me on that?) and double damage due to attack/armour types leads to a good 40 damage per attack. Say you have 12 tanks, that's some damn good siege capability as well as 480 damage per round of shots.
GenocideAlive
02-24-2006, 1:18 PM
What the crap?
No, you don't go mass tanks because you they take long to build and the upgrade is fecking long as well.
You go gyros with spread upgrade. If they are using heavy air, consider hawks. Anti air tanks are a joke.
OK, so we were talking about mass gryphs; so obviously the length of time it takes to build isn't really an issue. And if they're using air or heavy air (other than chims), I'd WELCOME them to build more against tanks. I'll watch and laugh as I totally ream their base and they impotently try to stop or keep up at my base using magic / piercing damage against fortified armor.
They could try to wipe my workers and fly back, but it wouldn't matter. I'd go for the farms, then the key tech buildings (altar, mill, beast, etc.) and rebuild at my base with some towers while they try to wipe my tanks. Their entire production would be frozen, meanwhile I have plenty of time to put together some hawks/gryos/rifles/sorcs or whatever I felt like.
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