Zerg vs BC rush on island maps...

[Jaguar_King]

Is there any way for Zerg to stop this on island maps without out-expanding the Terran player?

I'd like to know, the last time I tried this against a Zerg I lost (on Island Hop), but that was because he (the Zerg player I was playing against) had way more islands under his dominion than me...I just had 2 at the time. *looks for counterstrats*

[Cpt.Chronic]

Just zealot rush. Duh.

[Jaguar_King]

Just zealot rush. Duh.

"Fuck, you're stupid, and that's on top of being ignorant...a 1stupid 2ignorant 3fool you are. I even posted the definition of the word and you still don't get it. So no, I don't mean you "ignore many things about this game," although I'm sure that's true as well. What I mean is that (per the definition) you lack knowledge on the subject of StarCraft strategy.

1. stu·pid
adj.




Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2. ig·no·rant
adj.

Lacking education or knowledge.
3. fool
n.

One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding."

[Cpt.Chronic]

"Fuck, you're stupid, and that's on top of being ignorant...a 1stupid 2ignorant 3fool you are. I even posted the definition of the word and you still don't get it. So no, I don't mean you "ignore many things about this game," although I'm sure that's true as well. What I mean is that (per the definition) you lack knowledge on the subject of StarCraft strategy.

1. stu·pid
adj.





Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2. ig·no·rant
adj.

Lacking education or knowledge.
3. fool
n.

One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding."



Wow, nice original post.

[Jaguar_King]

Wow, nice original post.

yeah, it's exactly like yours. Maybe it told you something...

[Cpt.Chronic]

yeah, it's exactly like yours.
You don't say.:rolleyes:
Maybe it told you something...
Yeah, it tells me that you're unoriginal, uncreative, and when backed into a corner and proven an idiot, you can't even think of anything to defend yourself with so you use other people's ideas/posts and try to turn them on the original creator of the idea/post in some desperate attempt to save face.

I mean, do you actually expect anyone to give you advice after the way you have reacted to legitimate strategical advice in the past? Even if I were to give you good advice, you wouldn't listen, so I might as well post anything (i.e. "just zealot rush"), which you are just as likely to listen to (as in, you're not going to listen to my advice no matter what). Why even ask questions about strategy if you're not prepared to listen to the answers?

[Jaguar_King]

Actually, that was a (botched) attempt to tell you who has to be the stupidiest one out of the two.

Yes, you're right, judging from your latest posts I probably won't listen you.

Why should I bother listening someone who comes with "zealot rush" if we're talking about TvZ on island maps.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Becuz zealot rush teh unbeatablest statigie!!!!11

[Jaguar_King]

"NOOOOO!!!!"!124 I juST BEAT A PROTOSS NEWBIE USING ZLOT RUSH!!!·!$!! AND I GOT THE REPLAY ON IT, I'M SO l3337!!!!!!!!1111"

[Cpt.Chronic]

Wow, you're just full of originality aren't you?

[Jaguar_King]

but not as full of wisdom as you are.

Going by your advice I'll develop my zealot rushes in my BLATANT ZERG strategy on ISLAND MAPS.

[Cpt.Chronic]

I dunno what your problem is. Everyone knows zealot rush is the best zvt island map strat...

[Jaguar_King]

I dunno what your problem is. Everyone knows zealot rush is the best zvt island map strat...

actually, I never said it was a problem. You said it, and you're "quite the experienced player" so it has to work.
Plus you got some good replays under your wing just to prove yourself right.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Now you're starting to understand.

[Jaguar_King]

now who said this was understanding?

[Sikawtic]

Stop bickering you two, before I'm forced to pull out the ban cannon.

[Cpt.Chronic]

I didn't realize "bickering" was a bannable offense.

[MidnightGladius]

Can't you guys discuss this little misunderstanding through PMs? I actually entered this thread to find some information worth reading.

If anyone cares, any combination of dswarm, hydras, devies, and plague will work.

[Jaguar_King]

LOL Now, are you serious? D-swarm, hydras....in an island map?

