the imagination of space

[Napalm]

Mars
ok so i heard that if they find life on Mars (for example: bacteria frozen in ice) that life will become a Law and not an exception, this is because the probability of life being on 2 planets in 1 solar system is insanly highly unlikly. Also apparently a mission to mars is supposed to be launched in 2020? so who thinks they'll find life on mars? or maybe not just mars but on any other planet in the entire universe? also ive been thinking alot about living on mars, could it be habitable with a breathable atmosphere? or will we have to be living in glass dome citys connected with tubes like in science fiction movies/novels.

Black Holes
Apparently black holes arn't holes at all instead there are a single point in space that compresses everything into them and the more that gets compressed, the bigger the gravity around it is, also i heard that some guys theory was that if u skim accross the side of a black hole that you would appear in a different time and different part of the universe. thoughts on this anyone? do u think this is true?

Space-time
If you drop an apple, you think that gravity is forcing the apple to the ground right? well maybe there is no force involved maybe the apple is mearly falling on a curve in space-time. For people who don't understand i'll give an example of what this would be like. Say you have a mattress with a heavy ball in the middle that would make a dent, this heavy ball we will call earth. Now if you take a smaller, lighter ball (lets call this a meteor), and place it on the side of the mattress it will fall along the curve untill it hits the heaveyer ball (earth), this is what falling through space-time would be like, no gravity force involved. anyone wanna add to this? maybe reply some thoughts.

I LOVE talking about space and all the posibilities, it just makes my mind go crazy and i say "whoaaaaaaw"

-Napalm

[ShadeZ]

Mars
the probability of life being on 2 planets in 1 solar system is insanly highly unlikly.
Says who? how many solar systems have you seen to give yourself backup on this?
or maybe not just mars but on any other planet in the entire universe?
I don't know about mars, but I think it's highly unlikely that we're the only planet with life on it.
also ive been thinking alot about living on mars, could it be habitable with a breathable atmosphere?
Not unless you like breathing in carbon dioxide (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Marsatmos.html)
if u skim accross the side of a black whole that you would appear in a different time and different part of the universe. thoughts on this anyone? do u think this is true?
No, I think that you would get to another universe, but that would be besides the point because you would be dead.

If you drop an apple, you think that gravity is forcing the apple to the ground right? well maybe there is no force involved maybe the apple is mearly falling on a curve in space-time. For people who don't understand i'll give an example of what this would be like. Say you have a mattress with a heavy ball in the middle that would make a dent, this heavy ball we will call earth. Now if you take a smaller, lighter ball (lets call this a meteor), and place it on the side of the mattress it will fall along the curve untill it hits the heaveyer ball (earth), this is what falling through space-time would be like, no gravity force involved. anyone wanna add to this? maybe reply some thoughts.
That's an interesting theory. I think that that's what gravity is though. However, wouldn't it need gravity to make it go to the big ball? that's what's happening when you let the 'meteor' roll down to the 'earth'. So if it's true it makes an infinate stream, which is why I'm not so certain about this theory of yours.

I LOVE talking about space

So do I.

[Napalm]

Not unless you like breathing in carbon dioxide (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Marsatmos.html)
Well Humans could change that by planting, well plants, also if we create the same effect thats happening here (the green house effect) then if there are frozen lakes on mars then they could liquify, making mars alot like earth.

That's an interesting theory. I think that that's what gravity is though. However, wouldn't it need gravity to make it go to the big ball? that's what's happening when you let the 'meteor' roll down to the 'earth'. So if it's true it makes an infinate stream, which is why I'm not so certain about this theory of yours.
Well im not talking about if it is gravity i mean im just talkign about the pulling force involved in gravity like there might be no pulling force, could be just falling on a cuve, which means everything that moves is going along some type of curve in space-time and that space is in 4-dimensions meaning you cant see the curves. just like that theory where space is 4-dimentions and if you go in one direction through space then eventually you'll end up where you started.

[Geckat]

Umm...I thought I heard somewhere that the martian atmosphere had been sucked off it. Anyways, its soils are nearly devoid of nutrients needed for plant life, and even if plants could exist, there's hardly any sunlight, no liquid water, and the C02 would only supply so much oxygen, since even if Mars does have an atmosphere, it's not very thick. Bacteria live there because, well, they can live basically anywhere.

