beating protoss, please help

[ataglance]

me and my friend have played a few games together, he's protoss, i'm terran. we both get carriers and battlecruisers, but i was wondering if there's a sure way to take out carriers fast.

[MidnightGladius]

Hmm, it looks as if you two are either playing on money maps, have some sort of no rush agreement, have no sense of strategism, or any combination of the three.

If 1.
Mass cloaked wraiths, scan and find observers, kill observers, kill carriers.
Clone Yamato Guns (two for each Carrier)

If 2.
Same as 1.

If 3.
Make sure you have more BCs than he has Carriers :P Upgrades would make your life easier, too.

[Alexisonfire]

gols or wraiths

[ReD_ICE]

i got no say on $ maps...sorry ataglance

[Cpt.Chronic]

The fastest way to take out carriers is to kill him before he gets them.

[Ahzz]

uuhhuhuh

[MidnightGladius]

Erm, wrong thread perhaps?

He stated a particular question, so I think it's fair to answer that question, not give him more complications.

[Fronter]

The fastest way to take out carriers is to kill him before he gets them. :\ Why did I expect that from you?

Anyways... Yamatos work great on carriers, but if you have a set of Valkaries with upgraded weapons, that can kill them pretty fast, always works for me. Though Valkaries are better against Mutalisk, Valkaries are extremely great against Mutalisks, but they are pretty much weak against alot of other units :\ (Why did I talk about Mutalisks?)

[Ahzz]

oh... shittttt...... T_T wrong thread duh. um. ill edit my post...

[Modred]

If he keeps his carriers in tight formation, bring along a couple of science vessels and EMP various carriers throughout the group just before you begin the fight. Removing those shields will level the playing field for you quite a bit. And (after Yamatos, which should be 2 to a carrier as previously stated), focus all bcs on a single carrier until that carrier is dead and repeat.

The EMP should make cleanup much easier, and hotkey your vessels so while your battlecruisers are fighting (use shift + right click to que a few carriers in a row), you can quickly call in another EMP to remove any shields that might have regenerated.

[MidnightGladius]

Hmm, I personally think that EMP is pointless unless the opponent is using archons, arbiters, or high templar.

The gas for a vessel is crazy, and you'll be needing all the gas you can get for BCs.

[Modred]

The gas for a vessel is crazy, and you'll be needing all the gas you can get for BCs.
True, but hey, if it's a money map. =D

Actually, I rarely use battlecruisers, so I guess my advice was more a hypothetical "if you had these units." I'm much more comfortable on the ground.

[MidnightGladius]

Vessels are only really useful in TvZ, since the mineral only cost of your marines leaves you with a surplus of gas to be spent on dropships, tanks, and vessels. Then, if you can keep them from being scourged (not too hard with a bit of control), you'll continue adding to them until you decide to stop (guys, do you know that irradiation damage is cumulative? For example, a single ultra irradiated won't die, but two irradiated ultras standing together will. Imagive a 12-vessel eraser....bye bye zerg army).

[Cpt.Chronic]

:\ Why did I expect that from you?
Well, it's the truth. Being agressive and pressuring/harrassing a protoss player is the best way to play the matchup. If you just let them expand over the map and build up while you turtle there is absolutely 0% chance of beating his carriers. If you are pressuring him, he won't have enough money/time to tech to carriers, and if he does he won't have enough carriers to be effective vs. your ranged golis that would soon accompany the terran strike force.

Anyways... Yamatos work great on carriers, but if you have a set of Valkaries with upgraded weapons, that can kill them pretty fast, always works for me. Though Valkaries are better against Mutalisk, Valkaries are extremely great against Mutalisks, but they are pretty much weak against alot of other units :\ (Why did I talk about Mutalisks?)
BC's are not the counter to carriers and niether are valks (yes, they are a good counter to mutalisks though).

There are two main counters: ranged goliaths or cloaked wraiths with scan killing their observers. Goliaths are obviously the easiest/cheapest/fastest since you should already have many factories making your mech army.

Yes, there are other counters that will work, but they pretty much require you to be the better player and already in control of the game, such as lockdown, BC's, or m&m.

[ataglance]

yeah all my friends that play protoss and are good always go after carriers. so i've been thinking about this all day. what if i just rushed him with tanks and goliath/vultures? have tanks in the back in siege and rush with goliaths n he can't build carriers. thanks alot for all the replies. i'll be sure to use these methods. isn't 12 bc's stronger than 12 carriers anyways?

[Modred]

You could probably park a handful of tanks with m&m support outside one of their bases long before they get carriers flying. =D

[MidnightGladius]

Theoretically, 12 Carriers can defeat 12 Bcs by constantly dancing and making use of the carrier's marginal range advantage.