[ReD_ICE]

isnt it funny how some ppl on this board almost ALWAYS get into verbal wars with others?

[MidnightGladius]

What's wrong with dswarm and hydras on island maps?

[Spartan-II]

isnt it funny how some ppl on this board almost ALWAYS get into verbal wars with others?

*Cough*Cpt.Chronic*Cough*

If you're over land, Midnights strategy will work fine. If you're over water, try Dev/Muta/Scourge.

[ReD_ICE]

since i dont play island maps much...my best guess would be mutal + lurker/ling drop...i dunno...just a guess...

[Jaguar_King]

What's wrong with dswarm and hydras on island maps?

Man, are you kidding me?

even assuming you're going to drop them somewhere, don't you think you need some air cover, maybe just in case Terran goes for valk and/or wraith support?

"Air superiority is key"

[Cpt.Chronic]

*Cough*Cpt.Chronic*Cough*


Who, me?:angel:

[claus]

Cpt.Chronic just shut up your just proving how stupid you are.

Jaguar_King could u have made alot of hydras

[Cpt.Chronic]

Claus please don't hurt my feelings. I'm fragile.

[Kingscrab]

Man, are you kidding me?

even assuming you're going to drop them somewhere, don't you think you need some air cover, maybe just in case Terran goes for valk and/or wraith support?

"Air superiority is key" Watching this banter is hillarious! Sounds like you've answered your own question, dude. Seriously Jaguar, are you truly looking for advice or just people to bicker with?

But by all means, continue... it's highly amusing. ;)

[Cpt.Chronic]

Man, are you kidding me?

even assuming you're going to drop them somewhere, don't you think you need some air cover, maybe just in case Terran goes for valk and/or wraith support?

"Air superiority is key"
Ok, here's my first serious post in this thread so look out! :rolleyes:

Basically, vs terran, you're not going to be able to have air superiority unless you have extremely good scourge micro, which I'm guessing you don't. Valks are just too powerful vs zerg and if combined with BC's there's almost no way you can win an air battle unless you have over twice his supply. Now with that said, you'll want to focus your game around drops. You might want to try an early lurk/ling drop to try to catch him off gaurd and burrow the lurks near his mineral line. If his mineral line is protected try to hit either his supply depots or tech buildings. After your first drop (or during it) is a good time to expand or even double expand if you do some good damage on the drop. In order for hydra/defiler to work on islands vs. BC's you're going to need a network of nydus canals so you can quickly transfer troops to whichever base is under attack and use darkswarm/plague to protect your defending hydras (you can even protect your drones with darkswarm). Then just go for big hydra/ling/defiler drops on his expos or main, but be sure to scout your path with a lone overlord beforehand so you don't run into his airforce. BC's are so slow that they will only be able to protect one of his bases at a time. When you do your drop, just cover his base in dark swarm and raze it to the ground. When/if the BC's come, plague them in combination with the swarms that are covering your hydra. You will obviously want consume researched so you can continue to cast darkswarm as well as plague.

Oh, and as zerg, you MUST outexpand the terran to win. If he outexpands you, there's really not much hope in winning the match on island or land maps.

[Sikawtic]

I didn't realize "bickering" was a bannable offense.It would be a temp ban, of course.

GJ on getting back on topic.

[Jaguar_King]

Watching this banter is hillarious! Sounds like you've answered your own question, dude.

Ehh...No. Actually (according to the first post in this thread) my original question was if there was a real way for Zerg to win against Terran in this kind of maps, without outexpanding the Terran...


Seriously Jaguar, are you truly looking for advice or just people to bicker with?

what I said before...

Cpt.Chronic:
that does make sense, now.
why didn't you act like this from the start?

[Cpt.Chronic]

Cpt.Chronic:
that does make sense, now.
why didn't you act like this from the start?
Because of how you acted to every other piece of advice I have given you. I'm actually surprised you didn't start some huge argument over this as well.

