Modding Tutorial Missing

[MidnightGladius]

I have decided to enter the field of modding, and have been poking around SC.org's databases.

There are numerous references to a tutorial made by ChauSara. However, no such document exists.

I seem to remember from some time ago such a tutorial making news at SC.org, but as I stated earlier, it seems to have vanished.

In any case, I would either like the tutorial (which, if I remember correctly, contained all of the basics that I wish to understand) or a similar tutorial that outlines all of the technical procedures in modifying values with Arsenal III and creating MPQ files.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: I'm been messing around with various things and created a set of folders as specified by the MPQCompacter readme. It creates the text file but not the mpq file as it stated it would. I have a "test" folder with an "arr" folder in it, and then the .dat file inside the "arr" folder. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

[Aqo]

You should save the WinMPQ.exe in the same folder as MPQCompacter, than just drag the 'test' folder above the MPQCompacter as if you'd put it into another folder, and an *.mpq should appear.

I'd also post some tutorials that DarkSoul have made back in the day, which he sent me in a PM, but for some reason now that I view that PM there's nothing there... maybe if he's still visiting WBs he'll post em' himself.

[MidnightGladius]

Thank you greatly. Now I just have to start to comphrehend the rest of this stuff :/

EDIT: How do I use TBLPad? It would sure be a lot easier if the readme's actually had some useful information.

EDIT2: I went to SEN and found the TBLPad tutorial. Thanks, LW :D. In any case, my TBLPad is in Spanish... any way around that?

[Basan]

... In any case, my TBLPad is in Spanish... any way around that?

Weird, but funny. I understand Spanish very well and mine is in plain English (altough prefer the last language over the 1st spoken of). :D

Where did ya get your version of the thing, anyway? :confused:
If you're not able to find an English one, just tell me and I'll be more than glad to mail you mine. :)

[BSTRhino]

Ah yes, I still have ChauSara's modding tutorial, but you know, I actually was planning to rewrite it or getting someone else to rewrite it, because it's not very descriptive the way it's written now.

Thank you greatly. Now I just have to start to comphrehend the rest of this stuff :/

EDIT: How do I use TBLPad? It would sure be a lot easier if the readme's actually had some useful information.

EDIT2: I went to SEN and found the TBLPad tutorial. Thanks, LW :D. In any case, my TBLPad is in Spanish... any way around that?
Yes, that language thing is one of the first things that most modders get, I should put the answer to this in the FAQ.

When you extract rez\stat_txt.tbl from the MPQ, notice that there are about six versions of it listed one after the other that you could extract? Each one is a different language. The one that has the language ID of 0 is the English one, so make sure you extract that one, not any of the others.

[MidnightGladius]

No, the actual program itself is in Spanish. As in the toolbars. I managed to get the english stat_txt, so it's not really a big issue right now.

Should I post questions here, or in another thread?

[BSTRhino]

Wow, I have no idea why your TblPad is in Spanish. Where did you download it from? If you downloaded it from StarCraft.org I had better check that out.

I'd prefer it if you asked your questions in this thread, but I'm not strict about those things. As long as you're not filling the first page with new topics created every two minutes.

[StealthyDeath]

Please don't put back the ones I did. They are so horribly written whenever I look back at it I wish I had never done it.

The TBLPad on Starcraft.org is not in Spanish btw.

[MidnightGladius]

Actually, it was sitting in my hard drive from the last time I attempted to mod (around 2-3 years back. Not that this does not mean that I have any experience whatsoever). So I seriously have no idea where I dled it.

EDIT:

Say I want to create Infantry units out of Siege Tanks and Goliaths. The turrets and subunits are making this process very annoying indeed. I managed to modify the marine, firebat, ghost, and vulture easily so that they're all infantry (This mod will essentially make the Terrans a completely ground-based infantry force, using Medics to consolidate). I considered modding the techtree so that the factory built raynors and kerrigans, built memgraft can't handle Blizzard's blitzkrieg patching campaign.

How would I just disable the entire turret thing and just make it a "regular" unit?

[Aqo]

Open the Arsenal III unit editor, select the goliath, open the 'Graphics' tab, and down on subunits change 'Goliath Turret' to 'none'. Do the same with the Siege Tank and the deployed Siege Tank.

[MidnightGladius]

Yes, I tried that, but now the Siege Tank and Goliath won't attack.

Also, how do I get units that normally can't attack (Medic in this case) to attack? I gave the Medic a weapon, but she won't use it. If I'm getting into something too complicated, tell me and I'll just leave it alone.

[Aqo]

Yes, I tried that, but now the Siege Tank and Goliath won't attack.

Also, how do I get units that normally can't attack (Medic in this case) to attack? I gave the Medic a weapon, but she won't use it. If I'm getting into something too complicated, tell me and I'll just leave it alone.
Well, for the Siege Tank and the Goliath just add an attack on the unit - it originally doesn't have one, the turret has it instead, but now there's no turret.
As for the medic, after you give it the weapon, open ICE, and copy the attack scripts from the marine to the medic.

[MidnightGladius]

Hmm, I copied the coding in from the Marine's Ground Attack Animation and Repeat Ground Animation, and now the Medic is crashing upon existance (as in if you click the build medic icon or there's a medic on the map), it crashes painfully, requiring a manual shut-down and restart.

Any ideas here?

[Basan]

Hmm, I copied the coding in from the Marine's Ground Attack Animation and Repeat Ground Animation, and now the Medic is crashing upon existance (as in if you click the build medic icon or there's a medic on the map), it crashes painfully, requiring a manual shut-down and restart.

Any ideas here?

I do recall that the Zeji & Mekani mod had Medics attacking (Vult' weapon), but the attack button didn't appear or so I believe. If you can get your hands into it's *.exe, just try to open it with WinMPQ to see if you can extract any valid files to tweak with in order to find out how it was done.
Or maybe you're forgetting a small step along the way (in your mod). Is it a patch or already an *.exe that does that automatically (read, doesn't need the patch file near it now 'cause it already re-routes SC entries)? :confused:

[MidnightGladius]

No, I know that the button won't be there (since I would need memgraft 1.13d or a similar program for that).

Hmm, extracting the iscript.bin file sounds to me like a good idea. Thanks!

[MidnightGladius]

I wouldn't be double posting, except that editting doesn't seem to count as an unread post.

I extracted a script file from Terran Doom, but the headers are all wrong. Could anyone explain this to me?

Also, what exactly is the nature of offsets?

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

I extracted a script file from Terran Doom, but the headers are all wrong. Could anyone
explain this to me?
Any scripts that was used on 'ICECC' kinda messes it up for 'ICE'.



Also, what exactly is the nature of offsets
Attack Animation, Initial Animation, etc... is an offset.

And for the medic, copy the VULTERS animation: Attack Animation and Repeated Attack Animation. Make sure you don't copy the 'return idle from attack' animation.

[MidnightGladius]

Thanks for the information, but bear with my ignorance, please.

Why would copying the vulture's attack scripts not have the same effect as copying the marine's attack scripts?

EDIT: Hmm, it still appears that the Medic is not attacking. At least the game isn't crashing, now. :/

For some background information, I made one of the unused Gauss Rifle slots essentially a Seeker Spore-graphics weapon. I gave it the maximum range, checked the "Ground" box, and all of that.

The Medic shows the weapon icon and label, but just won't attack.

[Basan]

Midnight', wich max range are we speaking of? If it was above 11, even I know that it usually messes heavily with SC. :)

Unused slots in SC - either for units, upgrades, weapons, yada yada - weren't used by Blizz' for some good reason and usually give heaps of work to iron out their glitchy behaviour (when modding is involved) with the game engine.
I'm not sure but if you give the Medic the (hero) Vult's attack and then change it to look what you want it to be, it just might do the trick... or so that's what I'd try 1st. ;)

[MidnightGladius]

Well, the Siege Tank has a max range of 24, and my Ghost has one of 18. There aren't crashing. :/

I'll look into what you said, though. Thanks.

EDIT: Nope, Medic still doesn't work.

Also, how do I get a Doom Dragon Archon effect (the continuous attack if you don't re-select target)? Can I do that with ICE alone?

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

Thanks for the information, but bear with my ignorance, please.

Why would copying the vulture's attack scripts not have the same effect as copying the marine's attack scripts?

Couse the vulter only attacks, while the marine does some animation (Play fram 'x', etc...). One of the thing I learn that couses crashing while playing with ice, is when you tell a unit to play a bad animation it will crash in game or something else bad.

Ex. If you tell the medic to play frame 310, which is doesn't have (medic only have up to 229) itl make the game crash.

To make the medic attack, you goto use Arsnel 3 and change its orders. <Pictures>

It might not show the attack button (needs stargraft or memgraft) but it will attack an enemy automatically. I never tried this for a medic but I think the medic heal won't work correclty now.

EDITED: And I dont think unused weapons really have any glitches, I use them many times, they work fine for me.

[MidnightGladius]

Okay, I never thought of changing AI actions... I kinda thought that was AI-related. :/

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

Wanna know that those mean? (through what I know)

Computer Idle- What itl do when its under computer controll.
Human Idle- What itl do when its in human controll.
Unknown- Basically whats its going to do under any controll???
Attack Target: What should it do when it whants to attack the target.
Attack Move: What should it do when its attacking while its walking.

