View Full Version : Zerg vs. Dark Archons
Geckat
11-05-2005, 12:02 PM
As a dialup-user with just one line, I hardly ever go on B.net. Instead, I usually play 2v1 Melee, with me (Zerg) against two 'Insane' Protoss comps. I haven't played for a while, but I know that Dark Archons always pissed me off. It's hard to do any form of harssment with Spawn Broodling with Feedback going off every time I'm within eleven or so points. Zerglings and Hydralisks get chopped up when a couple use Maelstrom and call in their Dark Templar buddies. The same goes for Guardians and Devourers. Ultralisks get Mind Controlled and Maelstromed, and the only good thing about that is that I can blow up that stupid Archon with my couple remaining Ultras. Massing different units at once can work, but losses are still high and it's not exactly cost-effective.
I've never asked for help on the game itself since I began playing, always trying to forge my own way of playing. But these DAs are pissing me off so much, it's actually embarrasing. Just gimme something to try out against six or so Dark Archons with backup, or a way to get around them, without using eight thousand of my resources on five different strikes. Thanks.
MidnightGladius
11-05-2005, 12:25 PM
If you harass early game effectively, there's no way that they're going to get DAs on you... what build order are you using?
loads_of_fun
11-05-2005, 12:36 PM
As a dialup-user with just one line, I hardly ever go on B.net.one of my friends has 56k
and when ever i play with
him he never lags plus i've
heard that dail-up is the
most stable way to connect
to battle.net
Sikawtic
11-05-2005, 12:47 PM
dial up is laggy... because it's slow. Cable is laggy on SC, because there are a lot of router issues.
Geckat
11-05-2005, 2:09 PM
Yeah, I think loads of fun's got it right. I never lag on B.net. The thing is, it takes an hour and a half to get the newest patch, two minutes to connect, and if someone phones, fifty per cent of the time it kicks off my internet. So...I lose. I don't go on anymore, unless there's nothing to do here. And there almost always is.
Anyways, I do harass. I'm not very good at it, though. Usually quite soon (usually around the time they get a good Photon Cannon matrix) I stop harassing and focus entirely on building a large army. I've been playing for quite a few years on and off, so I'm not a total newb. But the keywords are 'on and off', so I haven't dedicated much time to getting any good. But yeah, once I stop harassing and he starts harassing back, I start filling up my # slots. That's when he gets his Dark Archons. I've kept him from getting too many before, by getting to resources before he does and such. But they'll still get on my nerves once he gets them, and they're the only unit I can't counter effectively at the moment.
Oh, right, my build order. It's probably different than most of the SC vets use, but I find it works best for comps --> Spawning Pool, Extractor, 2nd Hatchery, Lair, Queen's Nest, Hive, Spire, Ultralisks, Defiler Mound. I usually have 1-3 with 'Lings, 4-6 Hydras, 8 is Ultralisks with 9-0 aerial, if you need my usual units amount.
Yeah, I am at completely a loss with this. It's not really costing me games, but it just pisses me off that I have to do so much just to get around a single strain. I know there has to be something easier than massing all your groups and holes in their defenses to nail their base fast.
william_clinch
11-05-2005, 2:51 PM
Not sure how well (if at all) this will work, but have you try'd sending a small group of units (zerglings) against a Dark Archon, not for attack, but to make him use up most of his Psi energy, and then imidiately send in your main bulk of troups.
The main problem with this plan, is I dont know whether A dark archon would use his Psi energy on just zerglings, or know to save it for more powerfull foes.
Or is there usually a certain size a zergling group has to be for it to have Maelstromed used on them....
close.ads
11-06-2005, 6:58 AM
When the protoss starts using white and dark archon on the zerg it is over...Protoss completely owns in late game.
MidnightGladius
11-06-2005, 9:25 AM
Yeah, if they can micro archons, DAs, and HTs well, you're doomed.
william_clinch
11-06-2005, 9:37 AM
had another idea (but like the last one, not sure if/how well it would work)
Use several Mutalisk Guardians against the dark archon, but attacking from different angles. This way, Maelstromed will probably only damage only one or two of them (if they're spread out) and haveing a few mind controlled wont be a big problem, bacause they can only attack ground units, and so wouldn't then be able to attack the Guardians still under your controll (and then you can easyky kill them off with other air units). They also have a good range on them
MidnightGladius
11-06-2005, 9:57 AM
Theorycraft. Bah.