[MidnightGladius]

Well, he said it was a BC rush, so therefore you'll be defending. Unless there's some sort of weird BC rush that focuses on defense...

In that case, you can have swarm and a fair amount of hydras when he gets his first few bcs out.

In my book, hydras aren't the game-winnner, they just hold off the BCs that are rushing you...supposedly.

A massive lurkling drop under swarm will do nicely, so long as you don't run into his bcs/valks.

And there is no way to have Zerg air superiority on island maps unless you have godly micro with your units or a huge population advantage. As Cpt.Chronic stated.

[ReD_ICE]

yes...agreeing with chronic and midnight...zerg is not the best race for going air-only...and mass hydra/lurker drop under swarm does work. here's something to consider: Have scourages around vital points of the map, (e.g. Expos), acting as obs so that u can keep track of where ur group of terran pain-in-the-ass air forces are...that way, its easier for ur ovies to follow a safe route and eventually reach ur destination...hehe

[MidnightGladius]

Yeah, scourge as scout actually works to some degree...pity their crappy line of sight.

[Jaguar_King]

Well, he said it was a BC rush, so therefore you'll be defending. Unless there's some sort of weird BC rush that focuses on defense...

In that case, you can have swarm and a fair amount of hydras when he gets his first few bcs out.

In my book, hydras aren't the game-winnner, they just hold off the BCs that are rushing you...supposedly.

Oh, I see now.

Yeah, I was assuming beforehand Terran was going straight for BCs on island maps ('cause I was told that it's the best thing to do with Terran in this kind of maps). Sorry for getting you confused.

See, last time I played Island Hop vs a Zerg player I lost because I couldn't expand too well, I only had two islands under control but he had practically all the other islands save of a few (1 or 2 I think).

So by the time he attacked, he had a few devourers, some guardians, and I was lacking resources and had only like 5 BCs and 4 gols and 2 valks as well as my 2 islands with a wall of turrets; he started attacking the turrets with his guardians, and I had no choice but to send my valk/BC fleet at him. Of course he sent his devourers in, too. While my valk/BC was distracted with his devourers, he sent a massive hydra/lurker drop with a good number of overlords, and he suceed because all my turrets and my few 4 goliats (with missile upgrade) were not enough.

So basically (I thought) I lost because he out-expanded me. And what I was trying to ask, was what if I had more islands, I thought I should have won...I played really bad that match (expanded way too slow), but I had better days in Island hop.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Yeah, I was assuming beforehand Terran was going straight for BCs on island maps ('cause I was told that it's the best thing to do with Terran in this kind of maps).

You're obviously listening to the wrong people. Going straight to BC's is a horrible idea.

[Jaguar_King]

You're obviously listening to the wrong people. Going straight to BC's is a horrible idea.

would you mind telling what's wrong with it?

It worked for me (vs protoss, actually) before

[Cpt.Chronic]

would you mind telling what's wrong with it?
Because if you get attacked you die.

[Jaguar_King]

nevermind...yeah, but I make at least some basic defense, gols usually work fine against Protoss, I think...

[MidnightGladius]

Terran island strats (correct me if I'm wrong, okay?):

vs Terran: 4goli drop (or 2tanks, but I prefer goli cause you can kill off his dropships and his scouting rax) followed either by more drops or 3port wraith. On maps with an expo, it is feasible to expo first and tech to golis to fight off his first drop.

vs Zerg: valks/wraiths to bcs/vessels patrolling around his island; expand like crazy and build up your force for one big attack. Wipe out his expos as soon as possible and keep him confined with valk air superiority. A little early-game wraith ovie harassing doesn't hurt.

[ares232]

Ok

Here's the anwer to ur cough* question:

Scout early( ASAP) with overlords or scourge to locate their main base.

NOTE:

The enemy comp or human player normally starts across form ur base.

Create several hydras, upgrade grooved spines, and muscular augments, build a greater spire and train devourers+scourge+Mutalisks. Build a defiler mound and create a couple of defilers for the use of Dark Swarm (spell).

