What improvements would you like to see in 1.19? [Archive]

RedRagToAnOrc

07-17-2005, 8:58 AM

Lordshadowbane

07-17-2005, 9:37 AM

I'd imagine that a new patch will be released sometime in the next couple of months, so I was just wondering what sort of nerfs/buffs people would like to see in the next patch.

I've posted a poll with the thread which is a general overview, in other words, in general, which races would you like to see buffed/nerfed? I know that most people will be pushing for a night-elf nerf of some sort (not me, I play as them!) but it's obvious that in the right hands, it's difficult to beat them.

Storm Bolt needs a nerf, as does Water Elemental/Aura with the Archmage, I reckon.

What do you think?
EDIT: Bear in mind you are allowed to vote for more than one option.
Human whenever I played I thought they were underbalanced. But they're actually balanced. Its just elf... Storm bolt needs a slight stun nerf. Otherwise HU is fine. WE isnt hard since elf has dryads. Its only hard for orcs. You have mana burn for aura...

Elf in general needs a nerf and is insanely imbalanced. All this bs w/ potm/hunt abuse or just hunt abuse, mass summon and dotts, bear/dryad, chippo, and bm/fl, bm/panda, and panda/fl. Nerf them all somehow. Bears have enormous dmg output. DH has enormous dmg output and mb harrass takes little to no skill while they tech. MG have enormous tanking power which HAS to be nerfed. Increase Bear researching time... Nerf chim splash and attack... Elves is the only race that can mass expos effectively w/o towers and mass or use lots of tavern heroes. Elves have that retarded and imba staff of preserv. I recall doing a poll to see how many noobelves there were on a forum. 14/16 abused elf and I did a few elf imbalances that they abused. Only two players played elf the skilled way. Even a noob can be "good" w/ elf if they can abuse and attack-move.

Orcs are slightly imbalanced due to ensnare. Lower the ensnare time (15 seconds is ridiculous). Lower Grunt health slightly. Orc abuse chainwave or BM/TC wyverns vs UD too much. Nerf wyvern poison or wyv attack...

Undead are slightly underbalanced, about the same as HU maybe slightly easier to play than HU, Im not sure. Destros are overpowerful vs HU and Orc. However they have counters (gyros, rifles) which they can go. Fiending is hard to use vs good players and you need to work on burrowing, dancing etc.
Ghouling requires surround skills so it's fine. Everybody complains about nukes but.....

HU: better nuke
NE: AMS, MB, and its elf
Orc: Chainwave and hex

Ppl complain about destros too but destros cost 300 gold and 80 wood, about as much as a chim and require researching. Nova needs a slight nerf. Sleep too. Nerubian towers and town hall's ice blast thing needs a slight nerf too. (5 seconds is retarded...) UD is overall a pretty balance race.

cole

07-17-2005, 11:22 AM

WEs can be a bitch for both orc/ud really. Mainly because destroyers are so late game and the fact that ghoul HP is low. Surroudning isnt to hard to master, i mean, i have no trouble with it. But id like to see a possible hp buff to ghouls and maybe footmen. Im tired of seeing rangecraft personally. And i dont like the fact that archers with micro>ghouls with micro.But of course itd have to be a small hp buff so the noobelve players dont whine. Since i play orc now, i have noticed a few things that are imbalanced. Ensare duration is to long, either nerf cooldown or nerf duration.(Preferably duration). But this could make other strats like fiend stat even more powerful which is a bad thing since grunt raider is fiend stats natural counter and you have to spam ensare like crazy to prevent burrowing. Wyvs are fine really, its bats that need looking at. Nova+garg ff=gg wyversn. But bats need to do less aoe damage and more direct damage so they deal with heavy air like destroyers better because destroyers rape orc at the moment. Archmage is crazily imbalanced, his infinte aura is nuts and WEs are just to good in general. I guess increasing wolves cooldown could be good in the long run bt they can be easier to counter with dispel due to the low hp. Stormbolt is actually kind of to strong. I mean lets compare coil to stormbolt. Coil=300 dmg at lvl 3. Stormbolt=350 dmg at lvl 3 with stun hmm. Yes thats fair....Spirit walkers in corperal form need to be immune to magic to stop this mass cyclone bullshit vs orc. Ne is a incredily strong race and could use a nerf really. Their fast expo has almost no counter at all and somes strats are just to godly. And ne vs ud is MU thats in desperate need of fixing. Only way UD can win is if hes 20 times better than the ne player. Offensive towering and miltia creeping needs to be adjusted as well. Those are just the main things.

Btw sleep is fine man. Pretty easy to counter, imo.

Dayoh

07-17-2005, 6:22 PM

This is my opionion but when i play as hum, i find that Flying machines counter air rather effectively when properly micro'd. I feel that their hit points should go up from 200 to 250.(lol Isent 1.19 out)

All the hero's are ok. Its just i feel that some of the "smaller" (in value) units need buffing, only little thing's like some more armour.

killer-penguin

07-18-2005, 5:35 AM

I want the deathstar back -_-

MidnightGladius

07-18-2005, 6:58 AM

There was a deathstar? Is there something I've been missing, or are you just being sarcastic?

I really think water elementals and storm bolt need to be lowered...those two make my life a serious pain.

RedRagToAnOrc

07-18-2005, 11:04 AM

Human whenever I played I thought they were underbalanced. But they're actually balanced. Its just elf... Storm bolt needs a slight stun nerf. Otherwise HU is fine. WE isnt hard since elf has dryads. Its only hard for orcs. You have mana burn for aura...

Elf in general needs a nerf and is insanely imbalanced. All this bs w/ potm/hunt abuse or just hunt abuse, mass summon and dotts, bear/dryad, chippo, and bm/fl, bm/panda, and panda/fl. Nerf them all somehow. Bears have enormous dmg output. DH has enormous dmg output and mb harrass takes little to no skill while they tech. MG have enormous tanking power which HAS to be nerfed. Increase Bear researching time... Nerf chim splash and attack... Elves is the only race that can mass expos effectively w/o towers and mass or use lots of tavern heroes. Elves have that retarded and imba staff of preserv. I recall doing a poll to see how many noobelves there were on a forum. 14/16 abused elf and I did a few elf imbalances that they abused. Only two players played elf the skilled way. Even a noob can be "good" w/ elf if they can abuse and attack-move.

Orcs are slightly imbalanced due to ensnare. Lower the ensnare time (15 seconds is ridiculous). Lower Grunt health slightly. Orc abuse chainwave or BM/TC wyverns vs UD too much. Nerf wyvern poison or wyv attack...

