Normal Map, or Money Maps?

[Fronter]

What do you like more, money maps, or normal maps? I prefer actually normal maps, because with money maps it's all the same, basically just mass up, very little strategy. But when you have to build expansions, and money is not abundant, is when more strategy comes into play, if you have low money, you will be more careful with your moves. Units like Defilers, Ghosts, Medics, Valkaries, Corsaries and other units are rarely used in Money maps, for the reason that you can just mass produce something else. This is what I think about it...What shall be your?

[Aquarian]

Normal maps.It gives you more challenge and is not soo how to say...n-(offence remark)!
In money maps you don't need to go and explore for more resouces.THe resources are like,unlimited and can pit as many units to collec the stacked resources and the return cargo is instant.

[Aqo]

Things that require thinking are more fun than things that require no skill or thought, thus I choose normal maps (althought, I've only once played a money map for less than 20 seconds, I just entered a game, it started, I realized it's a money map and left. So I'm not sure if I should vote here...).

[loads_of_fun]

i play money maps but just for comp stomps

[psycho42b]

i play money maps but just for comp stomps
same here
I dont usually play normal maps for the reason that rpg's are more interesting

[AndyWiggn]

normal maps are all about click click stress. You can relax a bit more with money maps and actually think through a strategy. Adapt to the world instead of having a set build, set strat, set playstyle, and when that fails, you don't just lose, you have time to get back on your feet and change. There's a huge dynamic to money maps that people who play normal maps have no appreciation for.

[the_invisible]

normal because a typical money has to much money and no strategy
normal has actual strategy and defending more than 1 base and the chance of starving.

[Ultimo]

Money maps, all non-money maps suck.

[Cpt.Chronic]

normal maps are all about click click stress. You can relax a bit more with money maps
Yeah, maybe because on a normal map, the person you're playing against actually has some symbollance of skill where its basically all noobs that play money maps. So sure, its more relaxing because you know you're opponent is most likely going to suck.


and actually think through a strategy.
What, all 2 of them? Mass and try to kill his workers...ewww, ahhh, such strategy.

Adapt to the world
Adapt to the world?! You gotta be kidding me. Adapt to what world? All money maps are the same, bland, featurless 8 player maps that connect in the center. There's no adapting, just massing. Adapting is for normal maps that have differing terrain features, entrance types, and expansion locations/sizes.
instead of having a set build, set strat, set playstyle, and when that fails, you don't just lose, you have time to get back on your feet and change.
The reason you use a set build is because this game has been out so long and it has been proven that certain builds work better than others, and if you're playing a good player you're going to need to use one of these "best builds" in order to stay alive past 5 minutes because he will also be using a "best build." You don't need to worry about build order on a money map because your opponent will not have the knowledge of how to make you pay for your bad build order and his will probably be just as bad.

There's a huge dynamic to money maps that people who play normal maps have no appreciation for.
No there's not. I've played both extensively (like a fool, I started my SC career on money maps), and there are literally endless posibilities to how a game can be played out on a normal map, especially if you play on a variety of maps and use the differing terrain to your advantage. Normal maps are infinitely more dynamic than money maps.

[Fronter]

Very true Cpt.Chronic, I'm sorry if I like a challenge on Battle.net, it's just the way I am. Any newbie can acutally do good on a money map, put them on a normal map, they will surely crumble.

[hammocksleeper]

Very true Cpt.Chronic, I'm sorry if I like a challenge on Battle.net, it's just the way I am. Any newbie can acutally do good on a money map, put them on a normal map, they will surely crumble.

sure, but remember that not all people play starcraft to be the best. most of them play starcraft to have a good time, and different people have good times in different ways.

[Aqo]

sure, but remember that not all people play starcraft to be the best. most of them play starcraft to have a good time, and different people have good times in different ways.
But that's what we're discussing here isn't it? What's everyone's way of having fun.

Some enjoy thinking hard, implementing tactics, planning ahead, and in the end hoping the hard work to pay off as the 'Victory' reward, which is rather symbolic to the fact that you were able to defeat another player.

Others, enjoy clicking buttons and seeing how their game starts lagging because of too many units appearing on the screen at the same time.