And yeah, from what I've heard black holes aren't holes. Just little pricks about the size of a pin that can have more gravity than a thousand suns. w00t!

I don't know anything about time-space, though. I'll just have to watch this thread - I've never been able to grasp that concept very well.

[GrassDragon]

That's an interesting theory. I think that that's what gravity is though. However, wouldn't it need gravity to make it go to the big ball? that's what's happening when you let the 'meteor' roll down to the 'earth'. So if it's true it makes an infinate stream, which is why I'm not so certain about this theory of yours.
I think that's the commonly accepted view of gravity. The 2D-stretching-into-3D model is just a simplified example so that you can understand it. In reality, it's 3D space pulled into a 4th dimension that curves objects towards other objects.

[Zeltaris]

Space-time
If you drop an apple, you think that gravity is forcing the apple to the ground right? well maybe there is no force involved maybe the apple is mearly falling on a curve in space-time.
If there is no force, the apple does not move. If the apple falls down a curve, it's cos there's a force acting on it. There's your gravity
For people who don't understand i'll give an example of what this would be like. Say you have a mattress with a heavy ball in the middle that would make a dent, this heavy ball we will call earth.
You do understand that metaphor is a 2-dimensional model of something that happens in 3 [4 if you count time] dimensions?. Gravity doesn't actually bend space/time downward. If you look at it in 3d, gravity pulls inward.
Now if you take a smaller, lighter ball (lets call this a meteor), and place it on the side of the mattress it will fall along the curve untill it hits the heaveyer ball (earth), this is what falling through space-time would be like, no gravity force involved.


Once again, falling or any other motion whatsoever requires a force.

@ Geckat. Mars' atmosphere still exists. It is considerably less dense than earth's due to Mars' lower gravity. Most of its air has just drifted away into space. However, there's still a thin blanket of CO2 and other gases left

[Napalm]

wow you guys have officially boggled my mind, this is hard to take in lol

so i guess what everyone is saying is that if people DO live on Mars we will be living in some type of building with life support? or with a hyponics room. Maybe in the very distant future if the human race still exists by then, maybe we could have the ability to alter Mars so that it can support life without having to live in seald buildings. That makes me think... i wonder how long our race will exist for, or how far we would expand throughout space.

As for the space-time thing going on, thanks to Zeltaris, thats just so hard to imagine what that looks like.

[Uuugggg]

Woaah. Black holes. They are nothing more than this definition:

Radius < 2 * Mass * ( G / c ) †

Which means, any object whose size:mass ratio is so small that the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light... meaning nothing can escape it... except funny stuff called Hawking radiation =/
About their size: No single point in space. There is a black hole in the center of our galaxy, about the size of our solar system. When black holes are formed, they are much smaller than any planet. Also, by that R=2M definition, the entire universe is a black hole =)
To 'skim across the side of a black hole' you would have to be going the speed of light at the very edge of the hole (I dare you to try). And, teleporting and time traveling? Complete bullshit. You would be compressed or flattened just the the black hole itself has done, nothing more.
And, if you apply that fabric of space-time stuff, your mattress will have such an indentation that there would be an infinite slope around the edge of the black hole (Though I hate that 2D analogy of a 3D concept)


And this is all coming from me, who took an Astronomy class taught by a guy who worked with telescopes and stuff for a long time. My facts are straight =x



†
G: is the universal gravitational constant, which you might have seen in the equation Fg=mMG/r^2
c: is the speed of light.
G/c is incredibly small.

[singo]

You do understand that metaphor is a 2-dimensional model of something that happens in 3 [4 if you count time] dimensions?.

Or possibly five. If you count time as having two dimensions (Forward and backwards)

Time may not be a dimension, merely somewhere to have dimensions IN. Like space.

Black holes. Damn I HATE that name, all they are is a collapsed star with an escape velocity greater than c. (As far as A-level physics has taught me)

[Vhaeraun]

Let me hops in here.

Since we're talking about Space-Time, I'll explain in that aspect.

First of all, consider space to be a plane, with everything (Earth, the sun, Mars, etc) sitting on it. The heavier objects bend that plane more. Thus, Earth's bend in the plane is larger that the moons, and the sun's indent is larger than ours.