Undead are slightly underbalanced, about the same as HU maybe slightly easier to play than HU, Im not sure. Destros are overpowerful vs HU and Orc. However they have counters (gyros, rifles) which they can go. Fiending is hard to use vs good players and you need to work on burrowing, dancing etc.
Ghouling requires surround skills so it's fine. Everybody complains about nukes but.....

HU: better nuke
NE: AMS, MB, and its elf
Orc: Chainwave and hex

Ppl complain about destros too but destros cost 300 gold and 80 wood, about as much as a chim and require researching. Nova needs a slight nerf. Sleep too. Nerubian towers and town hall's ice blast thing needs a slight nerf too. (5 seconds is retarded...) UD is overall a pretty balance race.

There was a deathstar? Is there something I've been missing, or are you just being sarcastic?

I really think water elementals and storm bolt need to be lowered...those two make my life a serious pain.

Yeah, he was being sarcastic. You just don't have a sarcastic smilie on here. Maybe the admin should add that later. Version 1.19 hasn't been released, yet, Dayoh.

As for the water elementals, it's a pain early on is my point. You can get rushed with up to 4 elementals, and Archmage and riflemen, and you will get completely owned. After that, it's slightly better, because you get Dryads w/ Abolish Magic like you said, but up until then it's a pain in the neck.

Hominghead

07-18-2005, 2:49 PM

cole

07-18-2005, 6:05 PM

Yeah, he was being sarcastic. You just don't have a sarcastic smilie on here. Maybe the admin should add that later. Version 1.19 hasn't been released, yet, Dayoh.

As for the water elementals, it's a pain early on is my point. You can get rushed with up to 4 elementals, and Archmage and riflemen, and you will get completely owned. After that, it's slightly better, because you get Dryads w/ Abolish Magic like you said, but up until then it's a pain in the neck.

Archmage can only summon up to 3 WEs at a time -_- . Deathstar was the UD halls of dead back in ROC when it did more dmg than a spirit tower and made attacking almost impossible. Its something oldschool war3 players would know :/.

Lordshadowbane

07-18-2005, 6:36 PM

Yeah, he was being sarcastic. You just don't have a sarcastic smilie on here. Maybe the admin should add that later. Version 1.19 hasn't been released, yet, Dayoh.

As for the water elementals, it's a pain early on is my point. You can get rushed with up to 4 elementals, and Archmage and riflemen, and you will get completely owned. After that, it's slightly better, because you get Dryads w/ Abolish Magic like you said, but up until then it's a pain in the neck.

He can only summon 3 like cole said. And the last summoned WE has around 5 seconds to live. A lil archer micro>foot micro. DH can keep AM under check. And wisps take down WE's for free exp. AM/foot/WE rush is easy to counter for elf...

Tharisfal

07-19-2005, 10:02 AM

nerf the humans, nerf the undead!!!! I never won a macth against the undead
humans? no question about them... nerf ... If you play with the NE against the humans no rush will work becouse of the footmans skill.

cole

07-19-2005, 10:15 AM

RedRagToAnOrc

07-19-2005, 11:17 AM

Lol, this sounds like a bnet troll.

Don't take the mick out of him, Cole, he's never played on Bnet...

As for Hominghead and his question about the nerfs/buffs - a buff is increasing stats and other things for a race, (buffing a Footman would be like giving it slightly more defense or increasing it's attack slightly,) and nerfing a race is the opposite.

RedRagToAnOrc

07-21-2005, 10:02 AM

He can only summon 3 like cole said. And the last summoned WE has around 5 seconds to live. A lil archer micro>foot micro. DH can keep AM under check. And wisps take down WE's for free exp. AM/foot/WE rush is easy to counter for elf...

Heh. Some of us aren't that good, by the way. Detonate takes a bit of aiming, because the WEs can move to attack another unit etc. Plus it takes two wisps to kill one elemental, and that's only at the first level.

Hominghead

07-21-2005, 1:12 PM

Then I would buff Night Elf and Orcs:D

RedRagToAnOrc

07-21-2005, 2:33 PM

Then I would buff Night Elf and Orcs:D

I'm interested to know why you would buff Night-Elves... because virtually everyone I've talked/listened to on these forums thinks otherwise. Please, tell me.

cole

07-21-2005, 2:37 PM

Its not hard detonation summons imo. Just move the wisp by the summon and click detonate. And by the time he has level 2 WEs youll have dryads anyways.

RedRagToAnOrc

07-21-2005, 2:45 PM

Its not hard detonation summons imo. Just move the wisp by the summon and click detonate. And by the time he has level 2 WEs youll have dryads anyways.

Heh, hate to spoil the party Cole, but I'm Level 20! And that means that if my opponent power creeps, then I'm gonna have Dryads... well, perhaps by the time he has a Level 4 or 5 Archmage and has attacked once or twice! :) Well, that's exaggerating a bit, but I'm not generally good at getting generous amounts of units at the same time as teching efficiently and quickly. Seriously, I'm not. On Lost Temple, perhaps I am, because I tend to get a fast expansion with Night-Elves (AoW uprooted, Demon Hunter etc.) but I digress.

Perhaps you could provide me with a quick and easy solution, Cole. Such as a build order for Night-Elves. It would be greatly appreciated.

Sphiunx

07-21-2005, 3:10 PM

I want it to work in the craked Game :cry:

Tharisfal

07-21-2005, 3:28 PM

I want it to work in the craked Game :cry:

Keep dreaming.:rolleyes:

Lordshadowbane

07-21-2005, 6:15 PM

Heh, hate to spoil the party Cole, but I'm Level 20! And that means that if my opponent power creeps, then I'm gonna have Dryads... well, perhaps by the time he has a Level 4 or 5 Archmage and has attacked once or twice! :) Well, that's exaggerating a bit, but I'm not generally good at getting generous amounts of units at the same time as teching efficiently and quickly. Seriously, I'm not. On Lost Temple, perhaps I am, because I tend to get a fast expansion with Night-Elves (AoW uprooted, Demon Hunter etc.) but I digress.

Perhaps you could provide me with a quick and easy solution, Cole. Such as a build order for Night-Elves. It would be greatly appreciated.

Level means nothing... I've beaten a level 36 b4 w/ UD a race that I just learned how to play. And Im a level 19 w/ my new smurf started just a week ago... How hard is it to move wisps to suicide? You can get 2 wisps to kill 2 elementals. And even that shouldnt be hard. Harrassing works vs power creeping.. Tell me what is hard about an AM/foot rush?