[ReD_ICE]

i think money maps are "fun" for most noobs...and require no strategic playing whatsoever. "Normal" maps, or what I'd like to call progamer maps are the ones that can really challenge the player's tactics, micro skillz, macro, and such. personally, i go for "normal" maps

[Fronter]

But that's what we're discussing here isn't it? What's everyone's way of having fun.

Some enjoy thinking hard, implementing tactics, planning ahead, and in the end hoping the hard work to pay off as the 'Victory' reward, which is rather symbolic to the fact that you were able to defeat another player.

Others, enjoy clicking buttons and seeing how their game starts lagging because of too many units appearing on the screen at the same time.I agree 100% :D

ReD_ICE: Yes, they are probably fun for noobies, and management is low... So it is basically anything but Strategy.

But everone does indeed have their own opinion is fun, but I think using Strategy, and having a challenge is fun, sorry is that is weird for some people. But I bought this game because it is a strategy game.

[Aqo]

-edit-

Nevermind... misread that post...

[Fronter]

Indeed...

[AndyWiggn]

Yeah, maybe because on a normal map, the person you're playing against actually has some symbollance of skill where its basically all noobs that play money maps. So sure, its more relaxing because you know you're opponent is most likely going to suck.

I totally understand this mentality. (Note: I'm mostly just referring to BGH, not fastest...) Because you do not understand money maps or the strategy used within them, you assume everyone is newbie.


What, all 2 of them? Mass and try to kill his workers...ewww, ahhh, such strategy.

People mass yes. And any reasonably good player knows there are extremely low-cost methods to counter any massed unit. The game is all about counters. People make something and you counter it. I'm sure you've played money maps and gotten plowed by someone's mass... And if you knew how to counter it, maybe you wouldn't have such negative emotions about money maps.


Adapt to the world?! You gotta be kidding me. Adapt to what world? All money maps are the same, bland, featurless 8 player maps that connect in the center. There's no adapting, just massing. Adapting is for normal maps that have differing terrain features, entrance types, and expansion locations/sizes.

Please don't take what I say out of context. I realize this is a heated issue for you, but at least read to the end of a thought before you interpret it.


The reason you use a set build is because this game has been out so long and it has been proven that certain builds work better than others, and if you're playing a good player you're going to need to use one of these "best builds" in order to stay alive past 5 minutes because he will also be using a "best build." You don't need to worry about build order on a money map because your opponent will not have the knowledge of how to make you pay for your bad build order and his will probably be just as bad.

Look, I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. They're different games entirely. At the risk of sounding arguatory, I think of normal games as more muscle memory. 1 leads to 2 leads to 3. It's all automatic because as you say, there are best builds. Money require much more >>long term<< thinking and patience. Adaptation upon adaptation. With all that money you can switch quickly from mostly tanks and gols to mostly BC and wraith in a matter of minutes and then the opponent needs to alter their units to counter that change. You have to be able to defend yourself from anything and defeat any defence the game is capable of producing. There is a lot more skill in that than you're giving it credit for.


In some ways normal games are just plain easier. You can watch a few replays, pick up some of your "best strats" and do fine in a normal game. Just as you can mass a unit on a money map. Think of it like button mashing in a fighting game. A novice will kill you with buttom mashing if you suck at the game, but if you know the game, learn the counters and moves of the game, that buttom masher becomes nothing. Most people get plowed over by mass. It's more than they're able to handle. Countering 200 supply worth of units rather than 20 supply is borderline impossible for some people. So they retreat back to their normal games and label all money mappers newbies.

A newbie will kill you not because it's a newbie game, but because you are a newbie to that game.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Because you do not understand money maps or the strategy used within them, you assume everyone is newbie.

I'm sure you've played money maps and gotten plowed by someone's mass... And if you knew how to counter it, maybe you wouldn't have such negative emotions about money maps.

In some ways normal games are just plain easier. You can watch a few replays, pick up some of your "best strats" and do fine in a normal game.

Most people get plowed over by mass. It's more than they're able to handle. Countering 200 supply worth of units rather than 20 supply is borderline impossible for some people.