In the map u used which is not a cough* "Money map", taking out key comp expansions is always a good idea. Build spore colonies around the expansions and use devourers and overlords to patrol around each island so they can locate battlecruisers with or without yamato gun.

If a battlecruiser patrols around ur defenses use Dark swarm (Defiler spell) over ur key hydralisks and defenders, (below the battlecruisers).

Upgrade all unit techs to 3 (Attacks for hydralisks and air units), (Zerg Carapace for air and ground), and assault the main Terran base, when ur ready.

Ok

Here's the anwer to ur cough* question:

Scout early( ASAP) with overlords or scourge to locate their main base.

NOTE:

The enemy comp or human player normally starts across form ur base.

Create several hydras, upgrade grooved spines, and muscular augments, build a greater spire and train devourers+scourge+Mutalisks. Build a defiler mound and create a couple of defilers for the use of Dark Swarm (spell).

In the map u used which is not a cough* "Money map", taking out key comp expansions is always a good idea. Build spore colonies around the expansions and use devourers and overlords to patrol around each island so they can locate battlecruisers with or without yamato gun.

If a battlecruiser patrols around ur defenses use Dark swarm (Defiler spell) over ur key hydralisks and defenders, (below the battlecruisers).

Upgrade all unit techs to 3 (Attacks for hydralisks and air units), (Zerg Carapace for air and ground), and assault the main Terran base, when ur ready.

Sorry about this answer: I quickly glanced at ur question

So here's ur main strategy:

Goliath+Marine+Medic+Wraith+Valkyrie+some Battlecruisers with yamato gun works nicely against spore colonies+sunken ones.

Valkyries/Wraiths/BCs for mutalisk/devourer teams
Goliaths+Marines+Medics for hydralisks and Zerg buildings
Use restoration on any ensnared or plagued unit.

Take out lower Zerg strain buildings first order (hydralisk den, spawning pool, spire, and up)

Hope that helps!

[ares232]

Just 1 more thing Jaguar_King:

If u use Terran v. Zerg u'll win if u use my ideas and Midnight's ideas
Here's a trick a saw in an interesting Terran V Zerg replay

Research Irrdiate:
Create two or more science vessels to scout and harass the Zerg
Use irradiate on (get this) the vessels themselves, they won't be damaged until the Zerg air units arrive: (This includes hydralisks, and defilers, because of dark swarm.)
Fly the science vessel(s) straight for the enemy workers (mining drones), with irradiate enabled on the vessels. Make several passes using patrol or move to irradiate all of their workers and kill them.
(this also works on crowds of Zerg air units)

Keeping the above strategy in mind:

Use science vessels alot against Zerg with EMP shockwave and Defensive Matrix on ur cruisers, and EMP shockwaves on Zerg queens+defilers, (in groups). This tends to be more frequently used by their Queens.

That should cover it!

[MidnightGladius]

Well, thanks for reviving a month-old thread with ideas on how to beat a computer. :/

The only good thing you mentioned in all of that was the sci vessel eraser.

[Alexisonfire]

oh well at least we get to remember chronic making jaguar king look like an idiot on the first page only good coming out of bringing this post bak up

[ares232]

Isn't the obvious reaction to see if the comps out built u to save it as replay?
I mean WTF learn from ur mistakes and save ur replays!

[Alexisonfire]

can someone lock this topic theres no point to playing comps there dumb as fucking hell (all tho i'm starting to think some people on this forum are just as dumb)

[Ahzz]

I've got nothing really to add on chronics "first wise post", except try to stop terrans every expand. Usually if terrans make quite fast bc, they mass expand and harass to try to keep the zerg busy, and possibly killing his exps or exp drones atleast. If terran is succesful on this, he should get on quite well. BUT. The Zerg will most likely make spire for scourge to destroy his drops, (and spire should be ready anyway), so I think it would really hard to execute for terran, unless he plays normally from the start, and makes bc only when the game reaches mid-end game, or possibly mid game