RedRagToAnOrc

07-22-2005, 6:00 AM

Level means nothing... I've beaten a level 36 b4 w/ UD a race that I just learned how to play. And Im a level 19 w/ my new smurf started just a week ago... How hard is it to move wisps to suicide? You can get 2 wisps to kill 2 elementals. And even that shouldnt be hard. Harrassing works vs power creeping.. Tell me what is hard about an AM/foot rush?

Suiciding the wisps is easy with practice, what I'm trying to say is that my build order is screwed - I can't get reasonable amounts of units at the same time as getting Dryads and other teched units quickly.

Lordshadowbane

07-22-2005, 7:32 AM

Suiciding the wisps is easy with practice, what I'm trying to say is that my build order is screwed - I can't get reasonable amounts of units at the same time as getting Dryads and other teched units quickly.

Dont let them die? How many wisps do you have on wood...?

RedRagToAnOrc

07-22-2005, 9:39 AM

Dont let them die? How many wisps do you have on wood...?

Er... I don't let them die, if I can help it. And I tend to have 9 wisps on wood at the start, which normally goes down to 6 or 7 once I build other stuff later.

cole

07-22-2005, 12:03 PM

Er... I don't let them die, if I can help it. And I tend to have 9 wisps on wood at the start, which normally goes down to 6 or 7 once I build other stuff later.

Show me a rep so i can see where your coming from.

RedRagToAnOrc

07-22-2005, 12:47 PM

I'll play one some time tonight and post it here, if it highlights the problem. In other words, if it's not on Lost Temple! :)

It's not wood that's the problem, anyway, it's gold. But I'll get that replay posted. Ciao.

EDIT: Infact, you can check out the lastest replay that I posted in the 1.18 Replay thread, that might help - but I'll post a couple that I recently played. The 'Lucky' replay is quite funny, you should watch it. You might laugh a bit at the extraordinary amounts of luck I stumbled across...

ice

07-25-2005, 9:53 AM

lets hope everyting is balanced!:)

Yoda

08-02-2005, 3:55 AM

Lordshadowbane

08-02-2005, 8:01 AM

Everything is balanced. Most of the "imbalanced units" can be countered if people thought about how to do it. I mean, if the NE was the STRONGEST race by an incredible margin, wouldn't more people play them?

Some ppl like having a challenge? And I've recieved at least 10 ppl saying GG GL VS NIGHT ELF! or HAha noob Elf is the best isnt it? OR when I play elf, GG no way beating elf, Nerf elf plz, noobelf, etc.

Gj of course elf can be countered. The wee problem is that THE MAJORITY OF ELF STRATS TAKE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS SKILL AND EFFORT TO PULL OUT AND USE. Like Elf vs UD. Elf goes DH. DH has the second highest dps w/ a move that makes another hero useless just like him (so its a comparison of physical strength). So he goes DH harrassing your DK not letting you creeping.
Options are
A. Creep and risk getting army killed by DH
B. Turtle while he techs to tier 2 gets naga/panda/some tavern hero and he levels them up while creeping/harrassing.

Anyways bear/dryad> every race basicly. HU seems to have starting to make a counter w/ AM/MK or naga/rifle/priest/sorc/breaker. And getting bear/dryad isnt hard w/ 3 of elf's heroes harrassers and elf is best complemented by tavern (Ie. mass summons) and that elf can tech the fastest. So bear/dryad can be countered eh...? Even when elf has the best expo/easiest? Dryad costs 145/60 and bear costs 255/80. If your UD your screwed w/ ghoul/garg unless you get out wyrms which is nearly impossible unless you fast expo. Abomb/fiend/destro has a chance of winning cept the fact that elf has slow poison and bears have superior fighting power and the fact that both have the same attack/defense upgrades. Unlike UD who needs to pay double...?

cole

08-02-2005, 6:58 PM

Hu actually has the best counter to dryad bear. Am naga works really good, i have reps if you want.

Yoda

08-03-2005, 5:42 AM

Some ppl like having a challenge? And I've recieved at least 10 ppl saying GG GL VS NIGHT ELF! or HAha noob Elf is the best isnt it? OR when I play elf, GG no way beating elf, Nerf elf plz, noobelf, etc.

Gj of course elf can be countered. The wee problem is that THE MAJORITY OF ELF STRATS TAKE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS SKILL AND EFFORT TO PULL OUT AND USE. Like Elf vs UD. Elf goes DH. DH has the second highest dps w/ a move that makes another hero useless just like him (so its a comparison of physical strength). So he goes DH harrassing your DK not letting you creeping.
Options are
A. Creep and risk getting army killed by DH
B. Turtle while he techs to tier 2 gets naga/panda/some tavern hero and he levels them up while creeping/harrassing.

Anyways bear/dryad> every race basicly. HU seems to have starting to make a counter w/ AM/MK or naga/rifle/priest/sorc/breaker. And getting bear/dryad isnt hard w/ 3 of elf's heroes harrassers and elf is best complemented by tavern (Ie. mass summons) and that elf can tech the fastest. So bear/dryad can be countered eh...? Even when elf has the best expo/easiest? Dryad costs 145/60 and bear costs 255/80. If your UD your screwed w/ ghoul/garg unless you get out wyrms which is nearly impossible unless you fast expo. Abomb/fiend/destro has a chance of winning cept the fact that elf has slow poison and bears have superior fighting power and the fact that both have the same attack/defense upgrades. Unlike UD who needs to pay double...?

I can't think of a good response to that. However I can never seem to find an easy win with the NE against another civ, although on Battle net I have the irritating tendency to go against someone twenty levels higher then me.

One thing I can say is that I only realised how good dyrads/bears were after people started complaining about them, which probably doesn't mean anything.

To mention a few things, these are some changes to make to NE (I'm not so good at the other civs), so there would be balance and some units would actually be made.

1) Heroes - The DH needs a very slight buff, so he is not the first hero made every time
2) Mountain Giant - 7 food? Not worth it. Make it six or even five
3) Dyrads - Theese need to cost more, and the "abolish magic" take longer to research and cost more
4) Druids of the Claw - Going from bear to druid (and vice versa) should not be instant - otherwise it is too easily abused.
5) Thorns Aura - This is a waste. It needs a buff to do more percentage - right now theres no point except against orcs (maybe!)
6) Fairy Dragon - Their mana burn does not do enough damage
7) Glaive Thrower - This needs a buff in attack damage and HP. Right now they're not worth building.

