Do animals have emotions?

[GrimTerror]

Simple question. Do you think animals have emotions? I for one think that they do. Its a good topic with Animal Ethics and Animal Rights, so it should be good here. All you animal lovers would agree that they are just as emotional as we are!:)

[EvilEggCracker]

Of course they have emoticans! Well most anyway...Just because theyre less intelligent than us doesnt mean they lack the capacity to feel.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Simple question. Do you think animals have emotions? I for one think that they do. Its a good topic with Animal Ethics and Animal Rights, so it should be good here. All you animal lovers would agree that they are just as emotional as we are!:)

I have a dog who feels emotions. She can tell when people are crying and that it means someone is sad, and it makes her worried. Therefore, seems to make sense to me that animals sense emotions and feel emotions accordingly. The simplest example is that all animals feel pain, and those who have been involved in incidents such as car accidents become recessive and will be 'afraid' of cars, as such.

[GenocideAlive]

Ooooooooooooh, here we have the uninformed masses trying to blur the lines. Mammals feel emotions as a general rule of thumb. Fish and lizards do not.

And one could argue just as quickly that what you're describing as "afraid" is simply "learning".

[GrimTerror]

We are animals ourselves, right? We should be able to relate to the emotions that animals can feel. Would you say animals lack certain emotions that human posses, like Love or Hate. A lot of actions of animals seem to be based on instincts rather than emotions, like mating and keeping territory. Do animals only have emotional reactions with humans or do they have emo moments with other animals as well?

[Ecthelion]

I imagine a reptile or fish still has some base concept of emotions, even if it is only at a subconcious level. Can a fish not feel fear when caught on the end of a hook, nor a lizard anticipation when it is about to strike it's prey? Though their emotions are undoubtedly less complex than other species, I believe they still have a rudamentry form of them.

[KexMex]

I think they have emotions, be it mammal or lizard or fish.

I don't think so about insects though, they go entirely by instinct and nothing else.

[Ecthelion]

Insects are a tough call. I don't know if they experience any sort of emotion. Maybe a mild form of fear, but even that falls under the category of inconclusive...

Maybe they're like the Borg, and the queen is the only one who feels emotion, but feels it for everyone? :rolleyes: Or not

[GenocideAlive]

I imagine a reptile or fish still has some base concept of emotions, even if it is only at a subconcious level. Can a fish not feel fear when caught on the end of a hook, nor a lizard anticipation when it is about to strike it's prey? Though their emotions are undoubtedly less complex than other species, I believe they still have a rudamentry form of them.
There's a big difference between feeling pain coupled with realizing that what is happening isn't something you had planned and feeling fear. True "fear" requires someone to be cognisant of the future, and I seriously doubt lizards and fish are capable of understanding that; they simply possess the fight-or-flight reflex.

They get hungry, thirsty, tired, horny, and that's about it. They possess nothing more.

[GrimTerror]

Don't they have some sort of feelings of loyalty to the queen (ants,) or is that just The Simpsons messing with my mind?:P

[Ecthelion]

More like mutal servitude. They just work with each other because that's all they know how to do.

It is impossible to know for sure whether the fish is just in pain, or if it feels an form of fear. I have to disagree with your lizard theory though. My brother's girlfriend has three lizards, and they not only appear angry at each other all the time, but seem to emit a more positive attitude when their owner comes in and interacts with them. Whether or not this is an actual feeling of elation or not, I do not know. But I believe that all animals possess some form of emotion. Even though the fish may not consciously know he is afraid, he still may have an idea of mortality and therefore might feel some variation of fear.

[GrimTerror]

I doubt a reaction from an animal (Flaring Crests, Puffing Chests, Showing Teeth, Opening Mouths, Hissing etc) would occur if the animal did not feel threatened in any way. According to the Evolution Theory we evolved from apes, so if we did then our ability to understand emotion might have evolved along with our intelligence. That seems a more reasonable explanation than if human emotion came from no-where during the evolutionary stage.

[Ecthelion]

This is all subjective. It depends on each persons definition of "emotion". If you want to get technical, emotion is the triggered release of chemicals in your brain that make you feel a certain way. Therefore, feeling threatened is an emotional response, as is pain, and fear requires no cognotive awareness of future events or mortality. Throughout this whole thread, we've been trying to relate animals to our sense of emotion, which involves being aware what will happen in the future, among other things. Maybe animals just have a more fundamental, simplistic sense of emotion mostly foreign to ours. They just feel in the moment, without conscious awareness of anything but the present.

