Ie7

[UED77]

All of you, I'm sure, have heard bits and morsels of info about Microsoft's long-awaited Internet Explorer 7. Well, as of today, the wishes of countless web developers came true, as there is now a beta to download (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/ie7/ie7betaredirect.mspx).

The user interface is... well... unusual. I believe lots of IE6 users will be unfamiliar with it. I can't say there is less clutter — it somewhat seems a bit too condensed to me — but there is definitely more browsing area. The tabs work, but they can't be rearranged. The font selection in the options is waaay too simplistic, asthere is no way to specify a sans-serif and a serif font, among other quirks. But at least you can specify a user stylesheet!

My overall impression is that it's definitely better than IE6, but still can't live up to Firefox or Opera (Safari I have never used).

As for the rendering engine, it has barely improved, and it still fails (http://uedworld.webhop.net/misc/images/ie7-acid2fail.png) Acid2 spectacularly. But hey, at least we have something that has a bit better standards support, and let's hope that IE6 can be replaced with it as soon as possible. But for those who already use one of the alternative browsers, I promise you won't be reborn as an IE7 fan.

UED77

[mcflurry_1982]

ive actually been awaiting the demise of ie. although thats probably when hell freezes over. but hey maybe by version 8 ie might be as good as ff 1.0

[TimP]

The rendering engine barely improved, and it still fails (http://uedworld.webhop.net/misc/images/ie7-acid2fail.png) Acid2 spectacularly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Firefox and Opera also fail Acid2. The IE blog said months ago that Acid2 was not a goal. It's not a big deal really because Acid2 has been passed off as a generally meaningless test. I'm going to wait a few days to make sure that it doesn't break anything (since it is beta) before I try it.

[UED77]

TimP, you're absolutely right. I should've probably put a newline between the two sentences; the two thoughts are distinct. In fact, I might just do that now. I was comparing my overall impression of IE7 with those of Firefox and Opera. As for Acid2, I remarked that it failed it, spectacularly — neither Firefox nor Opera get it that wrong, although they do get it wrong.

UED77

[AJ]

Indeed, everyone's beloved Safari can pass Acid2 as well.
But you're quite right in it not really meaning much. Just means it can handle several quirky issues (which isn't bad).

Anyhow, it looks interesting and will provide some new abilities in terms of web design, but we'll still have to support IE6 for quite some time.

[pixels]

/me yawns.

ie will always pale in comparison to opera

[Modred]

It looks like Avant (which is based on IE, I might add). Did MS take over Avant Browser without telling anyone? o_O

And they've been in beta testing for a while, this is just the first publicly available one. Back during Beta 1, there were conflicts between IE 6 and IE 7 shared resources that resulted in neither being usable. We'll see if more such problems creep up...

[Neo]

Indeed, everyone's beloved Safari can pass Acid2 as well.
But you're quite right in it not really meaning much. Just means it can handle several quirky issues (which isn't bad).

Anyhow, it looks interesting and will provide some new abilities in terms of web design, but we'll still have to support IE6 for quite some time.
And when Safari is available for the other 90% or more of us, I would be happy to try it =P

IE7, I believe, locks the toolbar/new interface look does it not? If I am mistaken please let me know.

I think that will be a major failing point. Breaking the standard windows menu-bars on the top is going to put a lot of people off, and trying to make it show "more of the website your visiting" is kind of... an odd reason.

At any rate, I really don't see how IE7 is going to 'out do' firefox, opera or others. Seems more like a copied list of features from Firefox/Opera/Other tabbed browsers. I am sure, also, that when IE7 is released they will either near-abandon it, or make it only for newer versions of windows like they did for for the IE SP, I'd much rather have a browser that gets patched // updated // worked on continously then one thats only existence is to try to breath life into a failing out-dated program.

><!!!

-Neo

[xodkrm]

OMg.
It wont let me install becuase "my windows xp is not genuine."

[TimP]

And when Safari is available for the other 90% or more of us, I would be happy to try it =P
Konqueror for KDE on Linux also passes the Acid2 test if you absolutely desire a non-OS X Acid2 compliant browser. (probably not :D) The irony with Konqueror is it displays other webpages much worse than IE or Firefox, Gmail in particular.


IE7, I believe, locks the toolbar/new interface look does it not? If I am mistaken please let me know.

I think that will be a major failing point. Breaking the standard windows menu-bars on the top is going to put a lot of people off, and trying to make it show "more of the website your visiting" is kind of... an odd reason.
This is a security feature. It's meant so the user isn't tricked by browser add-ons which immitate the IE interface.

