Hobos: Champ or Chump of the Poor?

[GenocideAlive]

OK, I have somewhat of a problem. I live in Austin, TX which is pretty much the leftist hippie capitol of the world. As a result, pretty much everything is totally spammed with various and sundry propaganda for either radical of the respective two-party system. A side effect of its overwhelmingly Democratic popoulus is that some people are very giving, which means that there's a homeless panhandler literally at every busy stoplight for a 15 mile radius from UT.

While I can (and have) ignored them for long periods of time, it brings up an interesting dilemma. I sometimes (over?)think about these people's plight, and inevitably give them a dollar or something to try to help them. But how do I know this is actually helping anything, as opposed to supporting some bum that doesn't want to get a job or feeding his drug addiction?

I have no easy solution, but I still feel very lucky and grateful for what I have from day to day. How can I deny these obviously poor people such a simple gratification when my entire life has almost been one long gratification?

I grew up in the ghetto (guns ghetto, not ghetto suburbs) during some parts of my life and was picked on pretty regularly when I wasn't in the ghetto. But still, I can't help but feel lucky that I have so many things. I am very satisfied with my life, though I don't really make much money (yay science careers) nor do I have any exceptional possessions. I still know people that are dissatisfied and respond to the homeless with a curt, "Get a fucking job."

Does giving to the poor make me a chump?

[Neo]

I've always prefered donating to the red cross, or Gleaners (huge food back up here) or other organizations.

I don't have anything against the beggers... but its hard to know which ones are truly in need.

I don't feel the least bit guilty over not stopping for beggers, some fo them may truly be in need... But thats what shelters are for, or soup kitchens and such.

What ultimately stopped me from giving to the corner beggers, is that I saw one wearing a rolex and had better clothes on then I did (albiet his were 'ripped and dirtied').

I don't know, but I feel that giving straight to the beggers is a bad idea :/ I'd rather donate to a charity or cause that I know will do something good with my money... rather then to a person who may or may not be hooked on drugs or be an alcoholic.

-Neo

[EvilEggCracker]

How can I deny these obviously poor people such a simple gratification when my entire life has almost been one long gratification?

Simple, you walk past em...
Anyway, Beggers are very annoying. Im not selfesh. Infact I give alot its just I get very few cash for pocket money and I cant save up to save my life. I dont wanna spend my hard earned cash on some guy Ive never met and will probobly never meet.

[GenocideAlive]

Simple, you walk past em...
Anyway, Beggers are very annoying. Im not selfesh. Infact I give alot its just I get very few cash for pocket money and I cant save up to save my life. I dont wanna spend my hard earned cash on some guy Ive never met and will probobly never meet.
Real unselfish of you. :rolleyes:

[EvilEggCracker]

You know what they say; thats life.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

About three times per week there comes a begger onto the train that I'm on and comes up with these stories of their woe and predicament. Sometimes those stories are so perpostrous I actually find them entertaining. Once during valentine's day, I felt generous and gave this hag two quarters. She smiled and said "Thanks", but as she left the train I heard her grumble something about what a cruel world it is, and how horrible and greedy we all are. That's the last time I ever gave someone money for their sob stories.

However, I still consider giving beggers money if they work for it. For example, some musicians on poverty regularly board the train and play music for money. They actually try to work for their money, and I respect that, so I give them a dollar or two (unless I fell asleep on the train). But if they're lazy bums who expect people to pity them as they just lie there waiting for money to fall down on their cup, I ignore them.

Chances are, poor people made themselves poor by either becoming addicted to something, gambling, going on shopping sprees, or being plain lazy asses. Those people deserve their fate and not the sympathy from others. However the truely misfortunate ones are the ones who try to work to get back on their feet, and most probrably worked before when they weren't homeless. I believe that if a person can work, they can avoid being homeless.

[Yoda]

Real unselfish of you. :rolleyes:

Seconded.

When I was in Malaysia, I saw quite a lot of poor people. I didn't do a whole lot at the beginning, but as the trip more and more progressed, I found myself being more generous. I never found enough things to spend my spending money on anyway. During the last few days, the rest of the people in my tour group found that they hadn't spent enough money, so decided to buy a whole lot of things which they didn't even want. I didn't bother even feeling like suggesting they donate it, though.

I hope this doesn't seem self-righteous, because honestly I didn't give enough and wish I could repeat then and fix it.

Some people could fake being poor, but only some would do that. Who would want for lie down on a street corner for twenty four hours, only to recieve something like 3 dollars.... they don't get "paid" a lot for faking.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

I've always prefered donating to the red cross, or Gleaners (huge food back up here) or other organizations.

I don't have anything against the beggers... but its hard to know which ones are truly in need.

I don't feel the least bit guilty over not stopping for beggers, some fo them may truly be in need... But thats what shelters are for, or soup kitchens and such.

What ultimately stopped me from giving to the corner beggers, is that I saw one wearing a rolex and had better clothes on then I did (albiet his were 'ripped and dirtied').