[GenocideAlive]

This is all subjective. It depends on each persons definition of "emotion". If you want to get technical, emotion is the triggered release of chemicals in your brain that make you feel a certain way. Therefore, feeling threatened is an emotional response, as is pain, and fear requires no cognotive awareness of future events or mortality.
Please don't try to feed me this shiny happy people bullshit that you just made up.
According to this theoretical framework, an emotion is a superordinate program whose function is to direct the activities and interactions of the subprograms governing perception; attention; inference; learning; memory; goal choice; motivational priorities; categorization and conceptual frameworks; physiological reactions (such as heart rate, endocrine function, immune function, gamete release); reflexes; behavioral decision rules; motor systems; communication processes; energy level and effort allocation; affective coloration of events and stimuli; recalibration of probability estimates, situation assessments, values, and regulatory variables (e.g., self-esteem, estimations of relative formidability, relative value of alternative goal states, efficacy discount rate); and so on. An emotion is not reducible to any one category of effects, such as effects on physiology, behavioral inclinations, cognitive appraisals, or feeling states, because it involves evolved instructions for all of them together, as well as other mechanisms distributed throughout the human mental and physical architecture
Now please, stop yapping like you know shit from shineola that you have no education nor information on.

[Nuts]

My fish runs from me when I try to pick him up. This means he has emotions.

[Aqo]

Me cat tried to tear off my arm after I didn't let her sit on my lap listening to Rammstein with me. This proves animals have emotions. She really really likes Rammstein.

[BlackHawk]

My fish runs from me when I try to pick him up. This means he has emotions.

I'm guessing he didn't like those red roses you gave him then?

[Magmaniac]

Only mammals feel emotions, lesser creatures simply do not have the necessary complex brain structures to generate emotion.

[GrimTerror]

What makes you think that your source is more valid then everything else Genocide? And how do you know the Ec's post was not based on another information source that could have been equally as valid as yours? Just because you believe in that source doesn't make it a fact, so why do you think that anyone elses comments are wrong?

Not that i'm sticking up fo Ec here, i'd just like to know what makes you so certain that what he had to say was: "shiny happy people bullshit that you (Ec) just made up."

[hammocksleeper]

I would go so far to say that plants have emotions as well.

[GenocideAlive]

What makes you think that your source is more valid then everything else Genocide? And how do you know the Ec's post was not based on another information source that could have been equally as valid as yours? Just because you believe in that source doesn't make it a fact, so why do you think that anyone elses comments are wrong?
Because what I'm talking about is valid, scientific fact. What EC is talking about is a compromising bullshit based on ignorance and his opinion. I could go into the anatomy and physiology of the same, but then I'd have to put up with your halfwitted replies to the same.

[frazz]

I think the opinion that less cute animals have no emotions is wrong. Either all have emos or none do and it's all instinct. We just don't think about how the fly feels when we swat it, or how the chicken feels when it was killed.
Though there are plenty of animals without a central nervous system, so they can't feel pain. But knowing you're about to dies is unnerving for any animal.

[GrimTerror]

Because what I'm talking about is valid, scientific fact.
"Facts" are just strong arguments for whatever cause. Your Scientific fact could be disproven in years to come, it could be disproven tommorow. Since Ancient times, Science and its "facts" have changed. It's probably safe to say that even today our scientific theories are changing and developing with the advance of technology. You don't know for certain that your "facts" are truth, but you are willing to believe in it because it makes sense to you. Thats fine. It doesn't seem right to me that you should say that other people's facts or statements are entirely bullshit when your own facts cannot be 100% proven.

[Magmaniac]

Okay, it depends on which theory of emotion you believe in, the two factor theory would suggest that to create emotion one needs A- a stimuli to produce it and B- cognitive recognition of the state of emotion. Since lower animals lack a real consciousness, they cannot conceive of emotion, therefore do not have any. The two more incorrect theories (james-lange and canon-bard) would say that the event causes a physiological aroual leading to emotion or something of the like. (I.e. something coming at you fast causes heart to race caused fear.)
Which is obviously bullshit.
The two factor theory from Schacter is not correct but is more correct than the other two theories, and it supports that animals couldnt feel emotion, so I'm going with that, y'allz can be ignorant bitches all you want.