Using the idea of a plane, a black hole appears to be a hole, when in actuality, the black hole itself is the singularity that causes the massive bend. The event horizon of a black hole, then, is the circle where the fall into the singularity begins. If you look at the following picture, the point where the bend begins is the event horizon.

http://www.astro.ku.dk/%7Ecramer/RelViz/bh_front.gif

When it begins, that is where the representation of a black hole begins. The actual singularity is what the "black hole" is, and the name black hole comes from the bend in the space-time fabric. The gravity of a singularity is so strong, that it seems as if even time can't escape it (If you fall into a black hole, your POV is of being stretched into an infinitely long noodle, whilst an external viewer would see your body as it was when you fell in.

also i heard that some guys theory was that if u skim accross the side of a black hole that you would appear in a different time and different part of the universe

The only way that would be possible is if we had FTL, so as even though light cannot escape, we could if we had Faster-Than-Light capabilities. Now, the way I figure this is possible is through wormholes. Where a black hole is a massive bend in the space-time fabric, a wormhole would be, in essence, either a rip in the fabric, or the point where a pair of singularities met (from two different universes, which is a completely different concept entirely; I'll go into that later on, if I'm asked to explain.) and canceled each other out, but left the link between the universes. If the above picture was a black hole, then this is a good interpretation of a wormhole

http://www.daviddarling.info/images/wormhole.jpg

I'll go on if anyone has questions ;)

wow you guys have officially boggled my mind, this is hard to take in lol

What has been said thus far is mellow and easy to understand. When we get into talking about dimensions, THEN it gets mind-boggling. (Tetraspace, anyone?:D)

[kongurous]

This thread makes me glad I paid attention in astronomy and physics. I'll think of something worthwhile to throw up eventually.

[loads_of_fun]

Or possibly five. If you count time as having two dimensions (Forward and backwards)

Time may not be a dimension, merely somewhere to have dimensions IN. Like space.
time is actully counted as a dimension but a theory calles string theory pricts that there are 10 dimensions, the 3 we see, time(4th dimension), now the other 6 dimensions only appear to be 1 from our viewing point for this reayson lets say you see a peace of string going across a ally it only appeats to be 1 dimensional but we all know that it is not (or we all sould) but lats say an ant was on the string to him(the ant) the string would appear to be 3 dimensional but what the ant is crawling on is just a small portion of it you see the ant was on a very small peaice of a 6 dimensional object but the 6 dimensional abjecty is so small an entire line of them would appear 1 dimensional to us (just like the string)

The only way that would be possible is if we had FTL, so as even though light cannot escape, we could if we had Faster-Than-Light capabilities. Now, the way I figure this is possible is through wormholes. Where a black hole is a massive bend in the space-time fabric, a wormhole would be, in essence, either a rip in the fabric, or the point where a pair of singularities met (from two different universes, which is a completely different concept entirely; I'll go into that later on, if I'm asked to explain.) and canceled each other out, but left the link between the universes. If the above picture was a black hole, then this is a good interpretation of a wormhole
theorectically we could travle faster that light (and go back in time) if, well you all know (or sould have some idea) that the faster things go the more mass it gets and the faster things go the slower they age so, the faster an object goes the more energy it need to get there and physics that your mass would be near infinant it your your going 100% the speed of light and if your going 100% the speed of light then time is frozen so that based on this we can assume that if you could build a ship that could not get cruched under the extreme gravatinal mass of it self then theorectically you could power the ship (propulsion wise) with a sun or suns useing the extreme gravatinal mass of the ship couldent the ship produce enuff pressuer to allow the sun/suns to funtion as the propulsion of you could dirct the energy in 1 direction so theorectically once you get going fast enuff the sun/suns would do the rest and the faster after that you go the more power you would theorectically get

also all black holes were at one time sun's, incase some one here did not know that i'll explain how once a sun uses up all of its hydrogen the helim starts turning into the heaver elements like iron wile its doing this its getting bigger and bigger and bigger and after a wile its get so big that it cant support it self so it starts to collapse and gets really small, the pressure makes the core become extremely hot, so the core burns the rest of its nuclear fuel, core uinstabitys might make it explode (super nova) when it does the core it a neutron star (pulsars) if the neutron star is big enuff it will collapse on its self and become a black hole

I LOVE talking about space and all the posibilities So do I.
ditto

[singo]

theorectically we could travle faster that light

Actually, we KNOW how to do that. Unfortunately, once the required conditions are acheived you cannot A) steer your spaceship or even B) Slow down.....ever.