Some other races -
1) Archmage needs a nerf. For the same reason as DH, it is by far too overused.
2) Chain lightning is far too powerful against humans
3) Mass-skeletons is too powerful. Can someone tell my a counter /w NE?

Lordshadowbane

08-03-2005, 7:38 AM

I can't think of a good response to that. However I can never seem to find an easy win with the NE against another civ, although on Battle net I have the irritating tendency to go against someone twenty levels higher then me.

One thing I can say is that I only realised how good dyrads/bears were after people started complaining about them, which probably doesn't mean anything.

To mention a few things, these are some changes to make to NE (I'm not so good at the other civs), so there would be balance and some units would actually be made.

1) Heroes - The DH needs a very slight buff, so he is not the first hero made every time
2) Mountain Giant - 7 food? Not worth it. Make it six or even five
3) Dyrads - Theese need to cost more, and the "abolish magic" take longer to research and cost more
4) Druids of the Claw - Going from bear to druid (and vice versa) should not be instant - otherwise it is too easily abused.
5) Thorns Aura - This is a waste. It needs a buff to do more percentage - right now theres no point except against orcs (maybe!)
6) Fairy Dragon - Their mana burn does not do enough damage
7) Glaive Thrower - This needs a buff in attack damage and HP. Right now they're not worth building.

Some other races -
1) Archmage needs a nerf. For the same reason as DH, it is by far too overused.
2) Chain lightning is far too powerful against humans
3) Mass-skeletons is too powerful. Can someone tell my a counter /w NE?

1. You mean nerf?
2. MG are fine, they screw over fienders fine just in tier 2 and hurt rifle/caster ppl decently, and mg are more a of a FFA unit...
3. No dryads are actually alright in my opinion w/ their high wood cost and the fact they drop in 2-3 seconds in ff like any caster.
4. How is it easily abused to morph?
5. Another thorns aura hater, maybe try using bears or mg's w/ it? And aura is a nice factor between garg vs hippogriph.
6. agreed.
7. Yea definitely not. Since they own UD and elf mirror so badly.

1. It's almost fine just nerf a lil health in WE's and mana regen and he's fine.
2. Well mana burn is far too powerful vs UD. And chainlightning is powerful vs UD too.
3. Use the tavern. Go mg/chim/fairie. DR or two AOE heroes.

Yoda

08-04-2005, 5:48 AM

1. You mean nerf?
2. MG are fine, they screw over fienders fine just in tier 2 and hurt rifle/caster ppl decently, and mg are more a of a FFA unit...
3. No dryads are actually alright in my opinion w/ their high wood cost and the fact they drop in 2-3 seconds in ff like any caster.
4. How is it easily abused to morph?
5. Another thorns aura hater, maybe try using bears or mg's w/ it? And aura is a nice factor between garg vs hippogriph.
6. agreed.
7. Yea definitely not. Since they own UD and elf mirror so badly.

1. It's almost fine just nerf a lil health in WE's and mana regen and he's fine.
2. Well mana burn is far too powerful vs UD. And chainlightning is powerful vs UD too.
3. Use the tavern. Go mg/chim/fairie. DR or two AOE heroes.

Thanks for your help, Lordshadowbane :) (I am being serious here).

RedRagToAnOrc

08-04-2005, 8:20 AM

An idea I came up with recently was voice chat. I know it would be weird, what with the bandwidth and people using dial-up modems, but it would be cool. Most people have to use TeamSpeak at the moment, and people who use it are few and far between. Perhaps if you were on a broadband connection you could choose to use it, and if you weren't then you wouldn't? It would definitely make for better team gaming.

Yoda

08-04-2005, 8:34 AM

An idea I came up with recently was voice chat. I know it would be weird, what with the bandwidth and people using dial-up modems, but it would be cool. .

With voice chat, everything would run much too slow.

GenocideAlive

08-25-2005, 4:43 PM

"Buff" means "make stronger".
"Nerf" means "make weaker".

"the Death Star" refers to the L2-3 UD town hall that did 40 piercing damage to anything that came within range. It was removed in TFT 1.0-something but before that made a freaking vicious tower that was serious shiite to go near. It was changed to the cold-tower that the town hall is now.

The Staff of Preservation needs serious changing (work like a staff of TP for units), Bears need a serious increase in build time. Cole also echos some of my sentiments, I get a little freaking sick of rangecraft. Everybody builds ranged units because focus fire is so damned good against everything else. UD tiers 1 & 2 need a little buff, and some of their tier 3 stuff needs nerfing. They should have options besides "make fiends and have extremely late hero or camp base".

Oh, and someone fucking nerf brill aura on heroes, please. I get so sick of facing MKs that can cast every spell they have 3-4 times per battle because of that goddamned aura.

Dayoh

08-25-2005, 9:44 PM

in my opinion und need buffing cause when i V a average und player and im orc i always win its so easy.

I go Grunts and kodo and docs master and 2 raiders, with my FS and TC.
GG :)

And they usually have fiends and stats....

p0wer.0f.ice

08-25-2005, 10:37 PM

orc vs ud is imba
7) Glaive Thrower - This needs a buff in attack damage and HP. Right now they're not worth building
well considering you can build them at tier 1 if you buff them then make it so that they are tier 2

Yoda

08-26-2005, 6:05 AM

Something which just occured to me is that the NE have the worst icons of all. I mean, who likes Maiv?

GenocideAlive

08-26-2005, 12:43 PM

dayoh, while seeming to take little consideration into other matchups, is correct. Orc's very strong tier 1/2 combined with Chainwave pretty much fucks over UD easy. Once statues come out, they can keep up with Orc somewhat, but it's not even by any means. Then imba destroyers blast out, and the tables turn. It's usually a matter of whether or not the Orc player can gain enough of an advantage before destroyers make the scene. They usually can, because 10 minutes to win is plenty.

Kreepre

08-29-2005, 12:43 PM

RedRagToAnOrc

08-29-2005, 1:21 PM

i would like to see the blademaster windwalk spell more expensive. orc players can take all the workers and a hero against some players, especially if the hero they choose is weak early in the game like a potm or archmage. many of my losses were bcuz of bm rushes

Blademaster rushes are easy to counter if you know how. There are a number of ways to counter it.

1) The most obvious, and what most people use against Blademaster rushes is Dust of Appearance, which stays with the Bm for some time, so if he Wind Walks twice, you can still see him. This costs 75 gold, which is pretty cheap.