[GenocideAlive]

"Facts" are just strong arguments for whatever cause. Your Scientific fact could be disproven in years to come, it could be disproven tommorow. Since Ancient times, Science and its "facts" have changed. It's probably safe to say that even today our scientific theories are changing and developing with the advance of technology. You don't know for certain that your "facts" are truth, but you are willing to believe in it because it makes sense to you. Thats fine. It doesn't seem right to me that you should say that other people's facts or statements or entirely bullshit when your own facts cannot be 100% proven.
This is a strawman designed to sabatoge science in an effort to preserve your wildly irrational opinion. I assure you, you don't have to go that far. I'm not that interested in seeing you educated.

[JenJen]

of course animals have a emotions. You can tell when dogs are happy compared to being tired. You can also tell when animals don't feel well, just like humans.

[Holocaust]

I don't know for a fact (I doubt anyone here does) that animals have emotions or not.
We are animals too, but our lives aren't based just on instinct.
A dog is an excellent example of animal emotion, if you scold it, it will appear sad like have it's tail between it's legs and it's head down.
Possibly all living things have emotions but have their own way of showing it

[GenocideAlive]

It's hilarious that people emotionally equate dogs to ants.

[Magmaniac]

Dogs only seem to show emotion because they generate the best response to your actions to suit their own well-being. It's not actually emotion, it's simple operant conditioning at work, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about and is just making baseless hypotheses out of nothing.

[GrassDragon]

GA is right. Have you heard of our mammalian and reptilian brains? Reptilian brain refers to fight-or-flight reactions, and mammalian brain refers to deep emotions. Mammals experience emotions but lizards and bugs don't. When your fish swim towards you it's because he associates the image of your face with food. Ants are a hive mind colony.

Seriously.

[TinyDancer]

GA is right. Have you heard of our mammalian and reptilian brains? Reptilian brain refers to fight-or-flight reactions, and mammalian brain refers to deep emotions. Mammals experience emotions but lizards and bugs don't. When your fish swim towards you it's because he associates the image of your face with food. Ants are a hive mind colony.

Seriously.


What about birds?

[frazz]

It's not actually emotion, it's simple operant conditioning at work, and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about and is just making baseless hypotheses out of nothing.
In the defense of all our good friends down at PETA, it's not a hypthesis made out of nothing. It is made through observation. How far into observation you go will affect the answer you perceive. They are not making an idea out of nothing, it's just that they are misinterpreting what they observe.

[Magmaniac]

Okay, maybe it's not based off nothing, but yes it is misinterpreted. To put it simple, the people at PETA (who aren't MY freinds so I dont know who you're talking to,) are psychotic environmental extremists like the sierra club that dont think of the wayt hings as they are, only as the way they want it to be.

[GrassDragon]

Okay, maybe it's not based off nothing, but yes it is misinterpreted. To put it simple, the people at PETA (who aren't MY freinds so I dont know who you're talking to,) are psychotic environmental extremists like the sierra club that dont think of the wayt hings as they are, only as the way they want it to be.
$karma++;

And as for birds I don't know, but I would be inclined to say they do not feel emotions.

Can we at least agree on what an emotion is? If an emotion includes feeling agitated when around enemies than frickin bacteria could feel emotions. But do dogs "love" other dogs? I don't think so.

[Sikawtic]

I bet the falling goats feel humility.

[Leosam096]

Insects are a tough call. I don't know if they experience any sort of emotion. Maybe a mild form of fear, but even that falls under the category of inconclusive...

yes it sure is hard to think about insects but maybe they do show examples.

for example lets take a cockaroach...they go wherever they want but stay in dark places and when they feel or think someone is nearby...they may go back into hiding maybe because they're startled.

[GenocideAlive]

yes it sure is hard to think about insects but maybe they do show examples.

for example lets take a cockaroach...they go wherever they want but stay in dark places and when they feel or think someone is nearby...they may go back into hiding maybe because they're startled.
It's hard to believe that the general populace could be any more ignorant.

[Fred1000000]

You obviously don't own 8 cats. They have personalities, emotions, and other things.

[Neo]

Yeah... Its hard to live with a loving and effectionate animal for years and believe that they haveno emotions.

