Mapping issues...

[Basan]

Well folks, there ya have it. I've finally 'been converted' to WC3-TFT and into it's mapping with WE Unlimited (since UMS WE v4.0 tends to crash on me when I get to it's Object Editor and start fancying to much for it's own taste :P). These are my recent mapping doubts/issues along with my lack of skill/knowledge onto how to fix or simply do'em. :concern:
Obviously enough, any help you may provide would be greatly appreciated. *Wink, wink*

1st - Giving the Submerge abillity to the Naga Sea Witch (usually bought at the Tavern) to work smoothly.
My attempts so far got me to this point:
- Gave that unit the Submerge (Naga Royal Guard) option amongst it's normal abillities.
- Changed it's movement type to Amphybious to allow her moving to the watery realms.
- Edited the above abillity to have the normal form as the Naga Sea Witch and the buttons of it to be set in [X=2;Y=0] in oder for it not messing with the regular hero abillities' buttons positions.
- Also done the normal form to be the N.Sea Witch along with the special art and also set the techtree depency to false.
- Obviously enough, had edited the submerged form of the N.Royal Guard to be a lot look-a-like with the N.Sea Witch by setting the icons, text names, race (creep), unit sounds, stats, combat stats, to match hers. Ain't quite sure about the abillities to put in there, just added the inventory (hero) in the normal field, but can't get to make the submerged N.Royal Guard to show the hero abillities.
Problems, altough it kinda works:
- I can't get the unit to show me the hero abillities nor the button to upgrade'em, after the 1st submerge/unsubmerge stunt. And it keeps showing me the N.Royal Guard hit points after unsubmerging as well (when compared to teh N.Sea Witch's ones before the submerging took place).
- The unit while submerged, shows me the N.Royal Guard portrait, wich I wouldn't like to appear but for the submerge to be sucessfull (read bubbley SFX terms) I must have the alternate form in it's default mode. And after the unsubmerging, sometimes it shows me the N.royal Guard form for a short amount of time. Will I have to make a new model file or find it' and if so, from exactly where to dl' it? :D

2nd - How can I remove a ramp that don't want there after saving the map and reopening it later on?
My solution:
- Redoing the terrain by clicking over it with the 'test trial' tool increasing n' decreasing level. :P
Problem:
- How to do it swiftly (if it's possible) and to make it look exactly before the ramp was made. There isn't a way to tweak it over like it was before adding the ramp? :confused:

That is all for now, but maybe will bump in with more questions as I go along discovering/tryin' things up. *Smiles and winking dashes off*

[XZminX]

1st
The submerged naga royal guard doesnt show spells because he can't use them while he's submerged.
Check to see how the submerge ability works! Perhaps it replaces units, and instead of your naga royal hero puts normal naga royal guard, dunno, check that, I would but I dont have wc3 installed currently.
What do you want to do with portrait?

2nd
So, you want to save map with ramp removed and load it so, if yes, you can always make few triggers like this:
Triggy1
Events
Map Initialization
Conditions
none (since this is init trigger)
Actions
IF RemoveRampInteger==1 THEN Remove Ramp (under doodad I think) ELSE Do nothing

Triggy2
Events
Any events that triggers the ramp removal in game (you may also run this trigger from another trigger)
Conditions
none needed
Actions
Set RemoveRampInteger=1
Game Cache - Store integer RemoveRampInteger in last created game cache (I suppose you have created game cache earlier since you're going to save map progress)
Remove Ramp

[Basan]

1st
The submerged naga royal guard doesnt show spells because he can't use them while he's submerged.
Check to see how the submerge ability works! Perhaps it replaces units, and instead of your naga royal hero puts normal naga royal guard, dunno, check that, I would but I dont have wc3 installed currently.
What do you want to do with portrait?

...

I know that units under the water aren't supposed to show any button than the undoing abillity one but mine shows the regular command ones also, wich I don't want it to ('cause then the alternate form moves around showing the N.Royal Guard looks and gets back under the waves after it reaches to point told). :concern:

And I did. :P In fact, that's why I said that have edited the abillity (in the 1st place) to have it's normal look like the N.Sea Witch and left the alternate one as default (read Submerged N.Royal Guard) due to leave the SFX working.
I want the (submerged) unit to show it's spells because I can't get them to be showed nor used after the 1st unsubmerge stunt. To prevent that hero from losing the level reached (and eventually the hero spells thing) had changes it's proper name to have only one string, but still must test it to see if it works.
Since I don't want the hero to lose all the items grabbed while getting under water (similar to it's spells and their level) have added the "Inventory (Hero)" in it's normal abillities to the alternate unit form, wich worked btw.

The portrait of the alternate form showing up (read submerged N.Royal guard) ... Well, to be honest I just want it to look like the hero just 'cause am a neat freak (or so was named before) and really didn't want that loose end when playing the map. :lame:

As for the solution in point 2... thanks for the tip. :tup:

Now for newer questions:
3rd - Is there a way to make a regular unit to become a hero in mapping? That perhaps would solve my issue with the submerge abillity, commands and hero spells.