I don't know, but I feel that giving straight to the beggers is a bad idea :/ I'd rather donate to a charity or cause that I know will do something good with my money... rather then to a person who may or may not be hooked on drugs or be an alcoholic.

-Neo

Similar organisations such as Red Nose Day back here in England help the homeless with the money donated to them. It's a one day thing, every two years, I believe. Better giving to them, (as they will probably know what to do with it and use it most efficiently) that giving it to a drug addict/gambler who will probably throw it all away and then go full circle back to living on the street.

[Prozerran]

By profession, I'm a Mortgage Broker. I have often come across homeless people hitchhiking on the side of the road. I have often thought that one day when I was in a more stable income situation (starting up is particularly hard on your pocket) I would make a considerable effort to get these people into housing. Shelters are good, but they don't get these people into a position to truly come out of their situation. They often work in the shelters preparing meals, washing dishes, cleaning facilities, and washing clothes. These sorts of things don't put these people into any kind of position to work a full time job and get money to get on their feet.

There is financing for people to get into housing meant specifically for these people. Obviously, the ones who don't benefit from this are the ones who don't make the effort to break their drug or drinking habit, and they wind up worse for the ware. So, it's a balance of our effort combined with theirs. If you ask me, putting your best foot forward may work one out of ten times statistically. Not every homeless person is a lost cause. Many have ended up in their situation due to simple mistakes in judgment that have profound effects on their lives.

Make no mistake, I don't excuse it. But I don't think every homeless person is an alcohol or drug addict with a dependancy.

[GenocideAlive]

Yeah, a lot of flawed mentalities seem to assume that if someone is homeless that they're innately flawed or made some gross, intentional errors in judgement that got them there. Maybe so, but eating out of trash cans and lying in the street hoping people will give isn't exactly freeloading. More like spoiled college kids without jobs living at their parents' house. Anyway, there's a lot of ignorance here, sometimes. :/

[Xenon]

Giving to the poor raises you (very slightly) in my estimation GenocideAlive. Good job.

I think only people without any empathy can entirely ignore homeless people. People without empathy are also known as psychopaths.

Whenever I see a homeless or destitute person, I always think; "there but for the grace of god go I". Sure, it's a figure of speech because I don't believe in god... but the idea is there. Anyone can wind up homeless for any number of reasons. You don't even have to be dumb or an addict to wind up homeless.

I once spent several months in a homeless shelter after making a risky business decision which cost me all my savings.

The thing about money is that it's only money. You can always get more. If you wanna worry about something, worry about your health or your loved ones and your relationships with them. Physical hardship is always temporary.

[GenocideAlive]

Giving to the poor raises you (very slightly) in my estimation GenocideAlive. Good job.
And for all the arguing, insults, and nitpicking we do with one another, I consider you just some guy doing his thing. I do not estimate you.

To know someone is to do more than read their posts.

[Kingscrab]

Good topic GA. My answer will probably be all over the place. I'll probably sound like a dick.

This whole question on whether or not to give money to street people has nagged at me more than once as well. I've gone round and round in my head debating with myself more than once. There are just way too many factors to consider. Do i feel bad for people who are "homeless"? Of course. But... why are they there? Is this person really homeless? (scammers CAN make a lot of money begging... and yes it does happen) Why does an able bodied person who chose that way of life (and there ARE many) deserve my money over the next beat old guy down the street. What will they really do with the .58 change i give them? I would be naive to think that this will actually improve their life. So why am i giving that old war vet a buck? To help him buy a 40 and make his shitty life more bearable for one more day? Okay, that's as good a reason as any.

You ever notice that when you don't want to give someone money you always say "Sorry, i don't have any change". Why should i be sorry? It's not my fault. Seriously, I think that for the most part, the only reason to give street people money is to stroke our own egos and reassure ourselves that we are "good people". Which is lame.

Basically, I won't give homeless people money anymore. At least, not just out of pity. There are just so many panhandlers where I live that I've become jaded. If someone is at least trying to earn it, like playing an instrument or has a clever gimick, i'll drop a buck or two in their hat. At least put forth some half ass effort to get my money. If i give every dude that asks me for change some money where does that leave me?

Wanna help someone, donate to the salvation army or bring food to the homeless shelter. (to help people that actually have the will to get back on their feet after disaster)

[GenocideAlive]

Yeah, fair enough. But at some point you have to wonder what you're keeping your $.25 for. To play a video game? To buy a gumball? It can help buy them coffee or maybe a cigarette. When you're broken and homeless, can you really be judged for your choices? Obviously they're under extreme duress. Anyway...

[Kingscrab]

Yeah, fair enough. But at some point you have to wonder what you're keeping your $.25 for. To play a video game? To buy a gumball? It can help buy them coffee or maybe a cigarette. When you're broken and homeless, can you really be judged for your choices? Obviously they're under extreme duress. Anyway... I totally see what you're saying... Maybe the decision to give depends on personal experience too. Like I said, I'm a little jaded. I've been suckered into giving money more than once with a guilt trip. I don't like it one bit. I've also been broker than shit and busted my ass dishwashing and doing total shite jobs just merely so i can eat. Never once asked strangers for change. Not trying to step on the ole soapbox, but where there's a will, there's a way. Survival is a damn good motivator.