I sure as hell know my Sadie has emotional responses to various stimuli, happy, sad, worried, scared, she displays them all. I refuse to even entertain the idea that Mag is right.

But people, get with the program, insects are moronic. They operate on instincts alone -- they don't have an emotional responses. The sense someone near them, thier instinct tells them to run and hide. Nothing more.

As for birds, I am not sure. I do think they experience some emotions. For instance, when our Parakeet's mate died while we were moving, he didn't "sing" for months afterwards... He was silent, and he was very obviously sad (he seemed to barely eat). Though he eventually started to chirp and sing again (more annoying then ever). He also seems to react towards people in the room when everyone is happy -- He will start "talking" with us (ie: he will chirp and stuff with people in the room).

I don't know if that really proves that they have emotions, but I think it shows that they have something rolling up in that birdy brain of thiers -- Hell if you've spent any time with a Parrot/other talking bird it becomes obvious there is SOMETHING going on up there.

For instance, my Aunt's friends (two guys, omg they are GAY run!!!1) have a .. I forget what its called, a bigger tropical bird that can talk -- Each day when one of them leave, the bird will say "Daddy going to work!" (something like that) and will great him when he comes back "Daddy is back!" Or some such. But what was most interesting was when a female friend of thiers stayed over for some reason or another (My grandmother tried to relate the story, but she couldn't recall exactly) either to look after the animals while they were away or what... But she slept on the sofa (or I think it was in thier guest room) and when she got up, the bird looked at her and said "Whore" -- which I thought was hilarious.

So who knows... I have a hard time believing that reptiles would be similar, though I have seen a few that would seem to indicate that they have something basic going on, I just have a hard time with believe that an Iguana or Snake is going to show affection, though with that recent story with that snake and mouse who knows, heh.

-Neo

[GenocideAlive]

I wish you fuckwits would read. There's a big difference between MAMMALS whom you keep remarking have emotions, and INSECTS/FISH/LIZARDS, whom are well known to have NO EMOTIONS. Nobody needs to hear yet another recycled treatise on why Fluffy has feelings, we need to hear some educated remarks on why Spikey the lizard is capable of feeling emotions that are governed by parts of a brain that HE DOESN'T POSSESS.

THERE. ARE. DISTINCTIONS.

Some of you need to pick up a copy of Reader Rabbit.

[Ecthelion]

Okay, so your basing your theory that only mammals have emotion off of their intelligence and neural complexity. In that case, what about African Greys? They possess higher intelligence than most mammals. The one my aunt owns can be told to close the curtains, find the keys, and change the television channel. It will react to my aunt in a amiable way, while it attacks my uncle. The bird definately shows signs of emotion.

I once had a chameleon, who are fairly intelligent for lizard. Explain to me how he has no emotion when he used to have a fit when I turned on the news. It's definately not a fight-or-flight reflex, so what is it then? Emotion perhaps?

And what I said wasn't, "happy people bullshit", whatever the hell that means. It was looking at it subjectively, a concept you obviously have difficulty grasping?

[GrassDragon]

Okay, so your basing your theory that only mammals have emotion off of their intelligence and neural complexity.
Close, but not exactly. It's not the size of their brain, but mammals possess a part of their brain that is capable of creating emotions. It's just not a part of reptiles' brains.

In that case, what about African Greys? They possess higher intelligence than most mammals. The one my aunt owns can be told to close the curtains, find the keys, and change the television channel. It will react to my aunt in a amiable way, while it attacks my uncle. The bird definately shows signs of emotion.
You don't understand the difference between emotion and conditioning. I can train my fish to swim to my side of the tank when I stick my face next to it, but that doesn't mean he feels anything. I can train my spider to jump at anyone other than me if they try to pick him up, but that doesn't mean he feels anything.

I once had a chameleon, who are fairly intelligent for lizard. Explain to me how he has no emotion when he used to have a fit when I turned on the news. It's definately not a fight-or-flight reflex, so what is it then? Emotion perhaps?
How not? Maybe you always clip your chameleon's toenails while you watch the news, so he associates nail clipping (an undesirable experience) with the sound and image of the news on TV. So whenever you flip on the late night news he freaks out because he thinks you're going to clip off all his toes.