2) Then there are other methods. the Priestess of the Moon's Owl Scout, Hawk with the Beastmaster and Shades can all detect Wind Walking Bms. The only one of these you can't get easily at t1 is shades, and they can follow the Blademaster round the map, making it even easier for you to counter it. Beastmaster is what many Night-Elf players (including myself) take against Orc anyways, so if you wait until you have scouted your opponent's hero/creeping regime, or simply if your base hasn't been harrassed for a while, get Quilbeast or Hawk as appropriate. You can then go Quilbeast/Hawk/Hawk or Hawk/Quilbeast/Hawk and use your overpowered feathered friend to own the various heavy armour units that Orc players use.

So in my opinion, 75 mana is entirely justified for such an easily counterable spell. But some of you might have other opinions. I'd like to hear a counter-argument.

Lordshadowbane

08-29-2005, 6:27 PM

You cant get dusks when its day time unless you can creep really fast.

UD shades are average speed and blademaster is fast speed.

Who gets POTM vs Orc?

Yoda

08-30-2005, 5:48 AM

Well, I might be the biggest noob here, but I tend to get a POTM almost every game as NE, as a secondary hero, just to constantly follow the enemy army or their base with owl scout, so they can never attack my base when theres no units there, and never win a fight because I counter their units before we even have a battle. And when they go creeping I attack their base.

RedRagToAnOrc

08-30-2005, 6:37 AM

You cant get dusks when its day time unless you can creep really fast.

UD shades are average speed and blademaster is fast speed.

Who gets POTM vs Orc?

You can get Dusts of Appearance from most racial shops for 75 Gold. I think Orc is the only one where you can't, and there's a simple counter to that - go Blademaster and Wind Walk a second after your opponent does. That way, he can't hit your hero, and he'll be forced (unless you attack something) to stop wind walking, or use it on a unit, where (with any luck) you can get to him within that second or two. Anyways, I always build a shop really early when I'm facing Orc, just for that eventuality.

Shades may be average speed, but in a battle they can provide that one second window where the Blademaster is on low health and you can get him. Also, A Blademaster (late and middle game) will often be creeping with his troops. Correct if I'm wrong, but a group of hero + units always moves at the speed of the slowest unit. This is why, once, I made a Mechanical Critter, moved out of my base with the critter accidentally in my group, my opponent spotted my entire first group moving at a snail's pace and deduced I had a critter. He then proceeded to kill every single animal he saw. So, shades could probably keep up with the slowest running member of the group.

Yoda gets POTM vs. Orc. :)

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Well, I might be the biggest noob here, but I tend to get a POTM almost every game as NE, as a secondary hero, just to constantly follow the enemy army or their base with owl scout, so they can never attack my base when theres no units there, and never win a fight because I counter their units before we even have a battle. And when they go creeping I attack their base.

Good idea, but you really want to be getting Trueshot Aura as well (just in case you weren't - you never know...) and you can also use the Beastmaster's Hawk early on in games against Orc, who will more often than not have no anti-air. This eliminates the requirement for an Owl Scout with POTM and can allow you to spend hero points on Arrows/Aura. Later on, a Level 3 Hawk can take down all the workers at an expansion if you're lucky and your opponent is far away. And he doesn't have any towers. Hawks also own heavy armoured towers, like Orcs'. Only problem is with the Hawk, it isn't invulnerable and you can therefore get experience from it for killing it. Blademaster with orb owns it.

Lordshadowbane

08-30-2005, 6:30 PM

The problem is HU doesnt have dusts either. And elf shops arent needed til tier 2. Early on its really just a waste of gold since the BM can survive 50000 arrow shots. Shades can work but again why not just use dusts late game?

Yoda

08-31-2005, 5:41 AM

Yoda gets POTM vs. Orc. :)

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Good idea, but you really want to be getting Trueshot Aura as well (just in case you weren't - you never know...) and you can also use the Beastmaster's Hawk early on in games against Orc, who will more often than not have no anti-air. This eliminates the requirement for an Owl Scout with POTM and can allow you to spend hero points on Arrows/Aura. Later on, a Level 3 Hawk can take down all the workers at an expansion if you're lucky and your opponent is far away. And he doesn't have any towers. Hawks also own heavy armoured towers, like Orcs'. Only problem is with the Hawk, it isn't invulnerable and you can therefore get experience from it for killing it. Blademaster with orb owns it.

POTM as secondary hero. DH as the primary hero.

Yes, I do get Aura as well, point spending usually -

Owl Scout, Aura, Owl Scout, Aura, Owl Scout, Starfall, Aura, Flaming Arrows, Flaming Arrows, Flaming Arrows.

Sometimes when the enemy is rushing me, I get Flaming Arrows first to help things. But otherwise, Owl Scout, being able to constantly scout the enemy base, and by the time the time expires, the POTM has already recovered all the mana lost, is invaluable :)

But for your first comment, only as a secondary hero, with DH usually as the first.

Kreepre

08-31-2005, 7:29 PM

Who gets POTM vs Orc?

well if the opponent has chosen random race, then u wont know if hes an orc

mirthrandir63

08-31-2005, 8:37 PM

Remove book of the dead and wand of lightning shield. Both are either too strong, or simply too weak depending on what stage of the game you get them in.

Unless of course, you believe they are the "book of free exp".

^^

RedRagToAnOrc

09-01-2005, 5:33 AM

Remove book of the dead and wand of lightning shield. Both are either too strong, or simply too weak depending on what stage of the game you get them in.

Wand of lightning shield is fine! :) It can be dispelled by most races pretty easily, and is only extremely effective on clumps of ranged units. If you cast it on melee units then it's a double-edged sword, because it hurts the opposing side as well. If you have extremely good micro, you can even cast it on a surrounded Demon Hunter coupled with Immolation and a potion or two, and you really are going to own those melee units!

Book of the Dead I agree with, but there is a simple counter to it - run away. This way, the book is wasted, and the skeletons will eventually die off, allowing for another attack, skeleton-free!

Something that isn't necessarily imbalanced, but is great fun, is Wand of Illusion. Got one Mountain Giant and a hero left? Opponent has an entire army? Create three illsuions of the giant and hold them off with 4 while you build up your army! Especially early-game, if you have a few archers against a hero and grunts, 'illuse' the archers and attack your opponent with a huge army! More often than not, they'll run away in situations like those. I don't think it's imbalanced, but others may disagree. Thoughts?

Yoda

09-01-2005, 8:29 AM

Something that isn't necessarily imbalanced, but is great fun, is Wand of Illusion. Got one Mountain Giant and a hero left? Opponent has an entire army? Create three illsuions of the giant and hold them off with 4 while you build up your army! Especially early-game, if you have a few archers against a hero and grunts, 'illuse' the archers and attack your opponent with a huge army! More often than not, they'll run away in situations like those. I don't think it's imbalanced, but others may disagree. Thoughts?