A newbie will kill you not because it's a newbie game, but because you are a newbie to that game.

Since you seem to think I'm some kind of newbie that only plays normal maps because I can't handle money maps, I challenge you to the money map of your choice (even though I NEVER play them). Also, since normal maps are "just plain easier," I'm sure you wouldn't mind 1v1'ing me on a normal map. So what do you say? 1 game on each map?

[Aqo]

Oh that sounds interesting, make sure to save replays and post em' here!

[Cpt.Chronic]

Why?
Programming skills got absolutely nothing to do with playing melee, I can assure you that over 95% of the best melee players don't even speak C.

If at all, normal maps should be called melee maps and money maps should be called rigged maps.
progamer =/= programmer

progamer or pro gamer = a gamer that is a pro; and pros play regular melee maps.

[AndyWiggn]

Since you seem to think I'm some kind of newbie that only plays normal maps because I can't handle money maps, I challenge you to the money map of your choice (even though I NEVER play them). Also, since normal maps are "just plain easier," I'm sure you wouldn't mind 1v1'ing me on a normal map. So what do you say? 1 game on each map?

Relax el capitan. I will forfeit to you on both counts, you may put your ruler away and pull up your pants.

We all know your cookie cutter "best builds" from normal maps will work just fine on money maps. And the game will last no longer than a game on any normal map. Fact of the matter is I don't do 1v1s just for that reason. Maybe you don't get into the real strategy of it unless you're facing more than one opponent. (Or as you're reading it, "dodge")

I only play sc anymore for the politics and strategy of huge, long games. And yes, while I didn't mean to call you a newbie in my previous post, I will call you a newbie of those. Feel free to join one of my FFA BGH's or 2v2v2v2's I make nightly on USEAST if you want to experience it. Though I can tell you've already got blinders on, so this is mostly directed at other readers who aren't completely closed to the idea that there is another different, but not necessarily "newbie" skillset involved in 'money' maps.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Nice dodge. You sure can dish the insults out, but when it comes to backing them up you show your true colors: yellow and yellow.

And cookie cutter build orders aren't meant to win you the game super fast or something. Their main point is to get a good economy going while at the same time minimizing your own risk of losing the game in the opening minutes. Like when I go 1 gate goons-->robo bay-->fast observers...I don't do that so I'll win superfast (like you seem to imply), I do it so that I can see what strat the terran is going to do, and adapt accordingly. It also helps to prevent getting contained early on by mines and allows for an early shuttle, which then allows you to expand without having to worry about being cliffed. At the same time, you won't want to do that build if you scout the terran directly next you (i.e. 12 v 3 on LT) because the terran could do a fast rine/tank rush and overpower your 1 gate goons.

Money maps have none of these intracacies because the people that play them do not think strategically, rather they just think, "build, turtle, build, turtle, etc..." and a lot of the times don't even adjust to how their opponent is playing, nor would they even know how to. Generally, money mappers don't even know basic unit counters like if a terran goes mass m&m most money mappers wouldn't even know that the counter to that is high templars with storm.

[Fronter]

Alright, masses is a terrible strategy, the game Starcraft is a Strategic game, so why not use strategy?

[AndyWiggn]

Alright, masses is a terrible strategy, the game Starcraft is a Strategic game, so why not use strategy?

I tend to believe the people that say massing is a terrible strategy, simply do not know how to counter it. If you cannot handle that many units, you think it's a bad strategy when really it's just your own shortcoming.

Mass isn't a strategy at all, it's the game played on a grander scale. Someone attacks you with 6 goons and 6 zealots, you can counter with a couple tanks and a couple vultures. Someone floods you with 40 goons and 40 zealots and 6 carr, you're going to need something besides tanks and vultures. and you're going to need to micro it pretty heavily.

I hate to make it sound like you're scared of such a mismatch, but that's how I feel about this. You put it down so harshly, you believe in it so strongly because you fear it. You feel it's unfair for the button masher to win a game simply because you do not know the counters. What bothers you about money maps is that people who don't use strategy can kill you. That's not a fault of the game type, or even the guy that killed you.

