Worse world wide disasters of all time?

[Scauthra]

For the past two days, while watching the coverage of the hurricane, a thought popped in and out of my head 'is this the worse disaster to fall before mankind to date?' I didn't think of only natural disasters either, earthquakes come to mind, Tsunamis, I also thought about manmade disasters. 9/11, Vietnam, Hollocaust, bombing of Hiroshima and such.

Even though Katrina is still going on, from what we've seen so far, it can still be introduced as one of the worse crises in history.

So my question is simple, is this the worse tragedy to occur in history to date, or do you believe one of the listed above, or other wordly known incidences(sp?) are still among the worse?

This is a serious topic, please no flaming.. and I placed it in general because I feel the topic is more of general discussion and opinions over debate and such.

[Nuts]

Actually, there was a hurricane in the first half of the century that killed upwards of 6000 people. Another killed 2500 people.

On a much worse scenario there was the Yangtze River floods which killed between 80-200 thousand people although it was never officially acknowledged by China.

[kongurous]

I think that Krakatoa was worse than Katrina, actually. If you don't know, basically, back 1883, a bigass volcano in Indonesia exploded. Yes, exploded. Most of the island was destroyed, it's still there, though. Ash was spread throughout the atmosphere. People 3,000 miles away from the explosion could hear it. People called the Fire Department because of the sky being red from the ash in the sky. They thought something was on fire, when it was really just the ash. And it's the largest eruption in recorded time, and at least 36,417 died, and 165 coastal villages were destroyed.

[singo]

The spanish flu pandemic of 1918.

Killed more people than both world wars combined if I remember correctly.

[Scauthra]

I never heard of the spanish flu pandemic, i'll have to look that up. But aside from human life loss, destruction and the impact also should be factored in, which in this case, the Volcano explosion sounds pretty bad.

[kongurous]

I never heard of the spanish flu pandemic, i'll have to look that up. But aside from human life loss, destruction and the impact also should be factored in, which in this case, the Volcano explosion sounds pretty bad.

The Spanish Flu pandemic was in like the early 1900s... hit America pretty hard, if I'm thinking about the same thing as singo.

EDIT: http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp7/asia/question879.html

[Aquarian]

The black plauge during the dark ages.It killed half of Europe's population.

[singo]

The Spanish Flu pandemic was in like the early 1900s... hit America pretty hard, if I'm thinking about the same thing as singo.


Yep, I think so. 1918-1919

http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Flu

Hmm, okay, More casulties than world war one then, not both world wars put together. Even so, 2.5-5% of the WORLD population ending up stiff and cold? THATS a disaster.

[Mattimeo]

Hmm, okay, More casulties than world war one then, not both world wars put together. Even so, 2.5-5% of the WORLD population ending up stiff and cold? THATS a disaster.

It is a big disaster, but death by disease was much more common back then. I mean by that reasoning the black death would be far and away the worst disaster ever. But you also have to take into account the cost of the damage caused by the disaster. I think hurricane charley last year was the most costly hurricane of all time in terms of damage done. That's the kind of damage we're looking at here with katrina. People know enough to get out of the way (well most do, see nuts' thread ;)) but they can't move their houses or all their belongings and therefore we have a huge financial disaster on our hands. I'm not saying that you should try to put a price on human lives, but there's another side to evaluating how damaging a disaster is.

~Don't Panic

[Ecthelion]

The flu might have been pretty deadly back then. Bubonic plague, as Aquarian said, was pretty bad, but Krakatoa was probably the worst. And whatever wiped out the dinosaurs, be it a meteor or Ice Age or disease, had to be pretty bad. Are we talking stastically or emotionally?

[Rayne]

Even so, 2.5-5% of the WORLD population ending up stiff and cold? THATS a disaster.

Well said. Although Katrina is a horrible disaster, there have been events in human history which have taken the lives of millions.

[Mattimeo]

The flu might have been pretty deadly back then. Bubonic plague, as Aquarian said, was pretty bad, but Krakatoa was probably the worst. And whatever wiped out the dinosaurs, be it a meteor or Ice Age or disease, had to be pretty bad. Are we talking stastically or emotionally?

Well if we're going to bring prehistoric disasters into the equation, then the worst disaster of all time has to be the permian-triassic extinction event. That causes 90% of all marine species and 70% of all land species on earth to go extinct. The Cretacious-Tertiary extinction event (for all you non-geologists the one the killed all those dinosaurs) only caused about 50% of all genera to go extinct.