Of course, in practice, it's all but impossible to pull off.

If you really want to kill a player teching to carriers, marine and scv rush them :)

[ataglance]

me and my friend just played 2v1 c stomp n after we were done we he atkd my base. i had 2 rows of turrets surrounding my base all the way around(money map) n i had atleast 25 bc's flying around, with goliaths roaming around also. he slaughtered me and i managed to take out 6 of his carriers. i had full vec/ship upgrades. what am i doing wrong?! i'm sick of hearing him brag!!!

without rushing btw. even though thats probably the only way to successfully take him out....

p.s. whenever i try to edit my replies or anything else not involving quick replies, it says lengthen your message by 5 characters, no matter how long it is

[MidnightGladius]

Hmm, tell me his name, I'll challenge him to a 1v1, and then he'll realize exactly what kind of total idiot he is.

To the problem at hand, was he focus firing? Were you? How did you position the goliaths (in your case, wraiths would be better, since it sounds like you're already pumping BCs)? Were they getting stuck between buildings (I hate goliath, AI...)? Otherwise, did he micro (dancing carriers, making use of obstructions, etc.)? Did you?

[ataglance]

he sort of just massed me. he sent about 15 carriers over to my base, i had about 5 goliaths out because that's all i could make. (supply limit) i tried singling out his carriers with my bc's and i managed to kill 6, but my gol's and turrets went after the interceptors. i've thought about it and would i have enough time to just build 5 tanks and about 8 vultures and rush him, or tank push him?he keeps saying he could rush me in the beginning with 3 zealots but i would have my D up already.

[Modred]

but my gol's and turrets went after the interceptors
This is where micromanagement comes in. If they're attacking the interceptors, select all your goliaths and have them attack the same carrier. Hotkey them so it's easier. Once they're all firing at one carrier, start going through nearby turrets and keying them on carriers (if they're in range). Of course, if the carriers are out of range of all your ground units...

[MidnightGladius]

Heh, if he 3zeal rushed you, you would most likely die (coughcoughnewbcoughcoughfastestcoughcough).

Follow Modred's advice, he know's what he's talking about, and I won't make what he says seem so easy :D

[ataglance]

WTF how come when i post a new thread it always says lengthen by 5 characters no matter how long it is?!

[MidnightGladius]

I dunno, go ask one of the moderators and they'll tell the admin.

[cool_breeze]

As a Toss player, and having my Carriers killed many times by Goliaths, my advice is to not build BC's period. Opt for upgraded Gols.

[shaun343]

me and my friend have played a few games together, he's protoss, i'm terran. we both get carriers and battlecruisers, but i was wondering if there's a sure way to take out carriers fast.




us power overwhelming so he cant bet u so easly and operation cwal for being able to make units faster!

[Alexisonfire]

ya thanx for reviving a month old thread with ur pointless/moronic post

[ReD_ICE]

Lol~~

[MidnightGladius]

ROFL....cheaters know best :/

[Demonlurker]

For the BC's you should take them out with goliath AFTERyou emp them with science vessel. or, you can just nuke them cause they're incredibly SLOW (although i wouldn't recommend it.)

:beer: Cheers. :chuckball

btw, how do you post a thread?

[Basan]

btw, how do you post a thread?

It's a button named "new thread" and usually it's located under the forums' threads display and it's located on the top left side of'em, right above the threads table. From there you're set to go, just beware of the area under wich you post by selecting the appropriate forum under the new window it opened when you clicked the "new thread" button. ;)

And welcome to WB's as well, our 'tiny corner' in the Web. :)

[ataglance]

man thanks for all the help guys. i still need to get out of money maps though to actually become good. it's been a while since i played sc though.

[AndyWiggn]

man thanks for all the help guys. i still need to get out of money maps though to actually become good. it's been a while since i played sc though.

Don't buy into the hype man. I mean, stay the @#$% off of fastest, but don't get into the habit of associating money and newb. It all depends on what skills you want to develop. If you want to get faster at clicking, memory of build orders, small scale counters, and harrass techniques -- you're better off learning with non-money. If you want to learn a little bit about tactics, strategy, and coming up with new ideas, you're better off with money. But regardless of the map type, the game is only newb if the players are newb.

And on the thread topic... relying on gols to kill mass carr will get you killed unless the guy doesn't micro his carr; BCs will tie up your supply when he uses one stasis; and Valks do not fire if they have too much to target. Best simple counter is wraith or a spread of wraith and gols. (Scan kill obs.)

[MidnightGladius]

Don't even THINK about starting up this old argument again, Andy. That's all I'm going to say.