Money maps have none of these intracacies because the people that play them do not think strategically, rather they just think, "build, turtle, build, turtle, etc..." and a lot of the times don't even adjust to how their opponent is playing, nor would they even know how to.

I'll agree with that. It is difficult to find a worthwhile opponent sometimes.

[Fronter]

I am not scared of massing, yet you are of Strategy. If someone masses, they tend to use one units, or something that stays in it's rang, Dragoons, Zealots can easilyly be countered with Battlecrusiers, Carriries and Arbiters can easily be counted with Valkiries, and not to mention Science Vessels to EMP, so it weakens. Alot of Valkiries can own Carriries, because they fact that they have a wdie-spread damage.

It is very easy to counter, defending is way easier than offence, Considering the fact that most human players are smart enough to counter, massing is not always the best route.

The money maps have no expansions, thus requering one base to protect, very easy. Yet if there are normal maps, there tend to be expansions, so you have to be good, and manage to protect both. Yet on Money Maps, you just protect one base. Very Simple.

[AndyWiggn]

The money maps have no expansions, thus requering one base to protect, very easy. Yet if there are normal maps, there tend to be expansions, so you have to be good, and manage to protect both. Yet on Money Maps, you just protect one base. Very Simple.

Who are you kidding? Try winning a 8 player FFA BGH with one base. That's pretty freaking ridiculous. You're generalizing something you know nothing about. Or maybe your money experiences are inclusive to FASTEST or some crap. In fact you must be. I don't profess to know anything about those games. Putting 100 min patches next to your starting base always felt more like an UMS than a sc game.

[Fronter]

I've sadly played a money map, and it is rather easy, everyone there was not good enough to do anything, all they did was built fifty Warpgates, very easy to get rid of, I understand alot of Gates, but alot of them had alot of idle ones, very easy to get rid of. Though I did not win, because some people leave, I still mananged to fight of easy attacks from the Zerg and Protoss. UMS games are my favorite, and I don't consider any game with building or harvesting alot really a UMS, though some may be. UMS maps are better than melee maps because you can create some pretty cool scenarios, but when I play a UMS map, I want there to be as small amount as harvesting as possible, which alot have. I will play games like Cat & Mouse, which if you are the mouse, you have to harvest, that is fine with me, because it isn't melee. Personally, I think melee is boring, I can beat alot of people, but I'd just rather play something like Kerrigan's Demise, or another good UMS.

[Ecthelion]

Normal maps are better simply for the fact that they are a challenge. In the world of video games, the anethema of experienced players is a game with no challenge. Money maps also violate rule number 2, being pointless (kinda like Pokemon). These are the two golden rules that separate the above-average games from die Goulashsuppe of games.

[AndyWiggn]

I guess all I can say is you guys play the wrong money maps. Try some 8 player FFA BGH. There's a lot of strategy in them.

[Fronter]

I guess all I can say is you guys play the wrong money maps. Try some 8 player FFA BGH. There's a lot of strategy in them.I never did an eight player Free for All, but I would think that would involve more strategy then the average money map, with eight people there needs to be some strategy.

But the main reason why I like normal maps is because the fact that if you run out of money, alot of Strategy is involed, you usally become paranoid about your troops, then cheap units like Observers, Defiliers, Valkaries are used, because when you have alot of money, are you really going to need them that much?

[AndyWiggn]

Well, at least in the games I play, there is a fear of running out of money, it's just not a permanent situation. Money, (usually vespene) becomes short and you're stuck having to defend using units that use mostly spane or mostly minerals, depending on what you're out of. There's also the issue of being able to produce a force large enough to defend in a very short amount of time. You could have all the money in the world, but if your base only has a couple hatch and you just lost all your units to a nuke you didn't hear or someone's lurk/swarm or mass storm defense, you've got to figure out a quick way to build a defense against the inevitable counterattack and perhaps try to delay the coming army a few extra seconds.

Here's a scenario I'm well aquainted with:
You're terran, you've just killed the second to the last guy, but not before he got your resources down and ate up half your base and most of your units. Now you've got a turret across the map telling you you've got a fleet of carrier coming your way from that turtle that you pretty much forgot about.