~Don't Panic

EDIT:
After further review, the actual name of the K-T extinction was Cretacious-Tertiary, not Cretacious-Quaternary, and the numbers for the P-T extinction were 90% marine and 70% land, and the numbers for the K-T extinction were 50% of all genera. The post has been edited, and the offense will not be charged a timeout. First Down.

[singo]

It is a big disaster, but death by disease was much more common back then. I mean by that reasoning the black death would be far and away the worst disaster ever.

If it goes by percentage of population rather than total deaths then yes. A third of the world population would be what the "Black Death" caused.

But I think it should go on total NUMBER of lives lost.

And property damage might not be a factor here, because all the big disasters (krakatoa, various earthquakes, tsunamis etc) happen in the east, where, for most of history, property has not been worth all that much (looking form outside, I have no doubt the people living in it would disagree) and so, I would assume that it would balance out when compared with western disasters that tend to cause more property damage but less loss of human life.



Of course, the ULTIMATE natural disaster in terms of things killed....

The late permian mass extinction. But I assume we are talking about disasters in HUMAN history, not all time :D

[EDIT - DAMN you, beat me to it.]

[Sikawtic]

The 1918 fire of Minnesota was pretty bad.

[Ecthelion]

But even with all these disasters, the human population has never leveled out on a J-curve. We just keep multiplying like rabbits. And thank you for the history lesson Mattimeo. I didn't know that.

[singo]

But even with all these disasters, the human population has never leveled out on a J-curve. We just keep multiplying like rabbits.

Not ALL the time, like the four hundred years after the aforementioned Black Death for example


It took four hundred years before Europe's population equaled the pre-Black Death figures

Not levelled out, but kept in check for a while. unless we colonize mars pretty damn sharpish we are going to need another one I think......

[Ecthelion]

If a biological weapon is ever detonated, that'll definately top the charts.

I heard somewhere they're trying to reengineer Black Plague. Maybe we derserve extinction if we're that stupid. Why would you want to recreate one of mankinds deadliest diseases, if not the deadliest? Just attach a neon sign to the vial exclaiming "Terrorists Only!"

[singo]

If a biological weapon is ever detonated, that'll definately top the charts.

I heard somewhere they're trying to reengineer Black Plague. Maybe we derserve extinction if we're that stupid. Why would you want to recreate one of mankinds deadliest diseases, if not the deadliest?

Not necassarily, most biological weapons are not apocalyptically powerful, and if one does go off the quarantine will come down faster than the meteorite that killed off the dinosaurs and thus limit the spread of infection (See 28 Days later).

As to WHY re-engineer it? Possibly to find a cure in case it happens again?

[Ecthelion]

Who knows why reengineer? People are really stupid. And I did see 28 Days Later and hated every minute of it.

[Sikawtic]

Some MN fire stuff:

453 lives lost (not too large a number I spose...)
52,000 homes lost. Ouch.
38 Communities destroyed <--- very ouch.

[Mattimeo]

But even with all these disasters, the human population has never leveled out on a J-curve. We just keep multiplying like rabbits. And thank you for the history lesson Mattimeo. I didn't know that.

Just doing my job. The thing about our population leveling out is a valid point. But you need to look closer than that. The population in places like Europe and the United States is relatively stable like the population curves of most mammals. Where the population explosions are occuring are places like Africa and Southeast Asia. That's why when you look at projections for the largest cities in the world in the future you see places like Bombay, Kolkatta, Jakarta, Lagos, and other such cities where the population is booming. It isn't that humans aren't capable of ZPG, it's just that it hasn't happened in some places.

~Don't Panic

[singo]

38 Communities destroyed <--- very ouch.

What constitues a "community"?

Because in my experience "community" means a lot of meaningless things

[Modred]

I heard somewhere they're trying to reengineer Black Plague.
The Bubonic Plague is a bacteria; there's no engineering involved. Modern medicine can easily defeat the plague, however antibiotics for the plague are in short supply as the disease only has some two hundred or less cases world wide each year, mostly non-fatal. A large epidemic could prove disasterous at first, but within a week or two antibiotics could be mass produced if several powerful states temporarily nationalized drug manufacturers. Currently, I believe bubonic plague is stored at the CDC in Atlanta, A&M University in Texas, and perhaps one or two places in Europe.