Also, to do it that way would take roughly ten times the energy of the mass of the universe. A better way needs to be found :P

Apparantly, the trick is to create a "bubble" of spacetime around the FTL-whateveryouwant and seperate it from the rest of the universe, and then move that bubble through space at translight speeds. nothing inside the bubble itself need to move at all. (A rough summary taken from a chapter in The Science of Discworld III, and it was one of the "Science" chapters rather than a "Discworld" one, so there)


Of course, einsteinian physics WILL eventually be replaced by another theory, sceince doesnt stand still. Maybe the next theory will allow FTL without all this sillybuggery.

[loads_of_fun]

Actually, we KNOW how to do that. Unfortunately, once the required conditions are acheived you cannot A) steer your spaceship or even B) Slow down.....ever.
yes you can steer it just fire
the side thrusters to turn and
to slow down just pull a 180
and let the engins "kill" then
selvs or w8 till all the fuil is
used and then fire the front
thrusters

Also, to do it that way would take roughly ten times the energy of the mass of the universe. A better way needs to be found :P
were did you find this out i never
herd this befor can you provide a
link

Of course, einsteinian physics WILL eventually be replaced by another theory, sceince doesnt stand still. Maybe the next theory will allow FTL without all this sillybuggery.
i wonder how long this will take

[Vhaeraun]

yes you can steer it just fire
the side thrusters to turn and
to slow down just pull a 180
and let the engins "kill" then
selvs or w8 till all the fuil is
used and then fire the front
thrusters


You DO understand that the G's created by this would kill any and everyone in the ship right? Not to mention rip the ship apart. Think about it. You're going the speed of light. That isn't like regular space travel. You can't just use conventional thinking at that speed. It'd be damn near impossible to slow down, unless you had no qualms about killing yourself and your crew.

[singo]

No, its not that, it is that once that "bubble" of spacetime is created and moving, it can never be turned off or the velocity changed. At all. Of course there isnt enough energy to do it in the first place. But theoretically it is possible

And as for how long before einsteinian physics is superceded? Give it a couple of decades.

You DO understand that the G's created by this would kill any and everyone in the ship right? Not to mention rip the ship apart.

Ah, now, If a method of propulsion can be developed that acts upon EVERY particle within the ship, including every particle of every crewmember, then there would be no force felt by those inside.

[Vhaeraun]

Ah, now, If a method of propulsion can be developed that acts upon EVERY particle within the ship, including every particle of every crewmember, then there would be no force felt by those inside.

Aye, but the way that he described it, it would be nigh impossible to do it. Thrusters by our standards cannot act on every particle of the ship. Now, maybe in a century or so, such a propulsion method is plausible. But from our current technological level, it can't happen.

[Geckat]

I was reading Popular Science a bit ago, and it was talking about 'warp speed', or FTL. They mentioned the 'ten times more energy than all in the universe' theory with the resources we now possess. If we could find stronger materials and a better method of utilizing energy, it would be possible. But we hardly even know where to start, so it's going to be a LOOOONG time. People actually have jobs to formulate new theories that could help with warp speed which, theoretically, would be able to take you through dimensions (including 'time').

Black holes are the other thing. Although gravity is the least powerful by far of the four different forms of forces (gravity, strong nuclear, weak nuclear, and magnetism, I believe), black holes can bring things in faster than the speed of light. Wormholes are supposedly possible, since black holes do tug on 'the fabric' (there's a word for it, but I'm just going to use the term used up there since I can't remember it), which could connect two points in the universe. Think of it like the letter 'A', with the universe being the '/\' part, and the two points in the middle being the two black holes (which aren't holes), the '-'.

That's all I can remember for now. I'll have to delve back in my old books and stuff.

Oh, I also remember about compressed matter in black holes that can stretch into hairs if it grows large enough - about an inch long. One of these would have the same mass as all of the Rocky Mountains.

As I said, I'll look in my old books. Maybe I'll find something I've forgotten :) .