4th - Is there a way to make a melee map where the Naga are a slelctable race?
I assume that this would most likely involve setting an *.wai file for'em and tweaking a lot with the melee initialization trigger (or even the game system) to pull off. And if there's another way to do it, please let me know. *Smiles eagerly for a 'good' solution*

5th - Is there a way to extract the WC3: ROC campaigns out from the game files for me to peep under it's hood and learn how they did some stuff?
I already possess the knowledge on how to extract files from within the game (*.mpq storing files) and did that to the TFT campaign maps just to see how Illidan could be spawned from the Naga Altar and if locations were used and/or recycled to that extent. :)

Side note: Btw, I've got some experience in SC mapping so it may ease things a bit (in my understanding universe) when explaining this mapping stuff if fellas provide cross references. *Wink, wink*

[XZminX]

why do you enjoy writing so long boring posts??? stop it! Be short and straight! I don't get it what you want to do BTW.

3)Offcourse. The easiest way is to pick a starting hero, like a Paladin and change its model file to Peasant (and you got there a peasant hero). Then you edit the spells and attributes and all you like.

4) sure there is. But you know that you cant pick Naga before the game starts. So, you need to make a Dialog Box that will run at the start of the game (not from map initialization). If player chooses Naga for his race, you just create Naga main building, a wood chopper and few slaves (they collect gold), give some gold and wood to player. You also need to remove Melee Initialization actions and do same for each race that player chooses.

5) You are funny... campaigns are also in the mpq archive. There are in the normal map format.

[Basan]

why do you enjoy writing so long boring posts??? stop it! Be short and straight! I don't get it what you want to do BTW.

*Lol* The map editor contians so many setting that would require changing imo, that most of the times I get sorta lost 'within the translation' to guess what is what n' similars. I'll try to be more straight forward, from now on. ;)

Now getting back to bussines... Edited the special unit required to the abillity and the abillity itself along with the N.Hero but or it loses all the hero learned spells and skill level afther 1st unsubmerge move.
And the submerged unit is allowed to move, wich I really didn't want to 'cause then it shows the Royal Guard form and not the N.Hero one. Same goes for the portrait (it shows the R.Guard when the unit is under water). I don't want to lose the Bubbley SFX, so wanted to keep the alternate form as it's default usually is.

3)Offcourse. The easiest way is to pick a starting hero, like a Paladin and change its model file to Peasant (and you got there a peasant hero). Then you edit the spells and attributes and all you like.


4) sure there is. But you know that you cant pick Naga before the game starts. So, you need to make a Dialog Box that will run at the start of the game (not from map initialization). If player chooses Naga for his race, you just create Naga main building, a wood chopper and few slaves (they collect gold), give some gold and wood to player. You also need to remove Melee Initialization actions and do same for each race that player chooses.

5) You are funny... campaigns are also in the mpq archive. There are in the normal map format.

3rd - *Rofl That's what I get 'cause wasn't specific enough. If I want to add a new hero, other than the already existing that only can be done with modding, right?
/me wonders if there are any similarities to the SC modding universe*

4th - Thanks a million. :tup: That's what I (really) suspected. It has to be done the harder way around... no recycling triggers for it.

5th - Messy, sloppy work. That's what I get from posting from the PC at work. :concern:
I've seen the *.mpq's with more detail and noticed that you're correct, but also realized that the expansion Orc levels, called "Bonus Campaign" don't appear to be all there. It only shows me the 1st level and all scenarios that derive from it to get the quests done.

[hooded]

if you look at the special under the naga catagory, there is a 'submerged royal gaurd' or somthing like that. You need to create a 'submerged naga hero person' type of unit, with no move speed, and only the submerge ability that the original hero had, in short:

alternate unit type: 'submerged naga hero person'
original unit type: 'naga hero person'

if you dont want to loose the effect, you can try changing the model art of the submerged guy to bubbles (the doodad), but this will negate the portrait.

[AHREN34]

Just go to: http://wc3sear.ch they have a ton of stuff you can use!!!!

[Zipsco]

OMG yes, with XZminX on this one, thank god that you have gotten the answer to this one already :D

[Basan]

if you look at the special under the naga catagory, there is a 'submerged royal gaurd' or somthing like that. You need to create a 'submerged naga hero person' type of unit, with no move speed, and only the submerge ability that the original hero had, in short:

alternate unit type: 'submerged naga hero person'
original unit type: 'naga hero person'

if you dont want to loose the effect, you can try changing the model art of the submerged guy to bubbles (the doodad), but this will negate the portrait.

Thanks for the tips. Will try that when I get home. ;)

Just go to: http://wc3sear.ch they have a ton of stuff you can use!!!!