Actually, there was a hurricane in the first half of the century that killed upwards of 6000 people.
I believe you're referring to the hurricane that hit Galveston, TX in 1903. Roughly 8000 dead, I believe.

When I initially read the first post of this thread, the event coming into my mind was the 1755 Earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal. Over 100,000 people killed in Lisbon alone and the city virtually destroyed. First there was the earthquake. Then three waves of a tsunami overwhelmed most of the city from the bay and by travelling upriver. The parts of Lisbon not washed away burned for almost a week. This thing easily rivals the tsunami of last Christmas and makes Katrina appear insignificant.

[Whiteknight]

If a biological weapon is ever detonated, that'll definately top the charts.

I heard somewhere they're trying to reengineer Black Plague. Maybe we derserve extinction if we're that stupid. Why would you want to recreate one of mankinds deadliest diseases, if not the deadliest? Just attach a neon sign to the vial exclaiming "Terrorists Only!"

Scientists keep all the deadliest diseases for all kinds of things. It's useful to create cures, compare it to a mutated version if one pops up, biological weapons, experiment with, etc.

People overuse the term "worst disaster of *blank*". You just start to tune it out. Yes, it is bad but it isn't the worst.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

I think the biggest disaster in human history is the stock market crash which lead to the Great Depression. Sure it's not a natural disaster, but a disaster nonetheless. The entire world (i believe) was engulfed with its effect, including Germany. The inflation there contributed to the Germans waging WW2.

[Mattimeo]

I think the biggest disaster in human history is the stock market crash which lead to the Great Depression. Sure it's not a natural disaster, but a disaster nonetheless. The entire world (i believe) was engulfed with its effect, including Germany. The inflation there contributed to the Germans waging WW2.

Actually the inflation was because of the rediculous reparations forced on the germans because of the treaty of versailles. It's an accepted fact that the treaty of versailles basically left no option but a second world war. Very bad treaty imho. But yes, the depresssion was quite a disaster, but more of a superficial disaster than an actual destructive disaster.

~Don't Panic

[Fenguin]

The mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous era. 85% of the species in existence were wiped out.

Edit: Didn't see "mankind". Now the Black Death or the influenza epidemic of 1918 come to mind.

[Mattimeo]

The mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous era. 85% of the species in existence were wiped out.

Edit: Didn't see "mankind". Now the Black Death or the influenza epidemic of 1918 come to mind.

We've been over this, the P-T exctinction event was more devastating. Fenging didn't read the whole thread? I'm surprised at you!

~Don't Panic

[Fenguin]

Foo, my laziness has killed me yet again.

/me commits seppuku

[Xenon]

Foo, my laziness has killed me yet again.

* Fenguin commits seppuku

Well. I guess that's the last we'll hear from him...

The only thing stopping the 1908 Tunguska blast from being perhaps the worst natural disaster in recorded history is the fact that it happened in the middle of the Siberian wilderness, and not in a populated area.

The blast could be seen and felt all over Europe, and knocked down trees in a butterfly pattern over 50 miles wide. 100's of thousands of reindeer were incinerated, their carcasses burned to ash. The skies of Europe glowed for days afterwards, and the blast knocked out glass windows over 500 miles away.

[kongurous]

100's of thousands of reindeer were incinerated, their carcasses burned to ash.

Then how do we know they were there?

[Mattimeo]

Well. I guess that's the last we'll hear from him...

The only thing stopping the 1908 Tunguska blast from being perhaps the worst natural disaster in recorded history is the fact that it happened in the middle of the Siberian wilderness, and not in a populated area.

The blast could be seen and felt all over Europe, and knocked down trees in a butterfly pattern over 50 miles wide. 100's of thousands of reindeer were incinerated, their carcasses burned to ash. The skies of Europe glowed for days afterwards, and the blast knocked out glass windows over 500 miles away.

Well the only thing that kept the P-T disaster from being the world natural disaster in recorded history is that it happened to occur about 250 million years ago ;) But yeah, that blast-thingy was pretty crazy.

~Don't Panic

[Ecthelion]

Then how do we know they were there?Probably some kind of chemical residue or DNA traces marking them as reindeer. As to the number, probably just estimated.