Now the best strategy in this situation is to put up a semi reasonable fight for that base. Pop out some gols, maybe a couple valks, bunkers (anything that will take hits and builds fast), build some turrets, lock some carr down. You're pretty much boned. But While you put up a little fight in that base, across the map you're building a new base and massing wraith as quickly as you can. Is your supply in supply depots and dying quickly to the carr or did you build mass command centers which are all fleeing now in seperate directions, thereby allowing some to escape and some to act as fodder. The carrier guy thinks he's won, but you've now got 2 groups of wraith and a couple scanners that will make short work of his carr and the skeleton of a base that will soon fill out and win you the game.

Of course he could have had the rest of the map scouted, but if you thought he was any good, you probably wouldn't have wasted everything you have on that second to last guy, you would have used that guy to help you take him down.

Working together without alliances is a strategy I do >not< tend to think is associated with normal games. Allowing someone to gain a false sense of superiority enough so that they leave you alone long enough to rebuild. Being able to pursuade someone to attack someone else while at the same time playing as though you're much weaker and shouldn't be considered a threat is not always easy. Sometimes the dumber the person, the harder the pursuation -- and that has to be factored in.

Knowing when you need to kill the weaker of the 2 first and when you need to use that weaker player to help you take down a stronger opponent...

I usually call this "political starcraft" (though I should probably think of a better label for it). The strategies lie not only in the gameplay but in the pursuations and deceptions.

[Ecthelion]

I gotta say, your probably right. An 8 Player FFA would require a good bit of strategy. Still, I always liked the normal maps better.

[Fronter]

Never really though of it that way before. And yes, people tend to not what to allie on normal maps... But even if someone proposes an alliance with me, I reget it, I hate being relying on someone else. Which tends to kill me first.

[Sikawtic]

Money maps are stupid... unlimited resources? at a quicker rate!? blasphemy.
More strategy? right out lie...

At least with Normal maps you can't create/recreate vast armies repeatedly... and it's just crazy if you toss>d. archon...

I voted normal btw.

[Fronter]

I like having low resources around, the less money you have, the smarter you will play.

[AndyWiggn]

Money maps are stupid... unlimited resources? at a quicker rate!? blasphemy.
More strategy? right out lie...

At least with Normal maps you can't create/recreate vast armies repeatedly... and it's just crazy if you toss>d. archon...

Longer games? Control over income rate vs control over finite resources? create recreate vast armies repeatedly... is a bad thing? You're thinking having a vast army is stupid? Why? Is it too much? Do you think you wouldn't be able to control that army? Do you think that you would be unable to stop that army? Why is it crazy? You think toss d is too good? Balance issues that arise because of it? Elaborate?

[Aqo]

Longer games?
Causes leavers to have a reason for their name.

Control over income rate vs control over finite resources?
Ugh? In money maps, the money just goes in fast, your only choice is how much workers you're gonna spend on it. On normal maps, you have to expand and deal control over different income, in different places, with different bases, and different attacks from the enemy - much more works to defend your income.

create recreate vast armies repeatedly... is a bad thing?
Well, yeah, you reach the unit cap too fast and than start having tons of resources that are ready to be paid on new units, so that you don't care if units die since you'll have new once right away (unless you're a noob of course).

Do you think you wouldn't be able to control that army?
Ugh... yes. Do you? There's a limit to how fast your hand moves.

Do you think that you would be unable to stop that army?
No. You're having one yourself as well.

(I'm bored so I'm answering questions that weren't directed at me, ignore this post if you want)

[AndyWiggn]

Ugh? In money maps, the money just goes in fast, your only choice is how much workers you're gonna spend on it. On normal maps, you have to expand and deal control over different income, in different places, with different bases, and different attacks from the enemy - much more works to defend your income.

Meh, I'm gonna just go with the assumptiong that you guys are just comparing a "fastest" map to normal maps and stop arguing. I'm just gonna say you have misconceptions of money maps: FASTEST or something retarded like that is not in the same class as BGH.

[Cpt.Chronic]

BGH is better than FASTEST, that's for damn sure, but I'm not a fan of either.