[Xenon]

I have a friend who is a rocket scientist. He can plot mathematically 37 dimensions... there are more than 3 or 4 in case you didn't know...

[singo]

Aye, but the way that he described it, it would be nigh impossible to do it. Thrusters by our standards cannot act on every particle of the ship. Now, maybe in a century or so, such a propulsion method is plausible. But from our current technological level, it can't happen.

Which is why I said IF it could be developed.


And on the subject of the "ten times more", I believe it was ten times more than ALL the energy, including that which was tied up in matter. Of course if the laws of thermodynamics turn out not to hold true (A possibility) and energy CAN be created and destroyed there may be no obsticle to the AMOUNT of energy.


Gods any real physicist looking in here would probably have a heart attack....

[Ragnarox]

And, teleporting and time traveling? Complete bullshit.

I Beg to differ... (http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/)

[Napalm]

Since black holes are nothing more then a single point in space, isnt that what 0 dimension are? 1 single point? so that would mean that a black hole could be a gateway to 0 dimensions, and since it sucks pretty much anything into them it could suck things in form other dimensions aswell, so that could mean that 0 dimensions could be a 'hub' type thing leading to all other dimension maybe?

I wonder what 4 dimensional creaturs would look like, probebly pretty messed up (assuming that we could see them), and if these creatures could see in 4 dimensions that means they could see the curvatures of space-time, that would be pretty crazy.

Also i heard that theres a black hole in the center of the universe or galaxy i forget which and its the size of our solar system? well im not sure on the exact size but i know its really freggin big

i wish we could travel at light speed... i bet by the time we find out how to do it saftly (assuming that we will find a way to travel at light speed) we would be colonizing so many planets in our galaxy it would be awesome!

[loads_of_fun]

You DO understand that the G's created by this would kill any and everyone in the ship right? Not to mention rip the ship apart. Think about it. You're going the speed of light. That isn't like regular space travel. You can't just use conventional thinking at that speed. It'd be damn near impossible to slow down, unless you had no qualms about killing yourself and your crew.
who sayed the crew was gonna be humans they could robots and human DNA could be stored to once the ship reached its dsetnation they could start to "grow" them and from there they will do what ever they need to do

was reading Popular Science a bit ago, and it was talking about 'warp speed', or FTL. They mentioned the 'ten times more energy than all in the universe' theory with the resources we now possess. If we could find stronger materials and a better method of utilizing energy, it would be possible. But we hardly even know where to start, so it's going to be a LOOOONG time. People actually have jobs to formulate new theories that could help with warp speed which, theoretically, would be able to take you through dimensions (including 'time').
i have that one but the 1st 4 pages of the aritical were torn out so i could only read a bit but for only 10 cents i would not make a big fuss over it

also i read that if you "fall" into a black hole an object that has a mass of 500 trillio tons could let you like like 1 sec more, basied on this theorectically if you know were a worm hole is if you got some thing massive enuff could you not "open" the worm hole big enuff to get a person
or even a space ship through

[Vhaeraun]

who sayed the crew was gonna be humans they could robots and human DNA could be stored to once the ship reached its dsetnation they could start to "grow" them and from there they will do what ever they need to do


But again, by our standards, the G's pulled by the stop would rip the ship apart, effectively destroying the robots within.

[GrassDragon]

Unless I'm mistaken, the theory of relativity doesn't allow travel at the speed of light. As you get closer to the speed of light, more and more of the energy you pump into the particle goes to its mass, which makes it harder to speed up. The speed of light would mean a particle of infinite mass, a singularity.

[singo]

Unless I'm mistaken, the theory of relativity doesn't allow travel at the speed of light. As you get closer to the speed of light, more and more of the energy you pump into the particle goes to its mass, which makes it harder to speed up. The speed of light would mean a particle of infinite mass, a singularity.

Hence us having said (well, me having said) "when einstenian physics is suoperseded by something else"

[Vhaeraun]

And, teleporting and time traveling? Complete bullshit

Teleportation is simply a wormhole channeled from a point accessible by us, to a point inaccessible by us.

Time Travel is teleportation in a sense. Through teleportation, there are a couple possibilities you can have.