I haven't really thought of that before - its probably worth something, if you can purchase many of them without a significant cooldown.

RedRagToAnOrc

09-01-2005, 8:37 AM

I haven't really thought of that before - its probably worth something, if you can purchase many of them without a significant cooldown.

You can't buy them from anywhere I don't think, but they don't have a cooldown, so you can use as many as you want to within as short a time as you can. They are very effective.

mirthrandir63

09-01-2005, 10:55 AM

Wand of lightning shield is fine!

No, it's really not. The only race that really has problems with LS that early is HU. 1 grunt, hell even a ghoul (watch madfrog replays) and a hero with a wand of ls can totally destroy a HU players economy. At least shaman LS comes at a stage in the game where you can dispell it.

Book of the Dead I agree with, but there is a simple counter to it - run away. This way, the book is wasted, and the skeletons will eventually die off, allowing for another attack, skeleton-free!

Most books of the dead are either used as a free surround on a hero (walk up next to them, hit the book = instant surround, or used as additional firepower/cannon fodder when pushing someone's base EARLY. Most people are going to be ill equipped to counter the sudden addition of all those additional units early on.

GenocideAlive

09-02-2005, 1:13 AM

No, it's really not. The only race that really has problems with LS that early is HU. 1 grunt, hell even a ghoul (watch madfrog replays) and a hero with a wand of ls can totally destroy a HU players economy. At least shaman LS comes at a stage in the game where you can dispell it.

Most books of the dead are either used as a free surround on a hero (walk up next to them, hit the book = instant surround, or used as additional firepower/cannon fodder when pushing someone's base EARLY. Most people are going to be ill equipped to counter the sudden addition of all those additional units early on.
Man, I hadn't heard that "Book of Free Exp Look at my weightlifting pictures of just me flexing at a camera" joke in quite a while. Gave me a good laugh.

But yes, it's fucking crazy. If by some broken method of insanity you manage to get a DK with a Wand, you're probably going to hose the HU. A fiend's large collision size coupled with a wand would pretty much stop the HU player midtech or force them to simply lose all economy.

The Book is just plain broken--6 additional units added on to a tier 1-2 fight will add giant DPS and tankage, completely turning tables. Compare it to say, a stone of mana. Not quite the same, is it? Not to mention the stupidity that if you're playing against a Night Elf, it's fucking useless at all stages of the game.

cole

09-02-2005, 3:26 PM

.
The Book is just plain broken--6 additional units .

Try 8, mr gosu.

Kreepre

09-02-2005, 8:14 PM

You can't buy them from anywhere I don't think, but they don't have a cooldown, so you can use as many as you want to within as short a time as you can. They are very effective.

the 'marketplace' building is supposed to sell any item in the game ur playing that has been either picked up or purchased. im not such which it is but u may be able to buy a wand that way. and u people say that the book of the dead is 'the book of free expo' but there alrdy is one

Silent-Ninja

09-03-2005, 1:29 PM

I Dono About You Guys But It Would Be Really Awsome For The Hero To Be Able To Go Beyond :cool: lvl 10 :)

GenocideAlive

09-03-2005, 3:20 PM

the 'marketplace' building is supposed to sell any item in the game ur playing that has been either picked up or purchased. im not such which it is but u may be able to buy a wand that way. and u people say that the book of the dead is 'the book of free expo' but there alrdy is one
I think they removed it from all the maps because it was a little broken. If you creeped a Book of the Dead right before tier 2 and went and bought the other one, you could pretty much screw over your opponent right there. Use one, attack. Then when the other cools down, use it.

Or a HU player creeps a Wand of Lightning Shield and it appears at the Marketplace--the HU just bought one for his opponent. Same with the Potion of Restoration or whatever...a DK with one of those is pretty sick. He can abuse the hell out of Coils and tank a lot of damage. Same with those little seeing traps that Witch Doctors drop. You can pretty much see the entire map.

Yoda

09-03-2005, 9:03 PM

I Dono About You Guys But It Would Be Really Awsome For The Hero To Be Able To Go Beyond :cool: lvl 10 :)

That would make the heroes too powerful, and the game really imbalanced from them. You can get past Level 10 in some custom games, though.

mirthrandir63

09-05-2005, 11:32 PM

I think they removed it from all the maps because it was a little broken. If you creeped a Book of the Dead right before tier 2 and went and bought the other one, you could pretty much screw over your opponent right there. Use one, attack. Then when the other cools down, use it.

Or a HU player creeps a Wand of Lightning Shield and it appears at the Marketplace--the HU just bought one for his opponent. Same with the Potion of Restoration or whatever...a DK with one of those is pretty sick. He can abuse the hell out of Coils and tank a lot of damage. Same with those little seeing traps that Witch Doctors drop. You can pretty much see the entire map.
Market places have serious abuses in them but I'm not opposed to re-adding them in FFA maps. God the current map pool for almost every game type sucks pretty hard.

Echo Isles: Huuuuuuuge orc map.
Broken Shard: Broken. Very very broken.
Hell Fire: Like facing a demon hunter at every camp. Really shitty spawn points.

Then of course you have the more "minor" map flaws: ones that involve particular matchups. (HU on GW in general, cross map LT etc).

The 2v2 map pool isn't that much better. I'm still trying to figure out what blizzard was thinking in incorporating maps like rolling hills, or maps like stone cold moutain that have creepless expoes and green camps that drop tomes of experience. Shit maps like Predators aren't exaclty that much better.

Plus FFA maps are by and large boring. There's a distinct lact of red camp creeps on most maps and not having marketplaces kind of takes away end game content. Who gives a shit about balance in FFAs anyway, you're going to be cheesed in every possible way, might as well add some new things to keep it fresh.

Lordshadowbane

09-06-2005, 5:53 PM

Then of course you have the more "minor" map flaws: ones that involve particular matchups. (HU on GW in general, cross map LT etc).

.
I always thought gnoll wood= elf wood.

RedRagToAnOrc

09-07-2005, 11:11 AM

I always thought gnoll wood= elf wood.

Yeah, everyone says that Night-Elves are wonderful on Gnoll Wood. A closer inspection of my stats (about 95% played with Night-Elf) reveal that I have a win % of 45.5% on GW. Can someone explain to me why it's just not working for me?