[MidnightGladius]

BGH is extremely rigged for terran because your tanks can hit the natural mins on a seperate landform. When they try to counter, then you fly your tanks to his main mineral line, and so on and so forth.

Of course, this is impractical on FFA since everyone is focused on static, but I'm just pointing out the flaws.

[Fronter]

BGH is better than FASTEST maps, but it is still a map I hate. I like maps with low money, so more strategy comes into play. If you have vast infinite money, massing takes place, not very fun. But when you have low resources, you will be forced to repair, do Gurilla Warefare, etc. When you have a vast amount, it is shoot to kill.

If you have low money, you wil try something smart, like try to attack a weak point. But if you have a Massive Army, what's the point?

[MidnightGladius]

Erm... I think you typoed...

shoot to kill

Unless you're doing something weird, shouldn't you always be shooting to kill?

[Fronter]

What I mean by shoot to kill, you don't try to avoid some battles you might lose. If you have let's say four Battlecrusier against six scouts, and some carrires, you will lose, but if you are high on money, you will just let them die. If you are low on money, you will try to retreat them and repair them, that is what I mean.

[ReD_ICE]

Reply to Fronter:
Actually...ur idea is half right, but i have something to say. Playing maps like BGH doesn't mean you cant do strats and tacs just becuz there's a large supply of resources available. And since when could you mass micro? That's what micro skillz r all about. It becomes harder and harder as you have more units to control, and once u have mastered mass-microing, then an improvement has definitely been accomplished. Unless i'm missing something here, you can try smart things on maps of any limit of resources.

[AndyWiggn]

What I mean by shoot to kill, you don't try to avoid some battles you might lose. If you have let's say four Battlecrusier against six scouts, and some carrires, you will lose, but if you are high on money, you will just let them die. If you are low on money, you will try to retreat them and repair them, that is what I mean.

On BGH you have a choice to let them die to delay the carr/scouts or to run with them and try to save them. Building BCs takes time and losing them is not always as fickle as you make it sound. You could think of it as a matter of choice, you have a choice whether you let them die or not. While in non-money, if you let them die, you're probably pretty screwed.

Maybe you're stuck in a corner and don't have limitless resources. There is such a thing as limited resources on BGH. It doesn't mean exactly the same thing. Maybe you're not running out anytime soon, but if one person is gaining 3-5x more than you, they are going to have a significant advantage.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Reply to Fronter:
Actually...ur idea is half right, but i have something to say. Playing maps like BGH doesn't mean you cant do strats and tacs just becuz there's a large supply of resources available. And since when could you mass micro? That's what micro skillz r all about. It becomes harder and harder as you have more units to control, and once u have mastered mass-microing, then an improvement has definitely been accomplished. Unless i'm missing something here, you can try smart things on maps of any limit of resources.
That's odd. I find it just as easy, if not easier to micro large amounts of units compared to small amounts-- it's just a different type of micro. It's also more important in most instances because if you are microing a mass of units, that mass will most likely be your entire army, so if they die, it will really set you back. Let's take a tvz situation for instance. I think it's easier to micro my units once I get above 100 supply and have a large force of m&m plus a few tanks and sci vessels. If I get lurk/ling/hydra attacked I will seige, spread marines just behind/next to tanks and d-matrix either the tanks or a couple rines that are on the frontline. D-matrix vs. a lurker attack can really change the outcome of the battle since so many shots will be wasted on your d-matrixed unit while your other units mop-up. Queing focus fire after your rines are spread also helps kill the lurks faster.

[MidnightGladius]

Wouldn't it be better to fall back, irradiate the lurkers, and fight on the ground you choose?

[Cpt.Chronic]

Wouldn't it be better to fall back, irradiate the lurkers, and fight on the ground you choose?
Not if you can win the battle. Plus, once you get around 100 supply if you don't attack you make it really hard on yourself because you allow the zerg to freely expand/drone pump and tech to ultras and/or dark swarm. Then moving out and attacking becomes MUCH more difficult. Honestly, you should be attacking before this point, but sometimes it's really difficult if they have good muta harrass.