I can tell you right off the bat that that wouldn't work.
william_clinch
11-06-2005, 11:06 AM
Why not?
..........
had another idea (but like the last one, not sure if/how well it would work)
Use several Mutalisk Guardians against the dark archon, but attacking from different angles. This way, Maelstromed will probably only damage only one or two of them (if they're spread out) and haveing a few mind controlled wont be a big problem, bacause they can only attack ground units, and so wouldn't then be able to attack the Guardians still under your controll (and then you can easyky kill them off with other air units). They also have a good range on them
You will have hard time spreading them "just in time just in the right angle". What if they decide to attack from somewhere else than the middle of your flank? Your spreading out thingy would be hard to do again.
Maelstorm doesn't "damage", It stuns. if you have 4 dark archons, each have 100 energy at that point, it means you get 8-12 guardians useless for some time, while 4 dark archons "useless" after that wont hurt the toss a bit. This allows archons to kill the mutalisks, their high damage and splash really massacers them. If the mutas run away, archons will have nice time killing the guards. Also, Psionic storms keep the zerg guards on the move, which allows archons and other units to approach and kill them, or if they keep attacking they will die even sooner and easier.
I Would rather use dark archon energy to maelstorm, not waste it on a useless mind control.
Guardians have good range, but so does high temps and dark archons. And archons are fast.
Besides, if you keep making mass guards / mutas the toss would probably have won the game because archons really own them, and you cant get mass guards fast enough without letting toss to mass exp = loss
Geckat
11-06-2005, 1:07 PM
Not to mention Corsairs. I'm not talking about Dark Archons on their own. I'm talking about backup, and usually the methods I use to get past that do work - they just cost about three times as much as the damage cost O_o .
close.ads
11-06-2005, 5:18 PM
Muta spread is okay in early game, when you have less than 12 of them. when it comes to large scale battle, it will take too much micro to spread mutas. Unfortunately, dark archon usually comes out in late games and late games usually means large scale battle...
william_clinch
11-06-2005, 6:23 PM
if it's just against a computer, turn the game speed right down, to make microing more manageable:P
MidnightGladius
11-06-2005, 7:39 PM
Bah, I doubt he wants to win that badly...
Though there are rumours that some of the PPs were done on Slowest speed...lol
yeah. Like tratoss vs the 2 lurkers, he has no rep of it, it was ums and most likely was filmed when replay was playing fastest or smthing.
Besides, Computers micro and play like shit and don't even use dark archons, really. Who cares about a win vs comp anyway? We're talking about playing human people.
close.ads
11-07-2005, 9:10 AM
Tratoss has a 1st person VOD of him doing the lurker thing, search in 360designs.de and you can find it.
close.ads
11-07-2005, 1:16 PM
It's always been vs 1 lurker, I think he beat a lurker first with 1 rine moving, then the second one with all 3 rines moving at the same time.
But at first it was vs 2 lurkers at different positions, and THAT takes alot of more micro.
close.ads
11-08-2005, 11:01 AM
It does...but once you look at the 1st person VOD you can do it too...
it was vs 1 lurker ; I can do that. You never saw the other one where he was against 2 lurkers, You, or me, or anyone here cannot do it.
And I've seen the 1st person vod -.-
close.ads
11-08-2005, 3:45 PM
2 lurkers at the same time? Hmm...that would be hard...
Geckat
11-08-2005, 6:19 PM
Ummm...that's great. Bah, it doesn't matter. I think I've got the whole thing worked out by now, what with you guys telling me basics on what to do and what not to do. Go for it.
Holy crap, two mods are viewing this one thread O_O .
close.ads
11-09-2005, 9:49 AM
btw can u post the link for him vsing two lurkers at the same time?
PP 2004 vod that dyo made. I don't have it anymore
MagnaAngel
11-09-2005, 6:33 PM
well.. what i think is.. to play against computers, there is no point getting air unit and such. Just get a couple hactheries and get hydralisks (speed and range upgraded), and a couple overlord to detect invisible units (move speed upgraded). 120+ supply of pure hydralisks easily ripe out any protoss computer =)
just try it out and see.
Geckat
11-09-2005, 9:41 PM
Yeah. That's what JulyZerg did, wasn't it? Just massed Zerglings and Hydralisks from the replay I had - I don't even think she got her Lair 'till near the end. I think most human Protoss players would have a defense against that (I suck as Protoss, so I wouldn't know), but I think you're right in saying that sheer massing is a good strat against the comps with their fixed strats.
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