Thanks for the tip, but that's actually to where the WC3 Tools thread directed me and have already been there to get enhanced editors. :smirk:

OMG yes, with XZminX on this one, thank god that you have gotten the answer to this one already :D

Really? And me thinking that Hooded in fact gave me a more pleasing answer... will have to edit the submerged default model unit to a doodad SFX. That way the hero which acts as the normal form won't be messed up after surfacing and it'll look better in game play than the actual option config'. But other ideas / solutions are always welcome... :)

[Zipsco]

BASAN, it was a notice to the length of your posts, as XZminX also commented :D nothing to do with the actual post, iam really sorry, but iam not bored ENOUGH to read a novell... All those quotes takes the enchusiasm out of me, sorry. Good luck with your models.

[Basan]

BASAN, it was a notice to the length of your posts, as XZminX also commented :D nothing to do with the actual post, iam really sorry, but iam not bored ENOUGH to read a novell... All those quotes takes the enchusiasm out of me, sorry. Good luck with your models.

When posted this I've had already noticed your 'helping comment' in other thread, hence my snappy reply. If you want to, next time will add the sarcasm bit, just so you know it was one for sure... :P
/me begins comparing with the helping mood at the SC area and gets somewhat disappointed (since expected a similar one in here) * ;)

[Zipsco]

Sorry Basan, it was not to say that the enthusiasm for helping with war3 isnt as high as for the SC forums, it was just a quick comment... See what i think is that, you really explain you problems quite well, but by doing so you make your posts quite large, and as for many who come right into your post, and have to read all of them, and not just the first, this seems like a big task, and many would skip them, I wasn't just doing it to be a sarcastic moron, though iam sometimes. the problem posts are best to be keept Precise, which you handle with glory, but also short/simpel. Though sometimes it requires a big post, and please pay attention to the fact that i only answered like this, when i say it not the first, and not the second by sometime around the third i saw.

Well enough of all this chitchat, did you actually ever get an answer? if not i hope you do.

Zipsco

[Basan]

Sorry Basan, it was not to say that the enthusiasm for helping with war3 isnt as high as for the SC forums, it was just a quick comment... See what i think is that, you really explain you problems quite well, but by doing so you make your posts quite large, and as for many who come right into your post, and have to read all of them, and not just the first, this seems like a big task, and many would skip them, I wasn't just doing it to be a sarcastic moron, though iam sometimes. the problem posts are best to be keept Precise, which you handle with glory, but also short/simpel. Though sometimes it requires a big post, and please pay attention to the fact that i only answered like this, when i say it not the first, and not the second by sometime around the third i saw.

Well enough of all this chitchat, did you actually ever get an answer? if not i hope you do.

Thanks, I might've sounded a neat freak as well. :P Alas, it comes with the trade and sometime I don't even notice it at 1st glance (only when re-reading). I've sorta grown to explain thoroughly things (trade related or not) so folks don't have much doubts afterwards. If you see most my helpin' around the SC area is a clear evidence of that, but if it's a good or bad thing... that I wouldn't really know or wanna comment further. ;)

Well, last night I was in the mood for WC3 mapping and went over it (in the small amount of time spent at it) trying to find the SFX bubbles path in the game *.mpq's to set the alternate form into those (at the editor). Unfortunetly, no cigar for me. :(
Have tweaked a lil' with it to see if grasped other options and got the game to crash at a submerging test. That or getting the unit to lose it's skills when unsubmerged the 1st time and afterwards that point getting mixed for a normal unit in case of melee hero limits (usually 3). :P
Conclusion, so far: Guess that I'll have to put aside that Naga hero submerge abillity thing in the end... :mad:

[Zipsco]

May i just laugh, damn you went through alot to make that work, may i surgest the same as in your conclusion... give the naga hero another ability, no ability is worth spending so much time over. Good luck with further development!

[hooded]

is this what you are looking for?? i havnt tested non hero skills yet, but the hero skills stay after submerging/unsubmerging...

[Basan]

Thanks a million Hooded, I'll test drive it tonight. :tup:
I was thinking to addapt it from the Evil Illidan morph abbility, but wth ya saved me the hassle of pin finding and/or configuring it. :D

Add: Obviously enough, I'll compare what you did to what I had before that play test. ;)

[Basan]

Since it has been a couple of days from my last post, I'll tell ya my results for it... *Yay* it freakin' worked (read, my submerged unit was modded from Lady Vash), but had to remove the submerged unit attack in order to keep it similar to other submerging abillities. :D
Now I can tell ya my real idea for it, to only allow hit points (and perhaps mana, ain't quite decided yet) regeneration when the unit is submerged. Hence, making those 'watery pit stops' a must (and hoping to keep the game balanced even if this hero as one more normal ability than the rest).

Edit add: My tweaked test map is at Ashenvale terrain, therefore the usual Tavern there has a few less heroes than in other terrains but to compensate that, I've added a Ranger hero (modded from Sylvanas Windrunner in the campaigns). The only problem is that now the number of heroes limit is 4, even when I copy-pasted hero limits from other heroes sold at the tavern and made the added unit a melee, creep race one. What can I do to fix that mess? :confused: