How to defend against BM harrass?

[Yoda]

Whenever I verse orcs (recently) they windwalk a BM into my base, and take off a few lumber wisps. Even though I usually buy the "Dust of Appearance" , he can still take off some before being on low health from my DH, and having to Windwalk out again. (where he is moving twice as fast ). Often if the wisp is about to die I detonate it in his face. And fortunately, they never do it after the first five minutes, and usually don't attack in enough time for me to recover from it.

What is the best way for me to defend myself against this, so I don't lose so many lumber wisps early on to BM harrass.

One thing I thought of, but haven't done yet, was putting all my lumber wisps on a different part of the map. Good idea?

[Dayoh]

ok so u put ur wisps on trees in a line build MW's close to them on auto heal so anyrush on wisps will be futile and why not go potm first and get owl scout it always gets em, if a rushing BM on lvl 1 cant WW he cant to shit.

[Scauthra]

You should have a hero out about the time his BM arrives, if he attacks your wisp, detonate, or send it to your moonwell to replenish. If you detonate and kill his mana, he'll be unable to get experience, and windwalk. So while your hero pecks at him, he's getting no exp, may not be able to windwalk, and only sets you back a tiny bit. If a Orc harasses with BM, the chances are theier going right for tech. So counter quickly but wisely.

Latly i've been picking NE myself, and except for NE, it's easy for me to harass with Warden, and 1-2 Archers. By that time it's night fall, and if it's bad, I meld. I'm not getting anything done but he's not either if he's sitting in his base waiting for me to reveal. So while I tech up or build an army, i'm watching him tech up or build an army. I'll know exactly what he's doing before the sun rises. If he moves his units and heros to creep, unmeld and pick off more units. The reason why against NE it fails is pretty much the moonwells healing the damage done, and detonation killing mana.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Whenever I verse orcs (recently) they windwalk a BM into my base, and take off a few lumber wisps. Even though I usually buy the "Dust of Appearance" , he can still take off some before being on low health from my DH, and having to Windwalk out again. (where he is moving twice as fast ). Often if the wisp is about to die I detonate it in his face. And fortunately, they never do it after the first five minutes, and usually don't attack in enough time for me to recover from it.

What is the best way for me to defend myself against this, so I don't lose so many lumber wisps early on to BM harrass.

One thing I thought of, but haven't done yet, was putting all my lumber wisps on a different part of the map. Good idea?

There are a number of different counters against this for a Night-Elfr player. The first, and most popular with gosu players, is to wall in your wisps. Build Moon Wells, your Altar and Barracks close to your wisps so that the Blademaster has a tough time getting to them. At the same time, however, make sure that your wisps can get in and out of the blockade to build stuff.

Secondly, and something that goes hand in hand with the walling-in idea very well, is to micro wisps to and from the moon wells. More often than not, your reflexes will not be good enough to save the first wisp, as the extra damage done means it's almost dead. You could auto-cast your wells but they do take their time! Plus I'm not entirely sure whether they work on gathering wisps.

If you have forgotten to wall in your wisps, micro them to the gold mine or the Moon Wells, whichever is nearer. Set your Gold Mine to an easily accessible group, guide the wisp to it, take a wisp out and put the damaged one in. While micro-intensive, it's a great way to annoy the guy and doesn't take mana out of your Moon Wells.

Dust of Appearance is good, and depending on what hero you play against Orc, you can slow him down while he's dusted. Unfortunately, Warden is the only one that can (NSW could but no-one chooses it as first hero! :) ), and not too many people play Warden vs Orc, but it's a possibility. A cheaper option is to get Hawk with the Beastmaster, which also works later against Orc player due to the large amount of heavily armoured units they use (if they go Gruntapult go Quil/Hawk/Hawk or Hawk/Quil/Hawk for a strong extra unit early on).

If you just plain don't like all this stuff, choose a 4 player map. Unless your opponent is lucky and picks the mine you're at to rush, he'll probably choose to scout. Scouts with a peon, stay on your guard. He'll probably have lost the element of surprise anyway. Scouts with wolves, don't bother about Blademaster because he hasn't got it.

Hope this helps.

[xodkrm]

Go harass his sorry ass b4 he harasses you.

[Yoda]

Ok, thanks for your help, (since I lost another game before reading this due to being harrassed). I'll wall in my wisps, and heal with moon wells, if necessary.

No-ones mentioned scattering the wisps in a different part of the map? Is that a good idea?

On xodkrm's comment, maybe I should harrass them instead, probably best with KOTG or a Warden maybe.

[cole]

Yes you can scatter wisps, thats actually what i do. Not only does it reveal parts of the map but it can lead to creep jack oppurtunitys as well. But make sure you still keep at least 2 wisps at base for build/repair/detonate purposes. Build wells near wisp and once you see the BM come turns wells on auto heal and mana burn him till his bm crys. He usally gets 1 wisp if hes good but by then hell have to spend 170 gold on a salve and clarity compared to the 60 gold you have to spend on onewisp and wisp dont give alot of exp anyways. Oh and i forgot, if he gets a wisp in low hp and you cant heal it in time, just detonate and he doesnt get exp and loses mana.

[GenocideAlive]

Usually the problem with scattering wisps is that if he gets air and starts flapping around the map to creep or whatever, he's going to find practically all of your wisps. There's little you can do at that point besides detonate, and that doesn't really solve the problem. If you're teching while he finds some of your wisps, it can hurt your lumber pretty bad.

If you set up a wall properly, BMs won't really be able to reach the vast majority of your wisps. He'll waste his time running around trying to reach them. Once he figures out that he CAN'T reach them, he may start smacking a building or something equally stupid. Just stick a Staff of TP on your DH and keep creeping with the rest of your units. Mana Burn the shit out of him.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Usually the problem with scattering wisps is that if he gets air and starts flapping around the map to creep or whatever, he's going to find practically all of your wisps. There's little you can do at that point besides detonate, and that doesn't really solve the problem. If you're teching while he finds some of your wisps, it can hurt your lumber pretty bad.

If you set up a wall properly, BMs won't really be able to reach the vast majority of your wisps. He'll waste his time running around trying to reach them. Once he figures out that he CAN'T reach them, he may start smacking a building or something equally stupid. Just stick a Staff of TP on your DH and keep creeping with the rest of your units. Mana Burn the shit out of him.

Hmmm, never thought of if that way. What if you don't use a DH vs. Orc and (like me) go mass summons? Mid to late-game I generally buy a Dust from a shop that I've creeped, then run back and hope to catch the BM unawares, slowing him down with the Dryads and (with any luck) nailing him before he can get away. Unless of course I'm about to attack my opponent's base, in which case the guy either has to fight without a hero for however long, or teleport and waste 350 Gold on just teleporting a hero...

[cole]

Air is tier 2 though and wisps can be a bitch to find and are pretty easily overlooked at times.

[GenocideAlive]

Air is tier 2 though and wisps can be a bitch to find and are pretty easily overlooked at times.
Do you bring all your wisps back to base after tier 1? It seems like you'd lose a lot of lumber gathering time and endanger the wisps if they got caught. But if it works, it works.

What you need against the Blademaster is generally either a disabling spell (Cyclone, Entangle, etc.) or something to protect yourself (Rejuv, Staff). Preferably both, because at L5 he's pretty much guaranteed unassisted INT hero kills with the Orb of Lit. If you get a KotG early with hunts, he can be total murder on the BM.

Entangle cancels the Staff of TP (which good BM users always bring), and the BM isn't much for spell damage + FF. Just make sure that you Entangle, FF, then use Dust in that order. He can't take much. If you bring Faerie Fire, it's game over for the Blademaster. He'll have no tricks left.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

If you bring Faerie Fire, it's game over for the Blademaster. He'll have no tricks left.

I don't think people realise the usefulness of Faerie Fire against Orc players. It's saved my life in so many games, because people always Wind Walk the Blademaster when he's on about 100hp, not when you're starting to FF him. And due to that, and the fact that he's oblivious to the fact he has Faerie Fire on him, he dies. If only people would Wind Walk earlier and they would save themselves so much trouble. And a hero.