[BSTRhino]

Hmmm, I'll see how well I can answer your questions. I think you're going real well with modding by the way, you look like you could go far.

For making the medic attack, here's my list of checkpoints that you would need to cover to get a medic to attack.
Give it a ground or air weapon in units.dat. I bet you've done this already.
Make sure your unit has "Attack" and "Auto Attack and Move" ticked in its advanced tab. The medic will already have these set if I remember right, because it already picks up targets automatically, even if it isn't necessarily attacking.
In units.dat, set its orders to the same orders as an attacking unit like the Marine. I'm talking about the AI/Orders tab Toonami's already pointed you to, so you've probably already done this already.
In iscript.bin, you need to make sure your unit has the full compliment of attack animations. That is, ground attack/air attack and its return to idle from attack animations. Make sure you have an attack command in there (like "attack with appropriate weapon" or "attack with %1") for example.

Assuming the weapon you're using is already setup, those should be all the steps you need. I think it's the third step that you need to fix to get your medic attacking. I wouldn't understand why the medic would already have an attack animation, so I would expect you'd have to create one. For the medic, what I would actually do is copy its spellcasting animation and then paste it into the medic's new attack animation, then replace the "cast spell" command with an "attack with appropriate weapon" command. That would serve as a starting point, but you might have to edit things a little more, for example, there is an "UNKNOWN 0x44" command with the medic which may or may not crash the game if it's not removed from the Medic's attack animation.

I think this is so much easier to do in IceCC, especially the copying part, but it's your choice. The thing is, if you're serious about modding and you choose to use ICE, one day your skills will reach the limit of ICE and you'll have to switch to IceCC in the end anyway. It'll be easier for you to start with IceCC from this point if you think that one day you will be switching to it anyway.

Okay, I never thought of changing AI actions... I kinda thought that was AI-related. :/
Heh, yes, the thing about a lot of the modding programs is, you'll find that they have a lot of parts to them that aren't quite labelled like they should be once you understand them. That's because when they were created, the files weren't fully researched to the point they are now. This is kind of an example, but not quite. I think King Arthur wanted to stress that the AI/Orders tab controls the AI used by units so that's why he gave the tab the name "AI/Orders." But officially that tab just contains a list of orders for the unit, and the orders are referencing the entries in orders.dat. But yeah, what I'm saying is, don't always trust labels in modding programs, if I did that then none of the Doom mods could ever be made.

Midnight', wich max range are we speaking of? If it was above 11, even I know that it usually messes heavily with SC. :)

Unused slots in SC - either for units, upgrades, weapons, yada yada - weren't used by Blizz' for some good reason and usually give heaps of work to iron out their glitchy behaviour (when modding is involved) with the game engine.
I'm not sure but if you give the Medic the (hero) Vult's attack and then change it to look what you want it to be, it just might do the trick... or so that's what I'd try 1st. ;)
Basan's talking about the sight range. If the sight range to a unit is set to a value greater than 11, the game will crash.

I agree with what Toonami says about unused slots. They're perfectly fine to use, if they lead to glitchy behaviour it's the fault of the modder, there's nothing about the unused slot that causes glitchy behaviour because for the most part, all the slots are the same. It's just that, kind of like when you create a new unit, often you need to master a lot of things before being able to use an unused slot, because when you're using an unused slot, nothing is already done for you, so you need to do all the work yourself.

Also, how do I get a Doom Dragon Archon effect (the continuous attack if you don't re-select target)? Can I do that with ICE alone?
You're talking about giving this kind of weapon to, say, the Archon, right? Because graphically, I don't know what it'd look like to have that effect on the Hydralisk.

I actually have two ways to do this, the difference between them is one is capable of working with a long cooldown (see the Devourer in Zerg Doom.) I'll tell you how I did the Archon in Doom Dragoon, but you can ask how the Zerg Doom one was done if you like. I gave the Archon a really short cooldown in Doom Dragoon, and then made it so that the Archon didn't go back into "rest position" unless the "return to idle from attack" animation was run. That's all there is to it. I coded it in a special way using some advanced commands, but that was completely unnecessary, you can really do it any way you like.

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

I must warn you MidnightGladius, modding can be very addicting.

[MidnightGladius]

Well, thanks a lot, BSTRhino. When I put a little bit of effort into things, they usually end up pretty well done (my teachers say I simply have a lack of motivation, which I'm trying to get around/rid of).

I've got the Medic's attack working, but only at melee range. When it tries to attack from range, the game crashes. I'll look at what you've said on the matter, and that should clear it up.