And what I said wasn't, "happy people bullshit", whatever the hell that means. It was looking at it subjectively, a concept you obviously have difficulty grasping?
Yeah, stop that subjective stuff.

[GenocideAlive]

Okay, so your basing your theory that only mammals have emotion off of their intelligence and neural complexity.
Are you retarded? Can you please quote me where I say anything about an animal's intelligence? Please also point out where I mention anything about "neural complexity". Both of these are inferrences that are completely inappropriate for the context of what I had stated.

I'd also like to remark that interpreting animals conditioned/operant behavior as "emotions" not only counts as a logical fallacy, but is wildly irrational. You might as well say that when you put sugar into your ant colony, they became very excited and were happy to go get it. More like their food drive makes obtaining food a high priority and obtaining it quickly is necessary to avoid predation and loss of the source by secondary consumers. To call this "happy" and "excited" in that context is equivalent to saying your car loves getting gas because it sputters and and eventually won't run without it.
It was looking at it subjectively, a concept you obviously have difficulty grasping?
Oh yes, because subjective analysis is very important to proving your point and making an argument. :rolleyes: Do you even know what subjective means?

[Ecthelion]

Obviously, I'm getting no where with this. I'll have my opinion, you have yours. Let's call a stalemate. I'm sick and tired of arguing with you, Genocide. All it turns into is a verbal assault fest. I pointed out the conditioning not as a sign of emotion, but as a display of intelligence. Yes, I know what subjective means, and no, the car thing doesn't apply because cars are inanimate objects. I think all animals feel emotion, regardless of what kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genes, or species. That is, of course, bacteria, being unicellular organisms and all. Prove to me, once and for all that only mammals feel emotion, and I'll be happy to agree with you. Until then, farewell.

Heh, you used fuckwit again! That word is so amusing!

[Neo]

GA tone it down a bit. Hot damn does every thread you post in turn into a flame-war?

-Neo

[Snot]

Break it up, both of you...

Of coarse animals have emotions... they feel... happyness, and sadness. I have a dog, and she's usually just, sad whining for attention, or happy whiping ya with her tail. It's like being flogged... and she drives me nuts... but she's a dane, so it all evens out.

[GenocideAlive]

Of coarse [sic] animals have emotions... they feel... happyness [sic], and sadness. I have a dog, and she's usually just, sad whining for attention, or happy whiping [sic] ya with her tail. It's like being flogged... and she drives me nuts... but she's a dane, so it all evens out.
This is a good example of my current opposition. Thank you for posting.
GA tone it down a bit. Hot damn does every thread you post in turn into a flame-war?
Just the ones where uneducated people begin rewriting all of science and our understanding of psychology for purposes of their uninformed beliefs. Where's Morkeliph when you need him.

Typically people get angry because they don't like the concept that their belief structure is based on misinformation and other logically fallible concepts. Ultimately these constructs satisfy the pretense of intellectualizing thier beliefs for their purposes (propping up their beliefs with pseudo-science), but fail miserably in any arena in which ideas are measured or tested for basic logical cohesion.

They post, I post a counter argument pointing out these glaring flaws and that they're promoting strawmen, and they post back typically angry that someone hasn't taken their opinion at face value. I'm under the (mis?)understanding that the content of someone's post is more valuable than that they posted.

[GrimTerror]

This is a strawman designed to sabatoge science in an effort to preserve your wildly irrational opinion. I assure you, you don't have to go that far. I'm not that interested in seeing you educated.

I didn't make up that statement in defence of my own opinion (which you seemed to think it was) but instead to stop you from dismissing other responses that conflicted with your own. Science is NOT 100% absolute, as much as you might want it to be, it isn't. Therefore any statement you make based on your scientific knowledge is not absolute.

[GenocideAlive]

I didn't make up that statement in defence of my own opinion (which you seemed to think it was) but instead to stop you from dismissing other responses that conflicted with your own. Science is NOT 100% absolute, as much as you might want it to be, it isn't. Therefore any statement you make based on your scientific knowledge is not absolute.
I have a reply, but rather than to precipitate a discussion that is apparently already souring several people, I will demur from making it. I will simply say that I disagree and think you are misinformed.

[Neo]

This is a good example of my current opposition. Thank you for posting.

Just the ones where uneducated people begin rewriting all of science and our understanding of psychology for purposes of their uninformed beliefs. Where's Morkeliph when you need him.