But yeah, if you can make someone's day with .25 perhaps it is money well spent after all...

EDIT: Oh the irony - An hour after my post i walked four blocks to a friend's house and was hit up twice for change on the way. The first guy at least straight up said, "I'm trying to get some money for smokes and tobacco." His honesty almost made me laugh out loud...

Had i any any change, he might of actually got it... :smirk:

[GenocideAlive]

EDIT: Oh the irony - An hour after my post i walked four blocks to a friend's house and was hit up twice for change on the way. The first guy at least straight up said, "I'm trying to get some money for smokes and tobacco." His honesty almost made me laugh out loud...

Had i any any change, he might of actually got it... :smirk:
Weird. If someone is honest about wanting to feed their addiction, you'll give them money. But if they're honestly starving, you're dubious they're going to feed an addiction and don't want to give them money. O_o

I actually have the LEAST sympathy for those that are honestly trying to feed addictions ("420 time", "want a Bud", "need a smoke", etc.). It's like, I don't go to fucking forty hour work weeks so I can buy you pot, dickhead. If you want to smoke that shit in your spare time, so be it. But I'm not fucking helping your dicked up priorities.

[Kingscrab]

Weird. If someone is honest about wanting to feed their addiction, you'll give them money. But if they're honestly starving, you're dubious they're going to feed an addiction and don't want to give them money. O_o

I actually have the LEAST sympathy for those that are honestly trying to feed addictions ("420 time", "want a Bud", "need a smoke", etc.). It's like, I don't go to fucking forty hour work weeks so I can buy you pot, dickhead. If you want to smoke that shit in your spare time, so be it. But I'm not fucking helping your dicked up priorities. Well, let's not kid ourselves. How many guys that ask you for "bus fare" on the street actually spend it on bus fare. I suspect more often than not, most of it goes into the 40oz fund. I guess you can give them the benefit of the doubt though... At least the guy was not trying to scam/lie to me. I found the honesty mildly refreshing, and for that, i'll give him a tiny bit of credit. (He was quite polite actually...)

[GenocideAlive]

I suspect more often than not, most of it goes into the 40oz fund. I guess you can give them the benefit of the doubt though...
If someone lies to me, and spends my money dubiously why do I care? I have trust and faith going for me, he has deception and lies. For my dollar, I come out ahead, and he comes out behind, IMO.

[BIGDB]

I live about an hour from Atlanta, where panhandling is illegal ^_^ And I have to say, it's nice being able to walk out of the capital building without practically being mugged by people that want your loose change...

On that note, no. It doesn't make you a chump in the least... Not exactly a champ either, though. I generally decide if I want to shell out the five bucks based on how old the guy/girl is, and their current physical condition... And even then it comes in the form of an actual bus ticket or a happy meal. If its a younger guy in good physical condition, I'll usually say no, unless it's for his hungry kid...

I'm not sure if most of them do... But most of the ones I've talked to do have a job. It's just very low pay, and they're trying to save some of it for a down-payment on a piece-o-crap car, or something like that. *shrug*

[GenocideAlive]

I sort of do that too, try to "estimate" their condition to assess their need. Or how long they've been doing it, so as to give to those that actually look like they may be suffering some sort of temporary condition, as opposed to those that look like they've been doing this the better part of decades. Is that..."fair"?

[Modred]

I rarely give more than $1 to anyone just asking for money. Usually if some random guy walks up and asks for a quarter or a dime, I'll give him one if I have it. Street performers are another matter. I'll sometimes drop several dollars into their cases or boxes because if I'm being entertained, they deserve a tip. Of course, if I'm just passing by, I might not drop anything, but if I'm standing around listening, chances are I'll give them something.

I have given away food before, and almost bought a guy a sandwich once, until he started cussing me out for not helping him. If he'd just kept his mouth shut another minute, he might not have driven me away, but I'm sure he got by alright (he practically lived outside a McDonalds and would almost instantly grab any relatively whole food someone threw away). I've also volunteered with a couple of shelters and helped fix up some low cost apartments that are used to help people rebound from poverty. Generally, I'll be more comfortable doing things like that, espcecially the latter, because I know it helps people get out of homelessness or poverty, even if only a few at a time. Shelters are nice, but they are meant to be a temporary solution as the shelters and other organizations help their "residents" get back on their feet.

And that's my spiel on helping the poor.

I believe that if a person can work, they can avoid being homeless.
I recommend you read Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich if you ever have a chance. She does a nice little study, in which she goes to a new town with $1000 and attempts to find a job and housing, usually with a rental car also, and attempts to make ends meet after one month. After three attempts, she utterly fails in most of the cities. Although a month is a little short for such an expirement, I think it proves a good point. Even if you have work, have housing, and have a car, you can lose it all relatively fast when on a low income (her pay ranged from $6-$8/hour). Some people even keep the job and car, but become homeless and live in their cars. Working doesn't always keep you from being poor or homeless.