You could land in the same time period as when you left. Highly Improbable, but quite possible.
You could land in a different time as stated by Web Theory. (This is pretty much where for every decision you can make, there can be a universe. Example: Sitting on a bus next to someone; two universes are available: one where I sit there and do nothing, and another where I punch the person in the nose. There are infinite amounts of decisions people can make per day, and thus there are, in essence, an infinite amount of universes you can travel to)

I could go into detail about the possibilities of Time Travel, but this site does a better job than I ever could: http://www.scifiscience.co.uk/time.htm

As you can see from the above link, Time Travel has already been defined through the use of physics, but to create the technology capable to do such things is far from our understanding.

[SpeedyWorm1]

Mars
ok so i heard that if they find life on Mars (for example: bacteria frozen in ice) that life will become a Law and not an exception, this is because the probability of life being on 2 planets in 1 solar system is insanly highly unlikly. Also apparently a mission to mars is supposed to be launched in 2020? so who thinks they'll find life on mars? or maybe not just mars but on any other planet in the entire universe? also ive been thinking alot about living on mars, could it be habitable with a breathable atmosphere? or will we have to be living in glass dome citys connected with tubes like in science fiction movies/novels.

Black Holes
Apparently black holes arn't holes at all instead there are a single point in space that compresses everything into them and the more that gets compressed, the bigger the gravity around it is, also i heard that some guys theory was that if u skim accross the side of a black hole that you would appear in a different time and different part of the universe. thoughts on this anyone? do u think this is true?

Space-time
If you drop an apple, you think that gravity is forcing the apple to the ground right? well maybe there is no force involved maybe the apple is mearly falling on a curve in space-time. For people who don't understand i'll give an example of what this would be like. Say you have a mattress with a heavy ball in the middle that would make a dent, this heavy ball we will call earth. Now if you take a smaller, lighter ball (lets call this a meteor), and place it on the side of the mattress it will fall along the curve untill it hits the heaveyer ball (earth), this is what falling through space-time would be like, no gravity force involved. anyone wanna add to this? maybe reply some thoughts.

I LOVE talking about space and all the posibilities, it just makes my mind go crazy and i say "whoaaaaaaw"

-Napalm

This is one of the things I am planning to solve in the future. The three COOLEST, MOST IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND, COMPLETELY UTTERLY MESSED UP are to understand god,space,and time. You understand those you understand the universe:cool: .

[frazz]

Hence us having said (well, me having said) "when einstenian physics is suoperseded by something else"
What makes you so sure we are wrong about the laws of physics? Your logic is purely theoretical and if einstein physics are superceded(correct spelling, i think) it would be a long time(think centuries to millenia). All the physicist are thinking one way and to discover a different law of physics and prove it to all those physicists to be correc using the laws of physics that make everyone uses now would take a lot of time.
One more thing, the laws of physics are always the same. Our thinking is a variable.

[Ragnarox]

The three COOLEST, MOST IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND, COMPLETELY UTTERLY MESSED UP are to understand god,space,and time.

I can think a few more complicated things then that. Go look at that thread you made about that girl and you will see why.

Teleportation is simply a wormhole channeled from a point accessible by us, to a point inaccessible by us.

Actually, by definition, "Teleportation is the concept of moving physical information from one location to another without moving through physical space which require time instead object dematerialized in one location and materialize again into existent in another location."

http://www.deepawareness.com/teleportation.htm

[Vhaeraun]

Actually, by definition, "Teleportation is the concept of moving physical information from one location to another without moving through physical space which require time instead object dematerialized in one location and materialize again into existent in another location."


And my explanation said it in fewer words and was easier to understand :P

frazz, science is always changing. We aren't wrong, it's just that our current explanation isn't good enough. Every theory is replaced/defined/specified upon, even relativity. And the laws of physics as we know them will not work on another planet. So just because we have laws of physics doesn't mean they are universal laws.

[singo]

What makes you so sure we are wrong about the laws of physics?

Well, for a start they dont work perfectly an dpeople are actively trying to find soemthing else thaat does. And for a second, ALL knowledge will eventually be surpassed by another theory, it is the way of science



Your logic is purely theoretical and if einstein physics are superceded(correct spelling, i think) it would be a long time(think centuries to millenia).

Yes, my logic is purely theoretical, so is most of this thread. Does anyone have any first hand evidence of the inside of a black hole?