Typically people get angry because they don't like the concept that their belief structure is based on misinformation and other logically fallible concepts. Ultimately these constructs satisfy the pretense of intellectualizing thier beliefs for their purposes (propping up their beliefs with pseudo-science), but fail miserably in any arena in which ideas are measured or tested for basic logical cohesion.

They post, I post a counter argument pointing out these glaring flaws and that they're promoting strawmen, and they post back typically angry that someone hasn't taken their opinion at face value. I'm under the (mis?)understanding that the content of someone's post is more valuable than that they posted.

And until you become supreme ruler of beliefs, its not up to you to tell people what they believe in is stupid, based on misinformation, etc... Even if it is.

This is a topic on animals and thier emotions and/or lack thereof. Instead of discussing them, you've taken it and made it into something personal. Calling people, or at least refering to them as stupid is a poor way to make a point.

If you know how people are going to react, and do it anyways to get a response out of them, theres a term for that; Trolling. So stop it.

Even if a person believes something wrong, you've no right to berate them with it.

-Neo

[GrassDragon]

I didn't make up that statement in defence of my own opinion (which you seemed to think it was) but instead to stop you from dismissing other responses that conflicted with your own. Science is NOT 100% absolute, as much as you might want it to be, it isn't. Therefore any statement you make based on your scientific knowledge is not absolute.
I'm going to try throwing my laptop out the window real quick to see if it'll fly up into the air. I mean, it can't be proven that that's not going to happen, right? I'll be right back with my results.

[GenocideAlive]

And until you become supreme ruler of beliefs, its not up to you to tell people what they believe in is stupid, based on misinformation, etc... Even if it is.

This is a topic on animals and thier emotions and/or lack thereof. Instead of discussing them, you've taken it and made it into something personal. Calling people, or at least refering to them as stupid is a poor way to make a point.

If you know how people are going to react, and do it anyways to get a response out of them, theres a term for that; Trolling. So stop it.

Even if a person believes something wrong, you've no right to berate them with it.
PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE

GenocideAlive has elected to withdraw from this conversation due to the extreme amounts of stupid that have percolated here. Not only are people overtly ignoring basic logic and getting offended when someone points this out, but the mod that is "participating" functionally is only attempting to further the argument with non-sensical sentences using unclear impersonal pronouns, prepositional phrases, and hypocritical garbage.

This, even AFTER GenocideAlive has clearly made an attempt to respond in a non-inflammatory way and keep the discussion civil and on-topic. While it's fun to say that GenocideAlive flames everybody, apparently it's even more fun to deride him for such then bait him.

You may now continue discussing how lizards possessing only crude amygdalas responding to a TV being turned on are clearly emotional beings.

Ignore this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1935503&dopt=Abstract


PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE

[Dark_Viper]

I smile watching the hatred of some people just cause some thing different then others.. i mean cmon.. i didnt think this thread was Trols-R-Us

There is even some who dont even know what their talking about
though i have to say one thing..

getting back to the main area.. there are some reptiles, avians, and mammals that indeed only run on instinct.. true.. but there are Reptiles, avians and most mammals that do have emotions..

Factes can allways be scewed in someones favor.. but one thing is true.. Facts can change in time.. it has it will..

Humans as a species are still animals as well.. we were just lucky to climb to the top of the evolutionary ladder.. for now..

"Lesser creatures" .. hmm.. that is quite a general term.. as.. well.. as to what humans believe.. any other creature is lesser.. that does not mean they dont feel emotions..
sure some creatures may have what looks like preregesterd or trained emotions.. even though in the wild they act the exact same fasion to the exact same problem..

canines, felions, porpuses, equines, primates, some avians, limited serpents and some large reptiles.. all have emotions in one form or another.

small reptiles, insects, some avians, most fish.. but not all.. do indeed lack the capacity for emotions and act purely on instinct.

Im sad to see so much hatefull fighting in a place for intelegent conversation on beliefs a science.

Dark Draconius Viper

[EDIT] I see I am wrong as this was not posted in the IR area *shrugs*

[Magmaniac]

I would like to start by saying the following:
Sex.
Now that I have drawn your attention...