Incidentally, I have stats of 14 - 4 on Broken Shard. Thoughts? :)

GenocideAlive

09-07-2005, 11:18 AM

cole

09-07-2005, 2:47 PM

Yeah, everyone says that Night-Elves are wonderful on Gnoll Wood. A closer inspection of my stats (about 95% played with Night-Elf) reveal that I have a win % of 45.5% on GW. Can someone explain to me why it's just not working for me?

Incidentally, I have stats of 14 - 4 on Broken Shard. Thoughts? :)

Your not a very good player? Seems to answer that question.

RedRagToAnOrc

09-07-2005, 3:43 PM

NE is so good on Gnoll Wood because they can mass expand and it's next-to-impossible to keep up with all of the places that they could expand at. I'd imagine that you don't use mass expanding as a strategy.

Thanks for providing a reason, Geno... and oh yeah, and I don't mass expand, I expand as and when (and often 2 or 3 minutes before) I need to.

Your not a very good player? Seems to answer that question.

Thanks for... insulting me?

mirthrandir63

09-07-2005, 3:59 PM

I always thought gnoll wood= elf wood.
It is. HU sucks donkeyballs on GW vs pretty much everybody ALL the time.

cole

09-07-2005, 7:00 PM

Just being honest redrag.

Lordshadowbane

09-07-2005, 8:12 PM

Orc has a decent advantage due to the easy creeping of shops w/ FS. However fountain creeping and tavern usage is in the elf's favor along with the giant sized map.

Broken shard has hard creeping spots which is hard for everyone except bear massing elves who use the rigged items.

GenocideAlive

09-08-2005, 3:31 PM

Actually, any map with a fountain on it automatically puts points in the Orc favor. ANY MAP.

cole

09-08-2005, 4:00 PM

Actually, any map with a fountain on it automatically puts points in the Orc favor. ANY MAP.

wrong. ne>>>>>>>>>orc on LT. And in most cases, hu>>>>orc LT.

GenocideAlive

09-08-2005, 5:40 PM

Um, I'm pretty sure LT is considered the quintessential HU map. If nothing else, it will at least tie NE for dominance. And if you'll go ahead and put an extra 20 seconds into reading for comprehension purposes, you'll see that I say

"any map with a fountain on it automatically puts points in the Orc favor".

Note I didn't say that it made Orcs the best on the map ever or that it was immediately an Orc dominated map. I simply posit that if it has a fountain on it, that fountain will work in the Orc's favor. Since fountains work on percentages, 2% of an 800HP grunt is 4HP/s. They also have to pay 100G for 3 grunts worth of healing. If the fount is there, they save a lot of money. Everybody else gets healing much slower, and for heroes that focus on healing powers (DK, for instance), their healing ability is less effective.

QED if you fight an Orc by a fountain, you're more than likely asking for trouble.

Lordshadowbane

09-08-2005, 6:00 PM

[QUOTE=GenocideAlive]"any map with a fountain on it automatically puts points in the Orc favor".
QUOTE]

Ie. Blademaster Fountain creep at Echoes.

Yoda

09-09-2005, 10:51 AM

I think that Seige Engines need a nerf. There is no one who should win a game by massing 20 of them, and sending them into someones base.

GenocideAlive

09-09-2005, 11:27 AM

Look for a flood of spam from Demon_Child and Prozerran claiming that they're balanced and huntress/archer harass with Shadowmeld is the key to beating them.

Yoda

09-10-2005, 1:02 AM

Look for a flood of spam from Demon_Child and Prozerran claiming that they're balanced and huntress/archer harass with Shadowmeld is the key to beating them.

Suppose its daytime? :shiftyl:

Dayoh

09-10-2005, 1:29 AM

GenocideAlive upload some replays of ur self any win or loss cause i want to see how good u are, u claim ur a lvl 40 right?

I think that Gnoll wood is elf wood theirs lots of hills and trees for the elves.

GenocideAlive

09-12-2005, 4:31 PM

An improvement in 1.19 is something like a "Nice, Tall Glass Button".

As in, if you want to diss someone or call into question their capability or credibility, when this button is pressed you first have to qualify YOUR capability or credibility as a basis to call THEIRS into question. If you're some 40% L22 with an inflated ego trying to act like you know something, or you're a wanna-be gosu with like 40 games played, then the game automatically shows a little yellow smiley face drinking a nice, tall glass of Shut The Fuck Up.

It sure would save me a lot of "1v1 i'll own you so bad", "give me a rematch, i'll beat you any map", and "nice dodge" remarks from L7s with Peon icons.

cole

09-12-2005, 5:07 PM

GenocideAlive

09-12-2005, 8:53 PM

They should have a button that squelches mass gamers that think theyre good. Oh wait they do.
Thanks, but "mass games" is all in your head. The AMM is designed to find a player-level based on how well you do against various opponents. Restarting simply pits you against lower-level opponents, yielding a better record. This works until you start getting matched against higher-leveled opponents that are more your level. This is why you restarted and refuse to play any more games, but what you laughably won't admit. :D

That's why the AMM was changed to be based around level and not records, so smurfing is only good for getting numbers, not levels. So you're 30-8, but only because you've played a bunch of L5s, L15s, and L25s. WTG, maybe you can drop down to 1st grade and beat out those noobs.

"rofl pwnt omg so 733t skillz at m4th1!! 2+3=5 omg mad amazing!1!!"

Let's examine your amazing skills. Or put more succinctly, your "record" that's obviously a blatant attempt at abusing the AMM for a number set:

You resign your first 7 games after <1 minute. No hero.

First real game your opponent resigns after 4 minutes. He's 37-51 overall.
The next game you play, your opponent resigns in <1 minute. No hero.
Next is a resign after 6 minutes, from an opponent 60-72 overall.
Next is a resign in <1 minute. No hero.
Next is an opponent 62-67.
Next is 66-52.
Next is 1-4.
Next is 112-115.
Next is 37-41.
Next is 51-45. Damn, that's twice you beat a winning record! 733t.
Next is 45-57.
Next is 338-339.
Next is someone who didn't play enough in the 48 hours after he made his account. I'm guessing NOT a winning record.
Next is 3-2.
Next is 147-128. Pwnt. Another winning record.
Another acct made but not played for the requisite 2 hours to keep it. I'm guessing another losing record.
Next is 25-26.
Next is 48-42.
Next is 7-6.
Next is 119-146. Awww. Snapped your 2-game winning record streak.
Next is 12-13.
Next is 121-106. Back in business, baby!
Next is 44-39. Streak: 2.
Next is 6-3. Streak: 3!!!
Next is 109-99. Streak: 4!!!!
Next is 332-323. Streak: 5, big baby!
Next is 27-23. Streak: 6! Awesome!
Next is 80-82. What a winning-record streak. 6 guys in a row!
Next is 70-67.
Next is 7-5.
Next is 59-56, but doesn't count, because you lose to him.
Next is 128-104.
Next is 8-7.
Next is 287-278, but you again lose.
Next is 5-2.
Next is 20-15, you lose.
Next is 402-397, an L34!! that you lose to. Gogo "mass gamers".