I'll DL IceCC and see how it feels to me. Right now, ICE is being a nuisance because the text doesn't show up in the menus unless i highlight it.

I want the continual attack graphic with the Goliath. I'll try out your method and see if it works.

I appreciate your help a lot.

EDIT: Acknowledged, Toonami. :D

Also, how would I get a unit that can only attack ground to attack air (in this case, I'm getting a Siege Tank to use a Gauss Rifle when un-sieged)?

[BSTRhino]

Well, thanks a lot, BSTRhino. When I put a little bit of effort into things, they usually end up pretty well done (my teachers say I simply have a lack of motivation, which I'm trying to get around/rid of).
And I think that's really cool. I'll remember that, because it will really count when we reopen the Starchitects sign-ups. I always judge people on their personality and their potential when letting people into the Starchitects, so that counts for a lot.

I've got the Medic's attack working, but only at melee range. When it tries to attack from range, the game crashes. I'll look at what you've said on the matter, and that should clear it up.
What are you using as your weapon? This couldn't be caused by the way you've edited your unit unless you had a range-based setting in your iscript or something like that.

Also, how would I get a unit that can only attack ground to attack air (in this case, I'm getting a Siege Tank to use a Gauss Rifle when un-sieged)?
There are only two bits you really need to do.
1. Give the unit an air weapon in units.dat.
2. Give the unit air attack animations in iscript.bin. The air attack animations are initial air attack animation, repeated air attack animation and return to idle from air attack.

If you're not sure what to write for the animations, copy the ground ones and modify them.

[MidnightGladius]

The Medics' attack uses the 2nd Fragmentation Grenade entry as a base (attacks ground only), uses the sprite of a Seeker Spore, seeks the target, has a range of 5, no splash, and does concussive damage.

I copied the vulture's initial ground attack animation, the repeated animation, and the return from idle.

And thanks for the second bit of information. You see, my modified Siege Tank uses the Gauss Rifle when in Tank Mode and a modified Yamato Gun while sieged.

[BSTRhino]

That sounds like it should be causing no problems actually. With the way you have edited the medic, I can't see any range dependence being introduced into the system, so... I don't know...

[MidnightGladius]

Meh, I'll just go to sleep and worry about it tomorrow.

[Basan]

EDITED: And I dont think unused weapons really have any glitches, I use them many times, they work fine for me.

I agree with what Toonami says about unused slots. They're perfectly fine to use, if they lead to glitchy behaviour it's the fault of the modder, there's nothing about the unused slot that causes glitchy behaviour because for the most part, all the slots are the same. It's just that, kind of like when you create a new unit, often you need to master a lot of things before being able to use an unused slot, because when you're using an unused slot, nothing is already done for you, so you need to do all the work yourself.

Ok (you two), it was my fault then. Don't rub it in further... :) I do need to get around it more often to get confy enough to really try it up (only tried to mod existing units since the others gave monumental hassles). And will also try your hint about IceCC as well, BST'. ;)

[MidnightGladius]

Hmm, I've given the Siege Tank an air weapon by giving it the Gauss Rifle entry in weapons.dat and giving it an iscript.

However, it will now play the animation but do no damage (compared to crashing).

The Medic works now, but it's impossible to micro since you have to use the "stop" command and let the AI find the target instead of manually attacking.

I'm thinking of removing the "wait 1 ticks" from the attack, which from my presumptions would make it attack at once when in stand-by.

[BSTRhino]

Hmm, I've given the Siege Tank an air weapon by giving it the Gauss Rifle entry in weapons.dat and giving it an iscript.

However, it will now play the animation but do no damage (compared to crashing).

The Medic works now, but it's impossible to micro since you have to use the "stop" command and let the AI find the target instead of manually attacking.

I'm thinking of removing the "wait 1 ticks" from the attack, which from my presumptions would make it attack at once when in stand-by.
Great, it's good to hear the Medic works now. You can remove the wait 1 ticks command and that should make the unit attack at once. Try it out. (you might want to backup your file just in case.)

The siege tank playing an animation that does no damage. Hmmm... the first thing that springs to mind is maybe the weapon doesn't have both its "Ground" and "Air" boxes ticked in the weapon damage properties part of the weapons.dat editor in Arsenal III. But if you're using the Gauss Rifle that the marine uses, those should already be ticked. I can't think of anything else obvious, tell me whether that one fixes it all.

[MidnightGladius]

Well, removing the "wait 1 tick" does cause the Medic to attack instantly. That doesn't mean, however, that you can micro it (guess I'll have to wait for memgraft before I can do that).

Nope, Siege Tank guns still don't work. For the air attack, I'm using the "attack with appropriate weapon" command. Is there a problem with that?