And I doubt it would be millenia as well. As far as I know not a single scientific theory has lasted more than a few hundred years before being replaced. (However, Newton's models, despite being wrong on several major points, are still good enough for most work, but they HAVE been surpassed.

Although maybe replaced is the wrong word. A more likely thing would be a few modifications to General Relativity to allow speeds exceeding c under a certain set of circumstances


One more thing, the laws of physics are always the same. Our thinking is a variable.

How true. My fault for using slightly ambiguous language.

And the laws of physics as we know them will not work on another planet. So just because we have laws of physics doesn't mean they are universal laws.

No, they WILL work on another planet and they are universal.

(Although as we have said, not neccesarily CORRECT in every particular.)

[loads_of_fun]

But again, by our standards, the G's pulled by the stop would rip the ship apart, effectively destroying the robots within.
thats why i sayed


theorectically we could travle faster that light (and go back in time) if, well you all know (or sould have some idea) that the faster things go the more mass it gets and the faster things go the slower they age so, the faster an object goes the more energy it need to get there and physics that your mass would be near infinant it your your going 100% the speed of light and if your going 100% the speed of light then time is frozen so that based on this we can assume that if you could build a ship that could not get cruched under the extreme gravatinal mass of it self and surive the trip then theorectically you could power the ship (propulsion wise) with a sun or suns useing the extreme gravatinal mass of the ship couldent the ship produce enuff pressuer to allow the sun/suns to funtion as the propulsion of you could dirct the energy in 1 direction so theorectically once you get going fast enuff the sun/suns would do the rest and the faster after that you go the more power you would theorectically get

[frazz]

well you all know (or sould have some idea) that the faster things go the more mass it gets and the faster things go the slower they age so, the faster an object goes the more energy it need to get there and physics that your mass would be near infinant it your your going 100% the speed of light and if your going 100% the speed of light then time is frozen
Could you please elaborate on this for my meager mind. Because i was under the impression that speed is relative. And that everything is moving at incredible speeds when compared to something else, such as another galaxy. I was also not under the impression that time would freeze if you go the speed of light. If you look back at earth going the speed of light, time would appear frozen because you would just be seeing the same light again, or so I thought. Please excuse for me being ignorant and elaborate on this theory, which apparently everyone but me understands.

[GrassDragon]

Here's an example of "time freezing":

Gravity affects the flow of time. The higher the gravitational force on an object, the slower it experiences time, relatively. The effect is measurable from the top of a building to the bottom of a building with extremely accurate clocks.

In a black hole there is a singularity, a point of infinite mass and therefore infinite gravity. If you were to jump into a black hole and travel towards the singularity, time would slow down as you got closer and closer because of the increasing force of gravity, until you finally reached the surface of the singularity and time stopped (for you). Now, because time is stopped for you, and continues at varying speeds throughout the rest of the universe, you would see the entire life of the universe flash before your eyes.

This assumes you could stand on a singularity, which is of course impossible.

[frazz]

thank you.

[singo]

Okay, you wont see this often. but I hereby admit my ignorance.

How does a "black hole" get from a (albeit collapsed) star with a humourously high escape velocity to a point of infinate mass?

[Irish_Hitchhiker]

:bonk: :chair: :smash: :blowup:


how can any one describe the vast and listness size of space with mere words and all attemps to do so will fall dramarticaly short of the true nature of the universe which is in all and present realities 42

"42 that is the secret to life the universe and everthing"

a black hole powers the powerfull engines of the starship titianic.....

[frazz]

Well spoken. 42 is indeed the all encompasing answer. But I still continue to search for that all encompassing question.

[loads_of_fun]

42 what? 42 dimensionas?

[singo]

No, fourty two is the answer to the very vague question

"What is the meaning of life the universe and everything?"

But no-one knows what the actual question is supposed to be.

Now, about my earlier question....

[frazz]

Technically, to produce 42 you would have to ask: "What is the ultimate answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything?"

[loads_of_fun]

Technically, to produce 42 you would have to ask: "What is the ultimate answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything?"
dont you mean

"What is the ultimate answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything?"

[singo]

There is only one ultimate in the ultimate question. but I digress.

And thanks for answering my question....I found something in the papers instead.

Now, maybe a bit less arguing vis a vis Deep Thought and more ontopicness eh chaps?