So, all that said, let's examine your record in terms of win-loss. This is, of course, not counting the games that you immediately quit in the beginning to get easier opponents.

Wins of defeated opponents: 1,705
Losses of defeated opponents: 2,066

Overall: 1,705-2,066

Wins of victorious opponents: 768
Losses of victorious opponents: 746

Overall: 768-746

So, you have a winning record against people that have a <50% record, but a losing record against people that have >50%. Seems to me you're good at beating noobs, and that's about it.

Where's my Nice, Tall Glass of STFU button?

Yoda

09-13-2005, 4:21 AM

Ok, I think I'll write down some ideas after a few games I just played

1) Cloak of Flames and Bladestorm do not stack
2) A Windwalking Blademaster should not be able to run through units, so its actually POSSIBLE to kill when its running away from your base after harrassment :rolleyes: (tier one).
3) Troll Batriders should do less damage to buildings. Its almost hilarious, sending in 9 of them and destroying their Tier 3 building and almost the rest of their base before they can respond.... nerf liquid fire maybe?
4) Human towers and seige engines need a nerf. If someone can win by massing only seige engines, then its not right.
5) The Spirit Walker should gain spell immunity, but lose etheral form so that it is much more an anti-caster. If it had both of them, it would be invunreble.
6) Mana Shield needs a buff so it is not constantly the last 3 points, maybe have spell immunity?
7) Ancient Protectors need to take up less space
8) Mana burn should be affected by hero spell resistance
9) Ground A-A all in all needs to be more effective - right now the only AA some players need is light air, eg hippogriths, wyverns
10) Night Elves and Orcs need a better scouting unit.
11) Dyrads should give more experience when killed
12) All summons should be less powerful
13) Ground seige needs to me more effective in general APART FROM Seige engines and mortar teams
14) The ARCHMAGE, DEMON HUNTER and DEATH KNIGHT are all made by far too often for their respective civs and need either a nerf, or buffing of the other heroes. I would say a buff of other heroes, in particular NE (because their other heroes are garbage).
15) Destroyers should be only an anti-caster, not antiair and anti-building as well.

cole

09-13-2005, 3:27 PM

Thanks, but "mass games" is all in your head. The AMM is designed to find a player-level based on how well you do against various opponents. Restarting simply pits you against lower-level opponents, yielding a better record. This works until you start getting matched against higher-leveled opponents that are more your level. This is why you restarted and refuse to play any more games, but what you laughably won't admit. :D

That's why the AMM was changed to be based around level and not records, so smurfing is only good for getting numbers, not levels. So you're 30-8, but only because you've played a bunch of L5s, L15s, and L25s. WTG, maybe you can drop down to 1st grade and beat out those noobs.

"rofl pwnt omg so 733t skillz at m4th1!! 2+3=5 omg mad amazing!1!!"

Let's examine your amazing skills. Or put more succinctly, your "record" that's obviously a blatant attempt at abusing the AMM for a number set:

You resign your first 7 games after <1 minute. No hero.

First real game your opponent resigns after 4 minutes. He's 37-51 overall.
The next game you play, your opponent resigns in <1 minute. No hero.
Next is a resign after 6 minutes, from an opponent 60-72 overall.
Next is a resign in <1 minute. No hero.
Next is an opponent 62-67.
Next is 66-52.
Next is 1-4.
Next is 112-115.
Next is 37-41.
Next is 51-45. Damn, that's twice you beat a winning record! 733t.
Next is 45-57.
Next is 338-339.
Next is someone who didn't play enough in the 48 hours after he made his account. I'm guessing NOT a winning record.
Next is 3-2.
Next is 147-128. Pwnt. Another winning record.
Another acct made but not played for the requisite 2 hours to keep it. I'm guessing another losing record.
Next is 25-26.
Next is 48-42.
Next is 7-6.
Next is 119-146. Awww. Snapped your 2-game winning record streak.
Next is 12-13.
Next is 121-106. Back in business, baby!
Next is 44-39. Streak: 2.
Next is 6-3. Streak: 3!!!
Next is 109-99. Streak: 4!!!!
Next is 332-323. Streak: 5, big baby!
Next is 27-23. Streak: 6! Awesome!
Next is 80-82. What a winning-record streak. 6 guys in a row!
Next is 70-67.
Next is 7-5.
Next is 59-56, but doesn't count, because you lose to him.
Next is 128-104.
Next is 8-7.
Next is 287-278, but you again lose.
Next is 5-2.
Next is 20-15, you lose.
Next is 402-397, an L34!! that you lose to. Gogo "mass gamers".

So, all that said, let's examine your record in terms of win-loss. This is, of course, not counting the games that you immediately quit in the beginning to get easier opponents.

Wins of defeated opponents: 1,705
Losses of defeated opponents: 2,066

Overall: 1,705-2,066

Wins of victorious opponents: 768
Losses of victorious opponents: 746

Overall: 768-746

So, you have a winning record against people that have a <50% record, but a losing record against people that have >50%. Seems to me you're good at beating noobs, and that's about it.

Where's my Nice, Tall Glass of STFU button?

Hey what happens when i hit the player statistic of your bnet acc? Lets see last 5 games played.. Level 20, level 20, level 20, level 20, and oh thats right level 20. Not a one of them with even a decent rec and most ending in you getting humiliated.

mirthrandir63

09-13-2005, 3:42 PM

Hey what happens when i hit the player statistic of your bnet acc? Lets see last 5 games played.. Level 20, level 20, level 20, level 20, and oh thats right level 20. Not a one of them with even a decent rec and most ending in you getting humiliated.
Can you read?

As of your posting the last 5 games on his account were (from the very same tab you read)

vs a lv29 (W)
vs a lv9 (W)
vs a lv37 (L)
vs a lv36 (W)
vs a lv40 (W)

How is one loss out of the 5 you mentioned represent the "most" of anything? More importantly, how are any of these players lv20?

Stop playing Warcraft and go back to Reader Rabbit. Seriously, it'll do you and the rest of the world more good.