As for birds, I am not sure. I do think they experience some emotions. For instance, when our Parakeet's mate died while we were moving, he didn't "sing" for months afterwards... He was silent, and he was very obviously sad (he seemed to barely eat). Though he eventually started to chirp and sing again (more annoying then ever). He also seems to react towards people in the room when everyone is happy -- He will start "talking" with us (ie: he will chirp and stuff with people in the room).


This is the type of post I read instead of skim over. I'm not going to pretend to be a complete expert on this but I do know a thing or two so let's see if I can figure this out. Birds are more complex than reptiles and fish and insects, but not as complex as mammals. The reason for the bird to stop 'singing' could be simple operant condioning: the bird sang before because when it sang, the other bird would probably respond by singing back, the sound of the other bird stimulating the first's (para?)sympathetic nervous system causing the bird to feel pleasure (not an emotion), and want to continue. Take away the other bird and none of the rest takes place, causing the bird to stop associating singing with pleasure (extinction). It is well known that an extinct association has a good chance of randomly starting back up later, which would explain the continued singing later.
Now saying all that, I'm assuming a lot, but If what I'm implying isn't happening, something close to it probably is.


I wish you fuckwits would read. There's a big difference between MAMMALS whom you keep remarking have emotions, and INSECTS/FISH/LIZARDS, whom are well known to have NO EMOTIONS.


Although your point is valid, stop focusing on the stupid ones and start focusing on worth arguments.
Also, tone it down?(and yes, I do know that means nothing coming from me.)


for example lets take a cockaroach...they go wherever they want but stay in dark places and when they feel or think someone is nearby...they may go back into hiding maybe because they're startled.


lol.


I once had a chameleon, who are fairly intelligent for lizard. Explain to me how he has no emotion when he used to have a fit when I turned on the news. It's definately not a fight-or-flight reflex, so what is it then?


This has been talked abot already, but please explain to me how it isn't a fight-or-flight reflex, because in my eyes it probably is.


And until you become supreme ruler of beliefs, its not up to you to tell people what they believe in is stupid, based on misinformation, etc... Even if it is.

This is a topic on animals and thier emotions and/or lack thereof. Instead of discussing them, you've taken it and made it into something personal. Calling people, or at least refering to them as stupid is a poor way to make a point.

If you know how people are going to react, and do it anyways to get a response out of them, theres a term for that; Trolling. So stop it.

Even if a person believes something wrong, you've no right to berate them with it.

:topic: Off topic.
Please keep your spam to yourself, neo.


Now that I'm done, I will let you indulge in what you really want from me:
Sex, sex, sex, sex, sex!
You can go away now.

[Ecthelion]

Well, now that this has gotten completely carried away, with all the flaming and sex, we were talking about if animals had emotion, not throwing laptops to try and disprove gravity.

I was intrigued by what someone said earlier about plants having emotions. Do they, even if they aren't nearly as complicated as ours? It is said that if you talk and sing to your plants, they grow healthier. Or if you put caring and kindness into wilting ones, they will rejuvinate. I've never tried it myself. And about the birds and lizards and other species not feeling emotion, I do believe we've overlooked something key: death. All animals, regardless of species or breed, mourn the loss of a mate or offspring or even sometimes sibling. Penguins will go into a harsh depression at the death of one of it's young, and chameleons will not mate for many years if their mate dies. Is that not grief? Even fish go into a state of lethargy at the untimely death of their offspring.

Indeed....

[GrimTerror]

If it's not emotions do animals have an intelligible side? I still think they do have emotions (if you live with pets you'll understand) but i think that some animals can think. I don't think everything an animal does can be based on instincts alone, there should be some sort of intelligible side to them even if it is small.

Back to the emo animals, I'd like to respond to whoever mentioned the bird that spoke. Its most likely that you are thinking about an African Grey Parrot as they are one of the most well known birds for their speech. I don't think is has anything to do with emotion though because they just copy the words. It's most likely that they do not understand what the words actually mean (like calling your grandma a whore when she enters the house) but its triggered by a certain reaction that the bird notices. On the topic of birds, i do think they have emotions. I've lived with them all my life (my mum loves birds see) and they are pretty responsive.

If a bird didn't feel threatened, would it puff up it's chest or Flare it's crest or Squark when it feels it is in danger. Some people would put it down to natural defence mechanism, but you would have to "feel" threatened first before you take appropiate action.

[Magmaniac]

Yes, but feeling threatened does not necessarally necessitate emotion. :-D