[hammocksleeper]

I'm fine with IE6, I never even asked for a new one. :)

[TimP]

Yes, IE 6 has served my browsing needs well. I'm looking forward to transparent PNG support most since a lot more sites are using it. Tabbed browsing is also sort of handy now and then.

[AJ]

Yes, IE 6 has served my browsing needs well. I'm looking forward to transparent PNG support most since a lot more sites are using it. Tabbed browsing is also sort of handy now and then.
PNG transparency is a godsend. about time.

[hammocksleeper]

PNG transparency is a godsend. about time.

can you give examples of sites that use that? for some reason i dont think ive ever run into a problem with that

[TimP]

A lot of Wikipedia vector art uses transparent PNG. I've also seen some logos with drop shadows use it.

Here's an example:
http://www.my-mainframe.com/files/transparent.png

[AJ]

It's the difference between using outdated .gif files, and much smaller more efficient .png files.

For example the menubar on the left, could look much better with IE supporting PNGs.
Or the ORG Staff image. Or any of a number of images around the network. ;)

[WeekendLazyness]

I've been using IE7 for most of today, and I have to say I'm impressed. It was able to import all my bookmarks from FF with little problem (there is a bug with the bookmarks - when you're ordering them you have to put the one you want below another one above it to work properly). The button layout is a bit confusing at first, but easy to understand. The layout itself and rearanging menu buttons isn't as intuitive as FF, though.

BTW, you can still access the menu bar by clicking Tools>Toolbars>Classic Menu

[Modred]

The irony with Konqueror is it displays other webpages much worse than IE or Firefox, Gmail in particular.
According to the KDE developers site, if you set the user agent to Mozilla in Konqueror 3.4.x and later, Gmail works almost fine. I don't have Konqueror installed anymore, so I can't verify at this time.

[Nuts]

I've been using IE7 for months now. I'm surprised you guys are so far behind the curve. ;)

[Neo]

This is a security feature. It's meant so the user isn't tricked by browser add-ons which immitate the IE interface.
Thats such a lousy excuse. And some people actually like some add-ons (ebay toolbar, google, yahoo, whatever, etc...) Does IE7 stop them from working to?

Why change the interface? "To make it more secure..."

Its still going to put a lot of people off.

Instead of fixing it so that the browser can't be hijacked or whatever, they decide to lock the interface look? Would it really be that hard to make it secure?

-Neo

[TimP]

Thats such a lousy excuse. And some people actually like some add-ons (ebay toolbar, google, yahoo, whatever, etc...) Does IE7 stop them from working to?

Why change the interface? "To make it more secure..."

Its still going to put a lot of people off.

Instead of fixing it so that the browser can't be hijacked or whatever, they decide to lock the interface look? Would it really be that hard to make it secure?

I must have worded it poorly. IE 7 does not stop 3rd party browser helper objects (BHOs) from functioning or blending in with the user interface. By locking the interface they prevent things like malicious browser help objects from hiding browser elements and replacing them with their own. For example, imagine if a browser help object hid the status bar and replaced it with one that would show phony SSL connections and certificates on phishing sites. By locking the interface in place, things like that aren't possible and any attempts will immediately look suspicious. Granted these concerns may not seem warranted now because there have been no widespread cases of this, but just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it never will.

As far as changing the visual style of the interface, there's no rhyme or reason behind that other than it looks more like upcoming Vista interface.

[Neo]

I must have worded it poorly. IE 7 does not stop 3rd party browser helper objects (BHOs) from functioning or blending in with the user interface. By locking the interface they prevent things like malicious browser help objects from hiding browser elements and replacing them with their own. For example, imagine if a browser help object hid the status bar and replaced it with one that would show phony SSL connections and certificates on phishing sites. By locking the interface in place, things like that aren't possible and any attempts will immediately look suspicious. Granted these concerns may not seem warranted now because there have been no widespread cases of this, but just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it never will.

As far as changing the visual style of the interface, there's no rhyme or reason behind that other than it looks more like upcoming Vista interface.
Makes sense now. They want it to look like vista, whatever.

Instead of using a tried and true interface, they are going to change it? How many people are going to be put off by it? Not many people are going to be able to switch to something like that -- instead staying with earlier, more vulnerable IEs, of which I am sure that Microsoft will stop supporting the moment that IE7 comes out.

-Neo

[TimP]

It doesn't look that much different to me, just a new toolbar with new pictures. When IE 7 comes out it's going to get pushed through Windows Update so most people will update to it whether they know they're doing so or not.

[xodkrm]

Is it possible to install IE7 on a not-genuine windows?