[MidnightGladius]

Alright. Point taken.

[CreepColony]

I voted Normal Maps.

I practically grew up playing Starcraft... and these things werent around when I was younger, so normals just kind of stuck in my blood so to speak. Anyway, I've played money maps before, and they have a lot of distinct differences from normal maps. Money maps... its all about getting a lot of miners going ASAP, then massing up your armies. Sure, its kind of mindless, but its easy for any Starcraft player to get adapted to. This is why I think so many people play these maps and stick to them, because they see this inticing map written in bright colors in the map title of the server saying something like "$$$$WORLDS FASTEST$$$$" The giant pink and glittery letters compell them to join. "Lost Temple? Pfft."

Thats of course... only hypothetical. The first time I played a money map, I saw it sticking out like a sore thumb and just tried it out. I thought it was ok... but I was doing good my first try, so I thought there had to be something weird going on. Ah ha! I cought it. Money maps don't require as much strategy as normal maps, but there's still SOME strategy there. Normal maps put you more on a cut throat your in or your out kind of deal, and that kind of appeals to most Starcraft players. Its a lot more exciting knowing that this "M&M" rush might not conquor your opponent in one swift blow, and who knows what he has burried in the fog of war somewhere that might obliterate you while you're making your last ditch efforts with your rush? While money maps, you know exactly where he is, and you know he has those 32 hydras, 24 guards, and 12 devourers sitting right above the middle choke point. But, how can you counter that? You see, its all just a matter of taste.

This reminds me of the big "Aug vs No Aug" war in DeusEx. DeusEx multiplayer is an FPS game with "augs" which give you abilities like enhanced speed, cloaking, or bullet protection, etc. No aug... seems just like another faceless FPS game with guns. Well, just like now... each gametype has its own amount of strategy which appeals to different masses in the one community. Yeah, its hard for each side to get along because of what they believe, and I guess everyone just has to deal... heh.

[Dayoh]

they see this inticing map written in bright colors in the map title of the server saying something like "$$$$WORLDS FASTEST$$$$" The giant pink and glittery letters compell them to join.

Thats kinda what happened to me, I played one and i won so well it when from there. I host normal maps but u have to wait like 5 mins for a person and when they get on they are like " is this a money map".

What we need is a game night kinda thing, to get more people into normal maps and to have fun!

[Dark_IceDragon]

Money maps suck. the only strategy they require is picking which unit which unit works best for you. There was only one person I've ever seen who used more than 2 unit types in a money map.

The only thing money maps are good for is Bsing peeps stupid enough to trust everyone in a 7v1 comp stomp.

[Generic_Amateur]

Whee, first post ~

Anyway, I voted normal. Replays from programers still amaze me; I'm still a long way from Nada, I guess (=P). You rarely get enlightened money map players like AndyWiggn - but it's easier to find decent normal map players, so I guess that's the main reason why I play normal maps. I really like to learn and practise and stuff, and for that good players are a must.

I still get pwned by the Nada-wannabes in the Korean channel(?), though. T_T *needs to raise APM!!! >_<;;;*

[MidnightGladius]

Hmm...game night.

Good idea; I used to host this with my tpg friends on useast, but it died away (we got in some great games though, mostly 2v2s and 3FFA). Well, when I get back to the US and my decent computer, it sounds like a good idea. We just don't need people like Jaguar_King annoying everyone.

If you're serious about it, start a seperate thread and we can get a common time to get together.

[Dayoh]

I am serious but im not a pro or nothin :(
I used to play WC3 TFT serious and made it to lvl 24.
I mainly play SC for fun anwayz.

[AndyWiggn]

What we need is a game night kinda thing, to get more people into normal maps and to have fun!

I say you need a game night to get you all into a decent 2v2v2v2 or FFA on bgh ;-)

Intellegent discussion of strategy for these is hard to find. Too many people become mindless when they have more money than they're used to.

[Generic_Amateur]

Too many people become mindless when they have more money than they're used to.True, even in real life.

[MidnightGladius]

I'll have to agree with that one. Think Liu Erxiao for one.....poor guy.

[Fronter]

True, even in real life.But of course, very true indeed.